Lets just lay the cards out. Do you believe Griffin is still our savior?

[bradboyd80]

Bottom line: RGIII is a raw talent with fundamental flaws. Some hope to see it all come together (including me). But, some have decided that it will take too much time for it to come together (like me) and will hurt this team in the long run.

 

So what are these "fundamental" flaws that you see?  And please, be specific.  FTR, I would never insinuate that he's perfect.  he does have some things to work on (being more decisive for example).   

[Rskins06]

Cousins and McCoy didn't feel the same pressure, why? Because no team was scared of them. Cousins was given all day to throw, why? Because every defense had already seen what happens when you let Cousins throw - you get the ball back. McCoy, up until that Cowboys game was the same way. Colt could have played checkdown all day in the face of pressure, the Cowboys gameplan was to make Colt beat them. They, fortunately, never counted on the lame duck their offense was going to put up. Rest assured if any of these teams wanted to dial up pressure on these fools, it would have been ugly.

Do you really believe teams are afraid of RG3(I don't believe DC fear him any longer)?  What teams know is RG3 will hold the ball, he is not the threat he was in 2012.  Sorry, just don't buy that argument.  I believe the opposite, Colt and KC made pre-snap adjustments, especially when they saw where the pressure was coming from, made quick throws to overcome the blitz.  You don't see that with RG3, he doesn't seem to really see where the pressure is coming from and make adjustments, hell, he sat in the backfield the first drive of 2nd half and the pressure came right at him in the middle, all he did was backpedal and take a sack.  We didn't see any screens yesterday, not sure if they were called though, not sure RG3 would see it anyway as he always seems to be looking downfield trying to hit homeruns instead of taking what defense gives them.

[TheButler]

RG3 = great.... just a bad team. Not his fault. Needs more time. 30ish starts. 

 

Colt = bad because 1 int, would probably continue.....cause you said so. 1 start enough.

 

Cousins = failed miserably (focusing on turnovers, with no thought to the rest of his game). We've seen enough, won't get better with time. 7 starts. 

 

Maybe griff could work on the check downs seeing how the pressure is so intense on him alone. Maybe start with 6 yarders. I see your patience goes in only one direction. Griffin plays with the same team as the other 2.

[Snagletooth]

I like RG3, but it looks to me like he suffers near mental paralysis, if the first read isn't wide open.  Kind of like Moses looked on that play when he didn't even really come out of his stance.  

 

A QB has to make quick confident decisions.  He isn't doing that.  He can't play in the league that way.  Maybe he can regain some confidence and develop a Colt style of game over the remainder of the season, IF he can stay healthy.

[joeken24]

All I'm saying is a quarterback's performance is as much the result of how his own team plays, what the opponents give him as it is his own play.

 

He was drafted as a running QB with a mobile line that moves with him. For the first year he was great. Reckless but great. NO one can contest that. A freak injury because of his inexperience sliding and getting out of bounds and suddenly the entire foundation that was built was flawed.

 

Last year was a disaster because they tried to keep him in the pocket WITHOUT beefing up the line. He was a sitting duck back there with a line that averaged, what, 280? That was NEVER going to work no matter how healthy he was. That was the ultimate putting a square peg into a round hole. He got beaten and battered. You can say he held the ball, overthrew. Whatever. In my opinion he didn't have a chance from day 1. Having a terrible group of receiving options didn't help. Hell we have a grand total of 1 receiver from last year consistently seeing the field this year. TE is another story as Davis in his show me year was a complete fiasco, Paulsen was Paulsen and Reed was great until he got hurt. Essentially he had NO line NO checkdown options and No green light to run for his life.

 

This year they're still trying to keep him as a a pocket passer, assuming that more weapons will make a difference. Well what's the point of putting higher calibre weapons on a soldier if you're just going to drop him in the middle of a field with no protection? They tried to add some weight to the line, problem is the weight was on the bodies of sub-mediocre linemen. Instead of light guys getting pushed off their feet last year, now it's heavy guys getting pushed off their feet. 

 

Cousins and McCoy didn't feel the same pressure, why? Because no team was scared of them. Cousins was given all day to throw, why? Because every defense had already seen what happens when you let Cousins throw - you get the ball back. McCoy, up until that Cowboys game was the same way. Colt could have played checkdown all day in the face of pressure, the Cowboys gameplan was to make Colt beat them. They, fortunately, never counted on the lame duck their offense was going to put up. Rest assured if any of these teams wanted to dial up pressure on these fools, it would have been ugly.

 

I just think it's absurd comparing performances not just based on the defenses, but how the defenses plan. Why do you think RG3 is constantly under pressure? Because any DC is well aware that with a little bit of time RG3 can beat you in a dozen different ways. Same way why the best QBs are ALWAYS dealing with pressure. You never hear about the pressure Hoyer faces or Kyle Orton. They play soft and DARE them to beat them. Cousins was dared to win and he failed miserably. McCoy's INT in the first half in the Red Zone was an indication that he is very capable of doing them same. With that said, if the ceiling with your backups is only as high as the floor of your starting QB, maybe you should spend more time rooting him on instead of tearing him down.

In order to tear RGIII down, he would have to hear or read my point of view. Additionally, he would have to take it to heart. Of course that is not happening.  

 

So to my point:

 

RGIII gets pressure because he holds the ball too long. Its been documented and communicated by Gruden. RGIII seems to be more apt to make an unscheduled play than a schedule one. All those that believe RGIII is the future, is caught up in the unschedule flash plays and not the simple "cerebral" plays one should expect out of a franchise QB.

 

When RGIII shows a drastic improvement from his rookie scouting report, I'll change my opinion.

An example from his rookie scouting report: "Can be indecisive in deciding whether to scramble or find someone downfield. Pocket presence is average at best. Doesn't feel blindside pressure well".

 

These are intangibles that I'm not sure you can coach. You either have that "sixth sense" or you don't. Maybe I'm wrong, but RGIII will not play long without it.

[TheButler]

So what are these "fundamental" flaws that you see?  And please, be specific.  

 

Slow defensive recognition

Slow progressions

Falls awkwardly, leading to "freak injuries"

Throws off front foot often leading to off mark throws

Ball tends to sail away from target (in the direction of the run) during throws on the run

Runs back into pressure often

Doesn't naturally step up in the pocket to avoid pressure

Bad a pre snap

 

 

 

[Khun Kao]

I voted no.  Not because I don't believe Robert can't be a good QB, but "no" because I don't believe the Redskins will give him the chance.  The team has had a back-asswards way of doing things for so long that I have no confidence that they're going to suddenly start doing things right, and I believe that Robert will suffer and never reach his potential due to it.

 

I hope I'm wrong.

[PartyPosse]

Griff should totally concentrate more on checkdowns, problem is he did in week 1 and got flamed for it.

 

Cousins also has, what 8-10 games under his belt? You want to talk about regression? Dude went from potential first round trade bet to potential cut. He threw some BAD passes. Made some BAD decisions. RG3 may have made some bad decisions and thrown some bad passes, but not nearly as bad as what Cousins did in such a short period of time. There's not even a question of that.

 

Colt has been in the league for 5 years now. He wasn't good enough to beat out Brandon Weeden in Cleveland. To me that speaks volumes about his capabilities of leading a team.

 

Colt is like Cousins in that they can probably put up decent numbers when teams don't have a ton of time to prepare for them. 

 

As far your analysis on Cousins failing miserably because of my focus on turnovers and not on the rest of the game (which i assume means the positive things he did) That seems to be the status quo here for RG3 as well. Ask around and see how many people would be ok with giving him another shot at starting. Are you prepared to do that?

 

Cousins may get better over time, but not here. In case your memory is short, he was drafted the same year as RG3, has played games in all three years he's been in here. With the exception of the Cleveland game in 12, he has NOT started a game where I was left feeling like he could be the legitimate started longterm. He put up good numbers, no doubt, but did the things that left me leery. This coming from someone who was ELATED he was drafted by us. 

 

RG3 already proved in year one that he has what it takes, something neither Colt nor Cousins ever did. IMO everything he struggles with now is mental, something that can be changed. Talent... talent is something you cannot teach, you either have it or you don't.

[Koolblue13]

I have no faith in him.

[Rskins06]

Cousins may get better over time, but not here. In case your memory is short, he was drafted the same year as RG3, has played games in all three years he's been in here. With the exception of the Cleveland game in 12, he has NOT started a game where I was left feeling like he could be the legitimate started longterm. He put up good numbers, no doubt, but did the things that left me leery. This coming from someone who was ELATED he was drafted by us. 

 

RG3 already proved in year one that he has what it takes, something neither Colt nor Cousins ever did. IMO everything he struggles with now is mental, something that can be changed. Talent... talent is something you cannot teach, you either have it or you don't.

Colt was never truly given a shot at Cleveland (he was a Holmgren guy), so not really fair to throw him out like that, not to mention, he got destroyed by James Harrison and never started again for them.  He then went to the 49ers where they had Kapernick, no chance at starting there and then he comes here.  Do I think he is the long term answer, not sure, but probably not.  Do I think Cousins is the long term answer, not sure, but probably not.  I will give RG3 credit for year 1, but since then, do I think he is the long term answer, not sure, but probably not.  But, it is RG3s job to lose, if he can improve then great, if not, time to open up a true QB competition. 

[ThomasRoane]

The bad on Robert yesterday:

 

1.  The pick before half.

2.  Pre-determined reads on some of the zone read plays.  There were a couple of times where he made up his mind to run it instead of give it.  In the Zone-Read game the guidance for your QB is 'give to live!'  When in doubt, give it to the back. 

3.  Inability to function in a pocket is a concern and something he needs to improve upon.

4.  Related to #3, every QB gets sacked but he takes bad sacks.  He backpedals too much which puts the team in a long yardage situation.  Usually, they happen when he gets a rush in his face.  That's what every DC does to him and he needs to learn how to see past the defenders and slide to windows (like Drew Brees).  He had Reid running away from a defender over the middle on one sack and never saw him.

5.  The slide is better but now he needs to work on the timing.  If not for the bail out by the refs on that one where we got the roughing penalty he would've slid short of the first down. 

6.  Shoulda just ran it on that last play to Garcon.  Personally, I think he was gassed.  And that's understandable.  There's being in shape and then there's football shape.  Huge difference.

 

Having said all that there is no way you can put that loss on Robert.  Colt got the win vs the cowpies but Robert was far better in the first half when you compare them as starters; Cold had a defense with fresh legs that played out of their minds too.  Robert has the arm to stretch the defense and should be the starter from here on out.  The team needs to see if he can correct the little things that are holding him back from being an elite, franchise QB that is worth franchise type money.  He got the plays called quicker and got the team lined up with time to see the defense.  He made a couple of good audibles which shows he has a good idea of what to do. Would like to see him do that in the passing game now.

 

I'll continue to hold off until the end of the season but starting him was the right choice and keeping him in there the rest of the year is also the right move. 

[joeken24]

So what are these "fundamental" flaws that you see?  And please, be specific.  FTR, I would never insinuate that he's perfect.  he does have some things to work on (being more decisive for example).   

Gruden: "We just have to carry it over on the field and decisions have to be consistent at the quarterback position, especially when games are tight"

 

I have become motivated to put together a video that explains what I mean. I hope to have it in the coming days. Don't get me wrong, I want to see RGIII succeed. One, because I'm sick of losing. Two, because I don't want to see him fail and the team suffer as a result.

But I have to look at it realistically based on 20+ years of following this team.  Gruden mentioned the word "snake bitten".

That word is probably a house hold name for a Redskin fan - including me.

[Rskins06]

There is no doubt, RG3 will be the starter the rest of the season and rightfully so.  This team HAS to find out if he is a one hit wonder and the best of RG3 was left back in 2012 or he will improve and prove his value.

 

At this point, as stated above, I am on the fence and think the 2012 version of RG3 is gone.  Doesn't mean he can't prove everyone wrong and the only way to do that is something he has not done in his last 9 starts........WIN A GAME!!!

[joeken24]

Slow defensive recognition

Slow progressions

Falls awkwardly, leading to "freak injuries"

Throws off front foot often leading to off mark throws

Ball tends to sail away from target (in the direction of the run) during throws on the run

Runs back into pressure often

Doesn't naturally step up in the pocket to avoid pressure

Bad a pre snap

All true.

 

I found myself in the 2nd half watching how Bridgewater would climb the pocket when lanes opened up. He was still able to keep his eyes downfield and make the throw. He's a rookie.

 

I don't recall RGIII ever keeping his eyes down the field while manuevering in the pocket. RGIII has more of a panic type reaction to pressure. That is an indication that his confidence in the pocket is suspect.

[Hooper]

Right now, the game is just too fast for him at times. You can't wait for things to happen in this league and he constantly is.

 

Hope is the game slows down more and more each game.

 

If not... well, Jay didn't draft him. If he doesn't feel like RG3 is the answer, we'll know this offseason.

[PartyPosse]

Colt was never truly given a shot at Cleveland (he was a Holmgren guy), so not really fair to throw him out like that, not to mention, he got destroyed by James Harrison and never started again for them.  He then went to the 49ers where they had Kapernick, no chance at starting there and then he comes here.  Do I think he is the long term answer, not sure, but probably not.  Do I think Cousins is the long term answer, not sure, but probably not.  I will give RG3 credit for year 1, but since then, do I think he is the long term answer, not sure, but probably not.  But, it is RG3s job to lose, if he can improve then great, if not, time to open up a true QB competition. 

 

He had a shot. No other team seemed to think he was deserving either since he went for practically nothing to SF and then left on waivers altogether.

 

I do agree though that if he has the rest of the season to figure it out and shows no improvement then i will be more open to alternatives. But as of now the 2 games he's played he's looked like a pretty good QB who is at least deserving of a little faith, especially from all those Cousin-lovers who still refuse to eat crow for declaring Cousins as a better opportunity for wins.

[Hooper]

Sally Jenkins has a helluva quote in her latest bad article. 

 

“Honestly it’s not my decision,” Gruden said. “RGIII has been our quarterback for a long time since I’ve been here. He’s their guy, and I feel comfortable and confident with him back there.”

 

Edit: it's actually a quote from D Jax, that Sally made seem like a quote from Gruden. Insane.

[DogofWar1]

Sally Jenkins has a helluva quote in her latest bad article. 

 

“Honestly it’s not my decision,” Gruden said. “RGIII has been our quarterback for a long time since I’ve been here. He’s their guy, and I feel comfortable and confident with him back there.”

 

Edit: it's actually a quote from D Jax, that Sally made seem like a quote from Gruden. Insane.

 

It's from DJax?  I'm reading her article, and Jackson isn't mentioned anywhere.

 

I mean, I would not put it past a DC media-ite to make that mistake, but I want to double check where it's from.

[Cooleyfan1993]

It's from DJax?  I'm reading her article, and Jackson isn't mentioned anywhere.

 

I mean, I would not put it past a DC media-ite to make that mistake, but I want to double check where it's from.

DJAX said yesterday in his press conference after the game "he's their guy" or something to that effect, so i think sally jenkins just made a mistake when she said the quote was from gruden. not a big deal though, mistakes happen.

[Hooper]

Sally Jenkins has edited her article to attribute the quote to DeSean Jackson. It clearly wasn't a honest mistake if you read the original article and the edited version.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Sally Jenkins has edited her article to attribute the quote to DeSean Jackson. It clearly wasn't a honest mistake if you read the original article and the edited version.

why wouldnt that be an honest mistake? maybe she was thinking about jay gruden at the time that she was typing the article or something. would love to see both versions though

[DogofWar1]

Yeah, edit literally just happened like 2 minutes ago.

 

Now it's just awkward.  She talks about Gruden being evasive, then quotes Jackson.  It's disjointed.

 

I usually don't like to attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity, but in this case, to write the article the way she did, implying Gruden wasn't for Griffin, I'm inclined to say that she was at least being maliciously stupid.

[Gamebreaker]

Wanted to quote this because that's exactly how I feel. That's not to say that one day Griffin might not be the better of the three (he's supposed to have more potential after all!) but right now we just look more professional when Cousins or McCoy are under center.

 

How is this even remotely true? What does look "professional" even mean? 

 

McCoy had two delay of games, a too many players on the field penalty, and got a play wrong because he couldn't control the huddle and or get the play off in time. That looks "professional" to you? Cousins hangs his head everytime he throws an INT and can't read defenses post snap, but I guess he looks the part, right? 

 

I can't stand this nonsense. 

[DogofWar1]

Also, I think it's a bit unfair to praise Colt for last week, while attacking Griffin for this week.

 

They had similar games:

Colt: 25/30, 299 yards, 1 rush TD, 1 INT

Griffin: 18/28, 251 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

 

Moreover, Colt had only 3 scoring drives last week (2 TDs, 1 FG) during regulation, and one during overtime (FG), while RGIII led 5 scoring drives (3 TDs, 2 FGs) during regulation.

 

And as I've mentioned before, the defense played massively better last week than this one.  5 sacks v. Cowboys compared to 2 v. MINN.  2 turnovers v. Cowboys, compared to none v. MINN.

 

 

I like Colt.

 

I also do not believe Colt would have won yesterday, not if the defense gives up 29 points.  He has not shown enough for us to believe he would lead 5 scoring drives, or make fewer mistakes then Griffin did.  Do I think Colt would have played poorly?  No, but I think Griffin gave us the best chance to win, and while he didn't do enough, the majority of the blame falls on the defense.

[Gamebreaker]

Sally Jenkins has a helluva quote in her latest bad article. 

 

“Honestly it’s not my decision,” Gruden said. “RGIII has been our quarterback for a long time since I’ve been here. He’s their guy, and I feel comfortable and confident with him back there.”

 

Edit: it's actually a quote from D Jax, that Sally made seem like a quote from Gruden. Insane.

 

No one should be surprised that Sally made a mistake like that. She's a terrible writer, and doesn't really care to get things right when she's too busy running the team down.