2015 FA Thread - OP Updated - Signings: Paea, Knighton, Culliver, Johnson, McCoy, Hill, Goldson

[PartyPosse]

There's just way too much money tied up at WR right now. you either dump Garcon or dump Roberts imo. I think Gruden will look to get bigger at WR and retain Djax so he can keep doing his thing. I think we all knew once Jackson was signed that this would be a 1, maybe 2 year experiment with all 3 of them here.

Problem is after 2 more years DJAX is probably gonna be gone or we're gonna have to sign him to a massive contract, which I would be hesitant considering he's a burner who will be close to 30.

[DogofWar1]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we went WR early in the draft.  If Cooper was magically sitting there, and Leonard Williams is gone, Cooper might be a surprise dark horse pick, kind of like Murphy this year.

 

We picked Murphy in anticipation of Orakpo leaving.  I could imagine us doing the same with DJax or Garcon.

 

Which of those would be gone is largely dependent on who Gruden likes more, which right now would probably be DJax.

 

But that whole situation is more of a 2016 FA, 2015 Draft kinda discussion.

 

 

Lauvao stumps me.  We paid him for some reason, there was something we liked.  My hope is that it's just the transition to LG that's causing issues, and that if we add or draft an LG, he can slide to RG and play better.

[planter]

Garcon better not be going anywhere. I know he's making like 8 mil a year but lose him and we are back to having a thin WR corp.

I would keep Cofield as when he's on the field he makes a difference in the 3-4. Hall stays IMO even if he's playing back-up. Licht stays as well and hell I'd even keep Lauvao because you're not saving muchif you cut him.

Porter, Chester and Bowen... don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

edit: Haha Dog... great minds think alike.

I'm on board, too. Great thread. Good research.

[Voice_of_Reason]

• DE Stephen Bowen—$8.02 million total cap/$5.5 million net savings
• NT Barry Cofield—$7.7 mm cap/$4.1 mm savings
• CB DeAngelo Hall—$4.8 mm cap/$2.4 mm savings
• G Chris Chester—$4.8 mm cap/$4.0 mm savings
• C Kory Lichtensteiger—$4.3 mm cap/$2.7 mm savings
• G Shawn Lauvao—$4.0 mm cap/$1.0 mm savings
• CB Tracy Porter—$3.8 mm cap/$2.8 million saving

I'd cut everybody but Kory.  

 

I think Bowen, Chester, Lauvao and Porter are obvious.  (Though I think Lauvao stays). If they bring back Chester AGAIN, I'm officially going to have a conniption.  Have you ever seen somebody have a conniption?  Trust me. You don't want to see it. 

 

The case against Hall: He's worked his way up to one of my favorite players. But.  I don't think he's going to recover enough to be a starting CB, and I think you WANT Amerson and Breeland to take those roles anyway.  And as a nickle, he's overpaid.  I also would prefer to solve the Safety position once and for all, and with Hall's age, even if he plays there, it's a 2 year fix MAX, and I'm not sure he'd be a good enough tackler to play FS anyway.  So, I think he's a "Thank you for your service, we appreciate it. Sorry, time's up" guy.

 

The case against Cofield.  Let me say that I like Cofield.  I think he's a good player, and rushes the passer pretty well from the inside.  But we've seen Cofield at NT now for several season.  Unless he puts on a clinic over the last 7 games, I just don't think it's enough.  Now, you could convince me to move him to DE and sign/draft a REALLY big, fat, slobbery, strong, true NT, then I'd reconsider.  But I just don't think Cofield at NT is working well enough, hasn't worked well enough in the past.  Willing to reconsider this, but that's my going in position.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Both in the draft and FA -- seem to be horrible at evaluating offensive line talent and maybe I'd throw in safety too.  So many misses in both the draft and FA.   They go on these outliers like draft Josh L in the 3rd round when others suggested he's an undrafted FA then they do it again with Long.   They give big money to Lavauo as if he's a pro-bowl guard.   On safety, they gave big money to an aging Atogwe, M Williams on and on.  If they can just evaluate these two position better, be nice! 

I'm going to only go by the last 5 years, since Allen has been here. Atogwe I think was earlier. (I think?)

 

So here's a question: Who's doing the evaluating of players for the OL and S? I know it's not Dan Snyder, and I know it's not Bruce Allen.  Allen isn't a "watch the film" GM.  Which is fine.  But for the past 5 years, since this regime came here, who are the talent evaluators at this position? And how much say do the coaches have? 

 

I actually think that the position coaches have A LOT of pull in this organization, and have for the past several years.  Say what you want about Shanahan, but but he didn't just go into a room, study film by himself, and then pick the players.  He might have overruled some decisions, but he had help.  And the people I'm guessing he leaned on most were the coaches.  Because coaches trust coaches.  It's the just way they're wired. (Which is why a coach shouldn't be in charge of players.)

 

So, I think Foerster and Morris have been very involved in selecting the players who we drafted and selected the last few years.  I'm not sure that changed this year under Allen.  

 

And while Foerster might be a very good OL coach, and Morris might be (jury is WAY out on that) a good secondary coach, both might suck profusely at selecting players they want to coach.  But they've been constant for the past 4 years.

 

The OL track record is horrendous.  Kory was a good pickup, but he was a Shanahan guy already.  Other than that, the rest of the picks and draft picks have been blah.  MAYBE Compton picks it up, and we'll have to see on Long and Moses.  So there's a chance for a turnaround here, but so far it's stupid bad.

 

Secondary, there's been a few good picks, but a lot of bad.  Amerson, Breeland are good.  That's about all the picks that are good.  The rest are pretty blah.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I'm going to only go by the last 5 years, since Allen has been here. Atogwe I think was earlier. (I think?)

 

 

 

It was in the last 5 years,  He got a 5 year 26 million dollar contract

[Voice_of_Reason]

It was in the last 5 years, He got a 5 year 26 million dollar contract

Oh, that's right. It was right before the lockout.

[Skinsinparadise]

Oh, that's right. It was right before the lockout.

 

yeah he just flamed out quickly.  so it feels like long ago.  But the team seems to go with these patchwork guys at safety and its one failure after the next, they haven't been good at drafting them either post Sean -- K. Moore, Horton, Gomes, Rambo, Thomas. 

[DogofWar1]

Yeah Atogwe was weird.  He was really good, really good, signed a big deal w/ Rams in 2010 at 29 years old, then a year later was cut.

 

In hindsight we probably shouldn't have read more into that, but for whatever reason we didn't and he came here.  Flamed out real quick.  Body just stopped being capable of playing NFL Football right around 30.

[Cooleyfan1993]

yeah he just flamed out quickly.  so it feels like long ago.  But the team seems to go with these patchwork guys at safety and its one failure after the next, they haven't been good at drafting them either post Sean -- K. Moore, Horton, Gomes, Rambo, Thomas. 

man, after the game against the saints in chris hortons first season, he really seemed like a great player...sucks that so many of our draft picks have turned out to not be good.

Yeah Atogwe was weird.  He was really good, really good, signed a big deal w/ Rams in 2010 at 29 years old, then a year later was cut.

 

In hindsight we probably shouldn't have read more into that, but for whatever reason we didn't and he came here.  Flamed out real quick.  Body just stopped being capable of playing NFL Football right around 30.

he went to the eagles after we released him too right? wasnt he on the "dream team" of 2011? or was he with them in 2012?

nevermind, just read that he WAS signed by them (eagles) on june 20th 2012, but released by them on august 31st 2012

[darrelgreenie]

The case against Cofield.  Let me say that I like Cofield.  I think he's a good player, and rushes the passer pretty well from the inside.  But we've seen Cofield at NT now for several season.  Unless he puts on a clinic over the last 7 games, I just don't think it's enough.  Now, you could convince me to move him to DE and sign/draft a REALLY big, fat, slobbery, strong, true NT, then I'd reconsider.  But I just don't think Cofield at NT is working well enough, hasn't worked well enough in the past.  Willing to reconsider this, but that's my going in position.

Then don't think Cofield as a NT think of him as a DT that's where he spends the bulk of time anyway. Remember we only play Okie about ~40% of the time. The rest of the time were in a 4-man line and that's where this defense was supposed to make their money.

3rd down with Rak-Hatcher-Cofield-Kerrigan. We only got to see that for what 1 game?

 

Also, I would argue that Cofield playing NT in Okie with Hatcher and Baker/Jenkins is a much better front 3 then we had last year and remember we only really say it for 1 game.

 

Watch, if Cofield returns healthy after the bye the pass rush/DL/defense is gonna look a lot better.

BTW-Now that the season is over and Griffin is the QB I'm all for Jay's pass heavy attack and then some. Let Griffin put up numbers who cares if we win.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Then don't think Cofield as a NT think of him as a DT that's where he spends the bulk of time anyway. Remember we only play Okie about ~40% of the time. The rest of the time were in a 4-man line and that's where this defense was supposed to make their money.

3rd down with Rak-Hatcher-Cofield-Kerrigan. We only got to see that for what 1 game?

Also, I would argue that Cofield playing NT in Okie with Hatcher and Baker/Jenkins is a much better front 3 then we had last year and remember we only really say it for 1 game.

Watch, if Cofield returns healthy after the bye the pass rush/DL/defense is gonna look a lot better.

BTW-Now that the season is over and Griffin is the QB I'm all for Jay's pass heavy attack and then some. Let Griffin put up numbers who cares if we win.

On Cofield, if he plays well, then of change my mind. He's on the fence for me. Easily convinced. Just show me.

On passing vs run. If they run better, like they did against the Vikings, I have no problem running. It's when they keep trying the same **** and get bad results over and over that I get frustrated.

That's why I say try something else, at least to change it up.

Just do whatever works. And throw 5-6 more passes to DJax deep each game.

[DogofWar1]

We can't toss Cofield unless he's not healthy, he's simply too good when healthy, and more importantly, too hard to replace.

 

We only save 4M by cutting him, and a healthy Cofield is definitely at least as good as anyone we'll pull in for a 4M cap hit next year, and that's even if we backloaded the deal.

 

I'd prefer we cut Bowen (hopefully his buddy Hatcher won't be too angry), keep Cofield, re-sign Jarvis for a reasonable amount, and draft someone fairly early.

 

Hatcher is likely cut after next year (or restructured), and Cofield will be 32 by that point, so his services are far from guaranteed.  That being said, keeping the Cofield-Hatcher duo together in 2015 should be part of the plan, with the hope that maybe one of them remains around for 2016 so that we can add another lineman, but maybe a round or two later.

[darrelgreenie]

The team is in desperate need of quality young DL.

[darrelgreenie]

On passing vs run. If they run better, like they did against the Vikings, I have no problem running. It's when they keep trying the same **** and get bad results over and over that I get frustrated.

That's why I say try something else, at least to change it up.

Just do whatever works. And throw 5-6 more passes to DJax deep each game.

I don't want to get into again but you have to put up with some negative runs IF you are gonna be a running team. Just like if you're gonna be a passing team you have to put up with QB mistakes (missed throws, interceptions, inefficient offense).

I believe this team lost games it could have run IF it were a better running team BUT to be a better running team Jay would have to be more focused on it and he wasn't. The Vikings game is an example of the lack of focus on the running game. Once we had the lead we should have been in 4 minute offense mode. Eating up the clock. But historically Jay runs the ball even less when based on football theory he should be running...

—It seems that Gruden doesn’t particularly like to sit on the ball to protect a lead. The Bengals threw 609 passes while holding a lead (at any point during the game); that ranked seventh in the NFL. And it didn’t particularly matter if Cincinnati had a bigger lead. Gruden called 418 passes when up by seven points or more, eighth-mist in the NFL.

http://realredskins.com/2014/07/03/need-to-know-was-jay-gruden-pass-happy-in-cincinnati/

 

^^Its an old article but it rings true. Jay achieves his play calling balance by predictably being run heavy on 1st down and passes the ball with impunity there after.

 

But all that's in the past now because the rest of the year isn't about winning. (which I still believe the best path would be to embrace the ZBS running game). The rest of the year should be about airing the ball out with Griffin.

We should target DeSean Jackson all the time. We should find plays for Garcon (even though he's not a great route runner nor great at creating separation he is a beast after the catch) we gotta bring back that skinny post that he made a living on.

Our offense should be ~20+ targets between DeSean and Garcon ~15 targets between Reed-Paul ~5-10 targets Helu.

[Voice_of_Reason]

But all that's in the past now because the rest of the year isn't about winning. (which I still believe the best path would be to embrace the ZBS running game). The rest of the year should be about airing the ball out with Griffin.

We should target DeSean Jackson all the time. We should find plays for Garcon (even though he's not a great route runner nor great at creating separation he is a beast after the catch) we gotta bring back that skinny post that he made a living on.

Our offense should be ~20+ targets between DeSean and Garcon ~15 targets between Reed-Paul ~5-10 targets Helu.

So, I'll concede this: While I'm not sure that I think the best way for this team to win is to be a run first team, it's definitely a possibility that it would be a good way to go for this team, if they could figure out how to do it.  

 

However, I absolutely think that this coaching staff should not be a run-first coaching staff because they stink at it.  

 

I think that for that scheme to work, you've got to have not only your OL but your outside blockers, TE's and WR's, who are stud and willing blockers and able to seal off cutback lanes and stay on their guy while the RB goes horizontally before he finds a hole and cuts up-field.  

 

In 2012/2013, the combination of Garcon/Morgan/Paulsen/DY was MUCH better than DJax/Garcon/(Reed/Niles)/(Roberts/Reed). And in the last 2 years, the WRs were brought in partially for their blocking ability.  That's one of the things they loved about Josh Morgan.  His ability to block.  DJax was not brought here to block anybody. 

 

They could get better blockers on the field to run the ball, but that would probably pull DJax, JReed and Roberts off the field.  So you have to make a decision: Do I want to run first, in which case we're probably removing my most explosive offensive weapons from the game, or do I want to pass first, where I put them out there?  The issue I've been having is that they've been TRYING to run with a personnel group that isn't good at doing it.  

 

So, for me, it's always bee:

 

1. Get the right guys on the field to run the ball, and then run it.  

2. Pass first with the personnel guys you're putting out there.

 

I don't really care which.

 

Now that the season is over, I agree, however, screw it and start flinging it all over the field.  Get Robert as many reps as possible.  They'll make some big plays, they'll make some mistakes.  But hopefully, they'll be able to overcome some of those mistakes with big plays.

[lovemaskins]

Understand some of the points, but until we change our front office philosophy we're not gonna be successful.  We need an Andy Reid like approach.  I always liked how Reid made it a point every year to take a linemen early.  Either first or second round.  He still does. That's how you build a team.  From the inside out. 

 

We do it backwards.  We draft corners and wideouts and tight ends and safeties and Linebackers.  Must Draft Fat Boys! 

 

So yeah, keep Coefield and Baker, but we have to have a plan to get young offensive and defensive lineman or we'll continue to be talking free agency in the middle of November like we're doing now. 

[Samuels]

Devin Mccourty should be our #1 target. The kid is the real deal at FS who can lineup in the slot.

[carex]

We can't toss Cofield unless he's not healthy, he's simply too good when healthy, and more importantly, too hard to replace.

 

We only save 4M by cutting him, and a healthy Cofield is definitely at least as good as anyone we'll pull in for a 4M cap hit next year, and that's even if we backloaded the deal.

 

I'd prefer we cut Bowen (hopefully his buddy Hatcher won't be too angry), keep Cofield, re-sign Jarvis for a reasonable amount, and draft someone fairly early.

 

Hatcher is likely cut after next year (or restructured), and Cofield will be 32 by that point, so his services are far from guaranteed.  That being said, keeping the Cofield-Hatcher duo together in 2015 should be part of the plan, with the hope that maybe one of them remains around for 2016 so that we can add another lineman, but maybe a round or two later.

 

We play three down linemen.  Keep Hatcher, Cofield, Baker and re-sign Jenkins then why in the world do we need to draft someone high?  Unless Cofield, who will miss most of this season and hasn't been badly missed, takes a major pay cut and is shifted to DE(Baker should stay on the nose) then he should be cut.

[Voice_of_Reason]

We play three down linemen. Keep Hatcher, Cofield, Baker and re-sign Jenkins then why in the world do we need to draft someone high? Unless Cofield, who will miss most of this season and hasn't been badly missed, takes a major pay cut and is shifted to DE(Baker should stay on the nose) then he should be cut.

They haven't shown they can put pressure with those guys. That's why you go look for a DL in the draft.

[carex]

They haven't shown they can put pressure with those guys. That's why you go look for a DL in the draft.

 

Hatcher has a few sacks but that is the LB's job

[bradboyd80]

Hatcher has a few sacks but that is the LB's job

"Pressure" being the key word. Constant pressure with your DL, without having to blitz, is what we need but haven't seen.

[HAILSKINSNYC]

why would there be any thought in cutting Lichtensteiger?   He's been our best lineman this year, I think.

 

I would keep Hall...he has the potential to help us at Safety if he can't play Corner.

 

I'm definitely cutting everyone else on the list....Bowen, Cofield, Porter, Chester & Lavauo.

 

I'm spending this off-season on the o-line and d-line....throw in a safety and another pass rusher..

[DogofWar1]

We play three down linemen.  Keep Hatcher, Cofield, Baker and re-sign Jenkins then why in the world do we need to draft someone high?  Unless Cofield, who will miss most of this season and hasn't been badly missed, takes a major pay cut and is shifted to DE(Baker should stay on the nose) then he should be cut.

Hatcher and Cofield are both now 30+, and they're the 2 best linemen we have, so even if we kept that group of 4 for next year, all it takes is for one of those 2 older guys to go down to take the line with them.  Look at the line right now, or last year.  Cofield alone couldn't do it.  Hatcher alone can't do it.  We need 2 solid or better DL pass rushers, and I'm antsy having only 2 on the team.

 

Meanwhile, looking to 2016, Hatcher will be gone most likely (contract goes way up in year 3), or retired, or have fallen off a skill cliff, and Cofield could undergo the same process, though he's a little younger.

 

Basically, you draft a guy high even if you re-sign Jenkins so that when Hatcher is gone in 2016 the high pick steps in.  Then you also nab somebody to step in for Cofield a year or two later.

[carex]

"Pressure" being the key word. Constant pressure with your DL, without having to blitz, is what we need but haven't seen.

 

that's a 4-3.  With no LB's rushing we give three man pressure, almost no one gets pressure from that.  Hell at major passing downs we're down to one or two DL