Lets just lay the cards out. Do you believe Griffin is still our savior?

[pjfootballer]

Curious what defenses you consider "great" if not Arizona and Seattle lol.

Seattle is nowhere as formidable as last year. Stop looking at last year.

Arizona's defense has been tough, but I don't think I've heard anyone mention them in any elite category. I'll admit I haven't looked at the rankings. I got the Minnesota ranking from another post in this thread.

[skinpride1]

This would be why you're not a coach in the NFL. We were up 10-0 not 100-0. With 59 seconds and all our timeouts (I believe), why the hell would we not try to move into position for at least a fieldgoal? We were at our own 36... not our own 6. I'm willing to bet if they had run the ball or knelt it out, you would have complained about that to. This is hindsight coaching at its finest. And "screwed up once again"? You act like this was a Kirk Cousins type of bed ****ting...

dont worry we got Lots more Rg3 coming up....no I wouldn't have said a word if they ran the clock out..your full of it plenty of coaches would have run the clock out with 10-0 lead getting the ball back to start the second half...wow..your amazing ..truly amazing. .not to bright are ya.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

It doesn't matter what RG3 does as long as our D allows the other team to score more points.

I saw the return of soft coverage during the loss to the 3-5 Vikings. It seems that Haslett isn't capable of making adjustments and the opposing teams seem to easily read the D. That's just my opinion.

 

Within the context of winning a specific game, you are probably right. After sleeping on it, I now believe 3 TDs and 2 FGs should be enough to win most games, especially against a pretty good D on the road. 

 

However, it really DOES matter what Griffin does over the next 7 games in terms of understanding what we have in our QB. He won't be perfect, but he needs to start showing us that he can make big plays in big spots. His rookie year he seemed to always rise to the occasion in clutch situations (that late throw to Moss in the Giants road game, the late passes in the Cowboys Thanksgiving game, the key game-clinching completion to Garcon in the Giants home game, etc.). This year, in the biggest spots he's thrown a couple bad passes. I'm going to be really looking for that clutch play to come back to him or I'm going to be concerned that he's lost it. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

dont worry we got Lots more Rg3 coming up....no I wouldn't have said a word if they ran the clock out..your full of it plenty of coaches would have run the clock out with 10-0 lead getting the ball back to start the second half...wow..your amazing ..truly amazing. .not to bright are ya.

 

*Too

 

It's obvious who isn't bright around here...

 

Also, no coach should run the clock out with where we had the ball, our TOs remaining and the chance to increase the lead. That's ignorant. 

[DC9]

I think thats a big part of what people think they see or hate about him. Even when he does everything right he doesn't "look" like anyone else while doing it. Unconventional is a great word to use there, but I don't fault him for being unconventional as long as he makes progress and I saw that quite a bit yesterday, which a few head-scratchers thrown in there too.  

 

As I've said all along though, every play can't be a referendum on the kid. I think he's getting there but we are on our way to killing him before we have a chance to see if he does or not. 

 

Yeah, but at the same time "unconventional" leads to bad throws on 4th and 5.  Not setting your feet correctly, etc.

[skinpride1]

*Too

It's obvious who isn't bright around here... 3 time winning super bowl coach done it all the time...his name was Joe Gibbs...aren't too bright are ya.

Also, no coach should run the clock out with where we had the ball, our TOs remaining and the chance to increase the lead. That's ignorant.

*Too

It's obvious who isn't bright around here...

Also, no coach should run the clock out with where we had the ball, our TOs remaining and the chance to increase the lead. That's ignorant.

3 time super bowl winning coach done it all the time..his name was Joe Gibbs..

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Yeah, but at the same time "unconventional" leads to bad throws on 4th and 5.  Not setting your feet correctly, etc.

 

I think that was more just horrid all around lol but yeah

3 time super bowl winning coach done it all the time..his name was Joe Gibbs..

 

Unfortunately, its not 1984 anymore and a much different game with much different strategies. 

 

Also, I can play that silly game too...a 3 time SB winning coach tries to get his team the most points he can all the time...his name is Bill Belichick.

 

So that got us somewhere.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Ive woke up and seen the light...1st game back nothing has changed. ...almost had another play that twisted his leg like a pretzel and could have been a serious injury. .no pocket awareness. Just because I see what we have in Rg3..doesn't make me a bad fan..just a little smarter than you...

 

 

Let me assure you of something.  You are not smarter than me or anyone else that you have ever met.

[skinpride1]

I think that was more just horrid all around lol but yeah

Unfortunately, its not 1984 anymore and a much different game with much different strategies.

Also, I can play that silly game too...a 3 time SB winning coach tries to get his team the most points he can all the time...his name is Bill Belichick.

So that got us somewhere.

we dont have Tom Brady either lol..just dont like what im seeing from Griffin. .not at all...I hope gruden is a miracle worker and can turn Rg3 into a Nfl q.b. but I just got my doubts..I hope im proven wrong..but on other hand don't be disappointed when Rg3 just doesn't win many games..

Let me assure you of something. You are not smarter than me or anyone else that you have ever met.

just picking at you guys..

[TradeTheBeal!]

I agree, but hoping he does well and believing he is a franchise QB are two different things.

 

I am "on the record" that, barring a miraculous performance down the stretch, the franchise should look to go in a different direction at QB in the offseason.  I do not believe that RG can stay healthy long enough to realize his full potential.  I would be shocked if he can even finish this season, much less have a prolonged stretch of health and a 10-12 year career as an elite starter.  

 

Nevertheless, to come in here and gloat over the loss and trash the kid is just weak.  RG played hard and put up enough points to win the game.

[Duckus]

I have no idea if he is the "savior" but he is the best option we have right now. He is young and extremely talented.

 

The idea that we spend this off-season searching for a new QB via the draft and then throwing a new QB into this dumpster fire is madness. 

 

There are huge issues with this team that need addressing. We generally lack talent across the board.

[ConAir]

Kirk threw INT's instead of getting sacked.

I'm amazed at the thought that RG3 is a bigger problem then the o-l

I think the bigger problem is not the o-line. I read a very interesting article the other day about ball release time on qb's. Kirk seems to get rid of the ball a lot faster most of the time around 2.5 seconds this eliminates a lot of pass rush. RG3 likes to extend plays and that causes him to hold onto the ball for 3 to 4 seconds allowing more pass rushers to get home and get the sack. If Rg can learn to be more decisive and get that ball release time down it will help lower those sack totals.

[VRIEL1]

_{I will go back and read the comments in a moment, but I wanted to say my peace before others ideas and comments skewed my opinion. I'm done with RG3. Just because you throw millions of dollars at someone does not mean they are a "Franchise" QB. but we all know why he started, not because he was a better QB but because the team is spending so much money on him. No need to sit a million dollar QB and play your second or third stringer who gets paid pennies on the dollar. Snyder would lose sponsors.}

 

_{So we know what he have in QB's.}

_{RG3- only see's half the field and only knows part of the playbook. He holds onto the ball too long. Has great mobility but is also injury prone. Does not like the Spread Offense.}

_{Cousins- knows the playbook. Great pocket passer. Very little mobility. Throws INT's at bad times.}

_{McCoy- Great pocket passer. knows the playbook, slightly more mobile then Cousins.}

 

_{I totally agree with people who say you can't blame the loss against the Vikings on RG3, but ....you RG3 sympathizers need to judge all the QB's the same way then. It's funny to me that when RG3 has a terrible game, ie; 4 or 5 sacks and 1 INT it was because of the OL, WR, or lack of playing. RG3 needs time to develop. Cousins has a similar or better game and he sucks that's why he's the second stringer. Lest we forget RG3 has had 2 years of development and 2 summers and still sits well behind Cousins as a pocket passer, reading defenses, and changing plays. An RG3 fan said over the radio today RG3 is elite like Romo who throws 1 INT a game. Ok, well I hate Romo and hope to heck the Cowboys never get rid of him cause he sucks. But if your going to use that criteria then make sure you use the same for Cousins, ie; Cousins is elite cause of his 2-4 INT's a game like Payton Manning who last I heard was pretty close to leading the league in INT's per game.}

 

_{All I'm asking is for people to be honest about the QB's and judge all equally. I like RG3 because of his mobility and the "Spread" offense, however RG3 does not like the "Spread" supposedly. That is a problem as that is what makes him great. I like Cousins because of his pocket presence and his ability to change the play to something better usually. But he throws INT's in the 4th quarter when the team is 2 scores down and they need a come back. BOTH need to develop. RG3 needs to learn to stay in the pocket, learn the whole playbook, and read defenses. Cousins needs to stop trying so hard when the team is down and throwing INT's.}

 

_{Unfortunately I think both are equally good in different ways and both are equally bad in different ways. Both need developing however RG3 has had 2 yrs on field training and Cousins has had 6 games? Not quite fair to judge both equally if they both don't have equal playing time.}

 

_{McCoy is the anomaly. Maybe he sucked under the Browns horrible coaching staff, but then why didn't her flourish under the 49ers? He has said this is the best offensive system he likes but only got one game. I would have played him against the Vikes and Had RG3 come back after the break.}

[Rskins06]

Yesterday, our "franchise QB" had the ball with 3 minutes to play.  Regardless of what the Defense gave up (29 points), regardless they put up 26 points, RG3 had the ball in his hands at the end of the game with a chance to tie or win.  The offense was moving the ball pretty well up until that point.  Bottom line, he was unable to get them into FG position to at least tie the game.  A franchise QB finds a way to win that game.  He still has a lot to prove.

People can defend RG3 all they want, after the Eagle game, KC was destroyed on a thread because he was unable to go 20 yards and set up for a FG.  RG3 needs to be held to the same standard.  At that point in the game, the Defense didn't have anything to do with the inability for the offense to move the ball.

[bradboyd80]

 

_{So we know what he have in QB's.}

_{RG3- only see's half the field and only knows part of the playbook. He holds onto the ball too long. Has great mobility but is also injury prone. Does not like the Spread Offense.}

_{Cousins- knows the playbook. Great pocket passer. Very little mobility. Throws INT's at bad times.}

_{McCoy- Great pocket passer. knows the playbook, slightly more mobile then Cousins.}

 

_{All I'm asking is for people to be honest about the QB's and judge all equally. I like RG3 because of his mobility and the "Spread" offense, however RG3 does not like the "Spread" supposedly. That is a problem as that is what makes him great. I like Cousins because of his pocket presence and his ability to change the play to something better usually. But he throws INT's in the 4th quarter when the team is 2 scores down and they need a come back. BOTH need to develop. RG3 needs to learn to stay in the pocket, learn the whole playbook, and read defenses. Cousins needs to stop trying so hard when the team is down and throwing INT's.}

 

Do you have some inside knowledge that nobody else has? How do you know that RG3 only knows half the playbook and doesn't like the spread offense (I'm assuming you meant read option? Which even then, isn't true, as he said he would do whatever coach asked of him to help the team)? You like Cousins because of his ability to change the play at the line? Since when has he done that?  I remember several plays where the D would show an all out blitz and he didn't change the play, which subsequently resulted in a negative play.  And KC doesn't just throw INTs at bad times or when the team is down and he's trying to bring us back.   

Yesterday, our "franchise QB" had the ball with 3 minutes to play.  Regardless of what the Defense gave up (29 points), regardless they put up 26 points, RG3 had the ball in his hands at the end of the game with a chance to tie or win.  The offense was moving the ball pretty well up until that point.  Bottom line, he was unable to get them into FG position to at least tie the game.  A franchise QB finds a way to win that game.  He still has a lot to prove.

 

So every single QB that fails to drive the length of the field for a win is not a franchise QB?  I don't know the actual numbers, but I would be willing to bet money that guys like Manning, Rodgers, Brady, etc, aren't at 100% on a potential game winning drives.  They must not be "franchise QBs" either.  My god this fanbase is insane. 

[skinpride1]

Yesterday, our "franchise QB" had the ball with 3 minutes to play. Regardless of what the Defense gave up (29 points), regardless they put up 26 points, RG3 had the ball in his hands at the end of the game with a chance to tie or win. The offense was moving the ball pretty well up until that point. Bottom line, he was unable to get them into FG position to at least tie the game. A franchise QB finds a way to win that game. He still has a lot to prove.

People can defend RG3 all they want, after the Eagle game, KC was destroyed on a thread because he was unable to go 20 yards and set up for a FG. RG3 needs to be held to the same standard. At that point in the game, the Defense didn't have anything to do with the inability for the offense to move the ball.

Bingo...exactly how I see it.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Yesterday, our "franchise QB" had the ball with 3 minutes to play.  Regardless of what the Defense gave up (29 points), regardless they put up 26 points, RG3 had the ball in his hands at the end of the game with a chance to tie or win.  The offense was moving the ball pretty well up until that point.  Bottom line, he was unable to get them into FG position to at least tie the game.  A franchise QB finds a way to win that game.  He still has a lot to prove.

People can defend RG3 all they want, after the Eagle game, KC was destroyed on a thread because he was unable to go 20 yards and set up for a FG.  RG3 needs to be held to the same standard.  At that point in the game, the Defense didn't have anything to do with the inability for the offense to move the ball.

 

Couple of key points here.

 

1.  RGs final drive covered 23 yards.  Had he been gifted with the field position Cousins had in the Eagles game, the drive would have been successful and the game goes to overtime.

 

2.  Nobody was trashing Kirk after his career highlight performance against the Eagles.  People started trashing him after his 5 turnover performance against the Giants and rightly so.

[VRIEL1]

 

Do you have some inside knowledge that nobody else has? How do you know that RG3 only knows half the playbook and doesn't like the spread offense (I'm assuming you meant read option? Which even then, isn't true, as he said he would do whatever coach asked of him to help the team)? You like Cousins because of his ability to change the play at the line? Since when has he done that?  I remember several plays where the D would show an all out blitz and he didn't change the play, which subsequently resulted in a negative play.  And KC doesn't just throw INTs at bad times or when the team is down and he's trying to bring us back.   

So every single QB that fails to drive the length of the field for a win is not a franchise QB?  I don't know the actual numbers, but I would be willing to bet money that guys like Manning, Rodgers, Brady, etc, aren't at 100% on a potential game winning drives.  They must not be "franchise QBs" either.  My god this fanbase is insane. 

 

 

Ok, I exaggerated the "half the playbook" comment. But it's telling when your HC Gruden says "Now I can open up the playbook more", when Cousins started taking over.

[bradboyd80]

Ok, I exaggerated the "half the playbook" comment. But it's telling when your HC Gruden says "Now I can open up the playbook more", when Cousins started taking over.

Link? I just don't remember hearing that.  I also remember Gruden saying RG3 would not play unless he could run every play. To me that means he needed to know the entire playbook. 

[MartinC]

RG3- only see's half the field and only knows part of the playbook. He holds onto the ball too long. Has great mobility but is also injury prone. Does not like the Spread Offense.

 

 

What do you mean by the comment above that RGIII does not like the spread offense? What exactly do you think RGIII was running at Baylor when he won the Heisman trophy? 

[Jumbo]

Hey, there's about fifty people since yesterday who could net a time out for rule 5 violations, and there are certainly some candidates in this thread. I suggest more of the regular forms of nonsense and less of the gratuitous insults to other posters. Tell your friends! 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

The truth is, it is impossible to know at this point.  Sample size is too small, and we won't know for a bit how much his injuries will linger for the long run.

 

When Griffin makes a read and delivers the ball with confidence, I think he's one of the best in the game.  His arm talent is special.  I gotta think he'll improve on doing that consistently the more he plays.  Until then, I guess I will just sit and watch everyone run him out of town.  It's truly sad.

[VRIEL1]

 

Do you have some inside knowledge that nobody else has? How do you know that RG3 only knows half the playbook and doesn't like the spread offense (I'm assuming you meant read option? Which even then, isn't true, as he said he would do whatever coach asked of him to help the team)? You like Cousins because of his ability to change the play at the line? Since when has he done that?  I remember several plays where the D would show an all out blitz and he didn't change the play, which subsequently resulted in a negative play.  And KC doesn't just throw INTs at bad times or when the team is down and he's trying to bring us back.   

So every single QB that fails to drive the length of the field for a win is not a franchise QB?  I don't know the actual numbers, but I would be willing to bet money that guys like Manning, Rodgers, Brady, etc, aren't at 100% on a potential game winning drives.  They must not be "franchise QBs" either.  My god this fanbase is insane. 

 

 

Also, maybe I missed something but I seem to have thought that the game Cousins threw INT's all day was during the Giants game. Otherwise for some reason I seem to only think he has done it in the 4th quarter of games the team is losing. No it's not good I agree, but I'd rather teach someone how to make a better decision then need to teach mental clock, pocket presence, and decision making.

 

and if you don't agree fine but my major request is judge both QB's with the same judgment. All I heard on the radio today was how great RG3 is and how he will develop if given time and how bad the OL was. When Cousins plays all I heard on the radio is Cousins sucks cause he throws INT's. Oh and there is a reason he is a second stringer. Yeah there is, our opinion might differ though, Cousins is a second stringer cause Snyder put his pocket of gold in RG3's corner and plans to live or die with him. Which brings me back to another comment I said just because you throw a ton of money at a QB does not make him a "Franchise" player. Maybe to other it means that but to me they have to earn the title. RG3 is far from earning the title. .....as well as Cousins, but Cousins has had only 6 starts or 4 starts and 2 finishes. Where as RG3 has had 36. Right. Shame according to pundits he still behind Cousins in development.

[Rskins06]

2.  Nobody was trashing Kirk after his career highlight performance against the Eagles.  People started trashing him after his 5 turnover performance against the Giants and rightly so.

That is not accurate.  People on that thread were trashing him for not being able to move the ball 10 yards to put his team in a position to tie the game.  He was trashed for the 1 INT in that game which allowed Philly to score (same as yesterday) and people made it clear he was not anything but a back up. 

Now, after the 5 TO game, everyone (including me) jumped off the bandwagon (rightfully so).

 

I am not saying it was all RG3s fault, however, he had the ball in his hands and had an opportunity to win or tie the game.

[VRIEL1]

What do you mean by the comment above that RGIII does not like the spread offense? What exactly do you think RGIII was running at Baylor when he won the Heisman trophy? 

 

You misunderstood me. and the other person was correct in saying I must have meant the "Read" option. I thought it was pretty well known that RG3 and his dad wants RG3 to be a pocket passer cause there is less chance for injury. This supposedly came out after RG3's first injury and surgery. I thought part of the issues between RG3 and Shanahan was because Shanahan wanted RG3 to run the "Read" option because that's what RG3 knows, but RG3 did not want to run it. Part of the reason the "Read" option was used less his second year and partly why Gruden has used it even less. Is it there? yes. but not used every other play which took the team to the playoffs.