NYT: What I Saw as an NFL Ball Boy

[gortiz]

this is fascinating no doubt, but not shocking, not real insightful, and not a big deal - to me.  I think these kind of things happen in industries and orgs all over, not just the NFL. 

 

I'm a white collar dude, in fact my mom use to call me virgin back, but I did work a blue collar job for about two months. I mean, hard core blue collar.  I was helping demolish the interiors of super pricey condos in SOUTH FLORIDA -  that should tell you where this is going.

 

The characters I came across, the stories I heard, the people I got to know, it was mind blowing. Guys would show up PLASTERED, and pick up a nail gun and go to work. PLASTERED and start doing work on a 15 story balcony. Drugs, booze, paying for sex, all the norm, it was wild. it was not out of the norm to have a beer and few smokes at a strip club, FOR LUNCH, mid day man. LOL. did it, several times when I worked with these guys. 

[GoSkins0721]

 

EDIT: one thing I forgot to add: The physical toll taken on D1-A is much different than at D2/D3/NAIA. That's not to say those players don't get beat up. They do. And some take tremendous beatings. But the speed of the game and the strength of the game increases with each level increase.

 

Keep in mind that the injuries former NFL players deal with on a daily basis are much different than a varsity high school football player. That's not to say serious injuries can't occur. They can and do. But the % of those injuries is fewer and far between. The NFL is filled with man children who run faster and hit harder than any other level of football. 

 

I agree the NFL injuries are typically more serious than injuries in college & HS. But, a concussion is a concussion and can be suffered at any level of football. The recent studies are showing the effects can last a lifetime. 

 

You should watch the series I posted (above) called "Casualties of the Gridiron". One of the players is a former special teams player at Army. He never even made it to the NFL (actually was honorably discharged while still in college because of post-concussion issues). 

 

One last comment, I agree with the rest of your post about football. I love the sport, too. But these head injuries are serious, serious cause for concern. 

[KDawg]

I agree the NFL injuries are typically more serious than injuries in college & HS. But, a concussion is a concussion and can be suffered at any level of football. The recent studies are showing the effects can last a lifetime. 

 

You should watch the series I posted (above) called "Casualties of the Gridiron". One of the players is a former special teams player at Army. He never even made it to the NFL (actually was honorably discharged while still in college because of post-concussion issues). 

 

One last comment, I agree with the rest of your post about football. I love the sport, too. But these head injuries are serious, serious cause for concern. 

 

I'm not sure where you took it that I don't think head injuries are serious.

 

But there are some VERY good protocols for concussion testing now. And people don't mess around with head injuries. If there are any symptoms, the player is typically held out, as they should be. They're not cleared to return until symptoms fade and they pass their concussion test. We had a player suffer one in week three. He's still out.

 

Concussions are extremely serious. But you can get a head injury from getting hit with a fastball in the head, blasted with a liner to the head, Getting elbowed in the head going up to the rim for a rebound. getting in a car wreck in racing, getting checked against the boards in the NHL... They can come from virtually any contact. The NFL is a more violent game, and you see them more often, understood. But they happen everywhere. The best thing for concussions is for the general populace to actually be educated about them and not just have a bunch of folks believe that only football players get them. Because people actually believe that.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I don't think if I had a son, that I would encourage him to play football, which says a lot.

I've talked about this before, my dad was an all state offensive lineman in high school, had a scholarship set and then one of his last high school games, completely blew out his knee. Absolutely refused to let me and my brother play organized football. He knew what time it was long, long ago. Played baseball and basketball instead,

[KDawg]

. Played baseball and basketball instead,

 

I would not be an angry dad if my son chose to love football, but play baseball/basketball/hockey. But, I'll also support him and make sure I teach him proper form if he chooses football. 

[Destino]

How does rugby compare to the football in terms of head injuries? Maybe the issue is that pads do the opposite of what they intend. I don't know, just asking the question.

[TMK9973]

Good article.

For those discussing youth sports - I think its a a little overblown. My son is, and has always been, TINY.  Talking 1 - 3% all his life (This year he is in the 12% and we all were so excited). I didnt want him playing football until he was 12, but he really enjoyed it and started at 7. And you know what -There were no violent hits.  

There were OTHER 7 years olds running into them. and even though he was the smallest on his team EVERY year - he was QB and a starter in D. Funny enough -The big kids at age 7, 8, 9, 10 - usually hit the lightest. (My theory -they big kids have always been told "go easy" by adults. THey dont know how to yet turn it on.

 

He played from 7 to age 12 - Always the smallest - He once sprained a ankle (missed 2 games) and broke a thumb (Missed 1 week).  that was it.

 

He plays baseball, where he has suffered Little league elbow (Missed 1 week but could only play 1st for 4 weeks and no pitching for 6 months) and a broken kneecap from sliding into 2nd (Out entire season).  

 

Now dont get me wrong - Football is a VIOLENT game that cause cause more serious injuries -LATER.  In fact -At age 13, My son decide it was time to give up football. He still loved it, but the reality was now the big kids could hit and he was just too small.  

[GoSkins0721]

I'm not sure where you took it that I don't think head injuries are serious.

 

But there are some VERY good protocols for concussion testing now. And people don't mess around with head injuries. If there are any symptoms, the player is typically held out, as they should be. They're not cleared to return until symptoms fade and they pass their concussion test. We had a player suffer one in week three. He's still out.

 

Concussions are extremely serious. But you can get a head injury from getting hit with a fastball in the head, blasted with a liner to the head, Getting elbowed in the head going up to the rim for a rebound. getting in a car wreck in racing, getting checked against the boards in the NHL... They can come from virtually any contact. The NFL is a more violent game, and you see them more often, understood. But they happen everywhere. The best thing for concussions is for the general populace to actually be educated about them and not just have a bunch of folks believe that only football players get them. Because people actually believe that.

 

Oh, I wasn't implying you didn't think head injuries were serious. I was referring to your comment "Keep in mind that the injuries former NFL players deal with on a daily basis are much different than a varsity high school football player."   

 

Sure, concussions can occur outside of football. But of all sports, I would bet it occurs more frequently in football. There's actually some speculation the great Lou Gehrig actually developed ALS from several undiagnosed concussions while playing baseball.

[KDawg]

Oh, I wasn't implying you didn't think head injuries were serious. I was referring to your comment "Keep in mind that the injuries former NFL players deal with on a daily basis are much different than a varsity high school football player."   

 

Sure, concussions can occur outside of football. But of all sports, I would bet it occurs more frequently in football. There's actually some speculation the great Lou Gehrig actually developed ALS from several undiagnosed concussions while playing baseball.

 

That comment was made in terms of these long lasting disorders. Many former pro football players have them. Those guys took sustained beatings to their entire body for, in most cases, a decade plus in high level athletics. Add to that no one knew anything about concussions and people played through them.

 

Football, as far as concussions go, has become a much safer sport. But concussions, as serious as they are, aren't the only threat to people in athletics. Hip replacements, knee replacements, ect. Most varsity athletes don't see a heck of a lot of those. You see more as you go into guys who played college ball. And the number multiplies further in the pros. The same can be said about people with these terrible brain disorders and concussions in general.

 

Why? Two main reasons: Sustained beatings over years and the physicality of the game continues to increase with each level.

[KingGibbs]

Being down close to the players on the field is a different experience. The speed and violence of the game are really indescribable.

We always have this discussion and I am honestly amazed that someone hasn't died on the field. As much as I hate the fact that the NFL is policing hits, it's probably necessary to avoid something as catastrophic as death.

[KDawg]

We always have this discussion and I am honestly amazed that someone hasn't died on the field. As much as I hate the fact that the NFL is policing hits, it's probably necessary to avoid something as catastrophic as death.

 

It's funny, because you hear all of these high school kids say they're going to go pro in something... And they have no idea what pro is like. They think the hits they take in high school are similar to the hits they're going to take at higher levels. They think that the commitment they have in high school is similar to the commitment in college and the pros. They think that the speed they see in high school is going to remain the speed they see in college and the pros. They think that the strength the see is the same strength...

 

The game of football, at the NFL level, is a completely different game than even the D1 college level. You think those college guys are monsters? Now keep in mind that the guys in the NFL are the biggest and baddest collegiate players. It's ridiculously fast and high impact. More than you could imagine. Studies have shown getting hit by Ray Lewis is akin to getting hit by a truck. Now figure there's a bunch of guys that hit at least as hard as a Prius would ().

[PeterMP]

Anybody think about the NFL putting weight limits on players?

 

Certainly part of the problem is the size of the players in terms of the stress that puts on joints, but then also the force that they hit with, which is also part of the problem, which is partly related to size (bigger, stronger, faster).

 

I wonder if the situation would get better if the NFL said nobody can play over 300 pounds and nobody more than 250 can end up more than 15 yards past the line of scrimmage on a play unless they have the ball.

[TMK9973]

Anybody think about the NFL putting weight limits on players?

 

Certainly part of the problem is the size of the players in terms of the stress that puts on joints, but then also the force that they hit with, which is also part of the problem, which is partly related to size (bigger, stronger, faster).

 

I wonder if the situation would get better if the NFL said nobody can play over 300 pounds and nobody more than 250 can end up more than 15 yards past the line of scrimmage on a play unless they have the ball.

 

 

Interesting idea isnt it? Weight limit for NFL - you could have a "heavy league" as well for those over a certain amount.  

[KingGibbs]

Kdawg. I've sat as close to an NFL field as you can get without stepping on the field and my reaction to the speed and impac'ts is as simple as "Holy ****!" It make me thankful I'm not one of those guys.

[Koolblue13]

I really like the weight limit idea.

 

I'm also really impressed by the continued tone of this thread and its serious nature.

 

A few years back, this would have been blown off and people would be getting called pussies and fags.

 

KDawg and DC9, your input is certainly valuable and appreciated.

To add, I heard a while back that the NFL is going to start testing for HGH next month. Is that true?

[KingGibbs]

Yes they are Koolblue. IMO they waited long enough for the players to get it out of their system because the NFL doesn't want or need another off the field headline.

[Mr. Sinister]

Interesting idea isnt it? Weight limit for NFL - you could have a "heavy league" as well for those over a certain amount.

I've been thinking about that. I mean you at some of those clips from the 80s and 70s, and you look at the offensive lineman and linebackers and d lineman, and they all look tight ends and safeties.

Lawrence Taylor was a 3-4 OLB but was maybe 8 to 9 pounds heavier than Sean Taylor. ST probably weighed more than him his rookie year where he was the heaviest of his career.

Now one could easily counter by saying that the 70s and 80s were some of the roughest days of football ever seen, but there were very few rules in place to protect players.

Today's players are just massive though... And faster. And stronger. Those three together are like setting off a nuke. I definitely think that is a part of the game that can be better managed.

I think all the guys that played ball in the mid to late 90s and 00s are the most at risk, because the game got a lot faster around that time.

[daveakl]

I really like the weight limit idea.

I'm also really impressed by the continued tone of this thread and its serious nature.

A few years back, this would have been blown off and people would be getting called pussies and fags.

KDawg and DC9, your input is certainly valuable and appreciated.

To add, I heard a while back that the NFL is going to start testing for HGH next month. Is that true?

hey now, no need to bring Tony Romo and the rest of his merry bunch into this thread.

[Koolblue13]

Yes they are Koolblue. IMO they waited long enough for the players to get it out of their system because the NFL doesn't want or need another off the field headline.

that is going to be a riot. I wonder how many will still pop. I'm betting a lot.

[sacase]

honestly, they need to do some real performance enhancing drug testing. I have seen to many former players post-NFL and they are half the size they were when they played. They look like normal guys. I recently saw pictures of Mark Stepnoski and Dat Nguyen of the 90's cowboys teams and they both look like they never played in the NFL. I think getting these guys down to much more natural body weights is very important for the sport and make it require skill vs size.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Anybody think about the NFL putting weight limits on players?

Certainly part of the problem is the size of the players in terms of the stress that puts on joints, but then also the force that they hit with, which is also part of the problem, which is partly related to size (bigger, stronger, faster).

I wonder if the situation would get better if the NFL said nobody can play over 300 pounds and nobody more than 250 can end up more than 15 yards past the line of scrimmage on a play unless they have the ball.

I like the idea. I would rather just have weight limits by position though and I think that would be a better way to control the game. I think some little leagues do that for certain positions anyway and don't let heavier linemen engage and wear special jersey colors and that kind of thing.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

I like the idea. I would rather just have weight limits by position though and I think that would be a better way to control the game. I think some little leagues do that for certain positions anyway and don't let heavier linemen engage and wear special jersey colors and that kind of thing.

Yeah, but that would be such a mess to monitor and then losing key players because say they get over the weight limit by 1-2 lbs.  You would have to strictly enforce it for it to work.  Then you take into account player injuries, when they pull or tweak something and cannot practice or work out all week, but would be perfectly fine on game day, they might go over the limit because they aren't burning off the extra lbs in practice, etc. 

 

In little league/pop warner I'd agree, cause there are some kids that are just naturally bigger and would really hurt smaller kids.  

[Mr. Sinister]

honestly, they need to do some real performance enhancing drug testing. I have seen to many former players post-NFL and they are half the size they were when they played. They look like normal guys. I recently saw pictures of Mark Stepnoski and Dat Nguyen of the 90's cowboys teams and they both look like they never played in the NFL. I think getting these guys down to much more natural body weights is very important for the sport and make it require skill vs size.

I think Jeff Saturday is the most shocking out of those I've seen. Guy looks like an average joe. You'd never know he was a multi pro bowl center. Looks like

[Corcaigh]

How does rugby compare to the football in terms of head injuries? Maybe the issue is that pads do the opposite of what they intend. I don't know, just asking the question.

 

More than the pads, I think the helmet is a big part of it. When tackling in rugby you get your head out of the way and hit with the shoulder and wrap with the arms. "Hands up, elbows in and sight the target".

 

Football tackles typically involve contact with the chest and driving the player back; and often actively using the head. Kids were coached to put their helmet on the ball in a tackle to cause a turnover. A small miscalculation and the result is driving your head into someones body with the force of your own body behind it.

 

There also pretty important differences in where tackles occur. In rugby open field tackles are the norm ... you typically don't have players with a running start meet each other in a big collision at a narrow choke point, so most tackles are one-on-one and made from the side, not a ball-carrier getting crushed by multiple people at different heights. They also tackle lower typically. And as the game is more flowing the ball carrier is often looking to pass out of the tackle so they don't lower themselves into a ball for a big collision. And in rugby there is nothing like a WR running a route across the middle and getting smashed by someone he doesn't have eyes on.

 

The biggest threat in rugby is from spinal injuries when a scrum collapses. As players have got bigger and stronger there are serious issues there especially with less skilled players. Rugby is also behind football at the moment in that it doesn't take concussion evaluation seriously enough.

 

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/eye-performance/201310/rugby-football-concussions-tackling-safety-technique

[Sticksboi05]

I've never had a problem with the comparison.  Dudes are away from their families and establish a similar comraderie.  Stakes aren't as high, but there are things I wouldn't want to do that they do

 

But wow... that article is a real "down to earth" piece about the game.  More and more every day looks like getting my son into hockey is the better choice. 

 

Another violent sport?