ncr2h Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Exactly. ncxxx claimed that Cousins was a far superior QB with the deep ball than RG. He then offered some rather lopsided % figures to support that argument without a link. I did a 5 minutes google and link and found a reputable, clean site that showed that their deep% was essentially the same and then offered the link to support the assertion. The Desean comment was to provide a rationale for why Cousins' % increased so drastically from 2013 to 2014. Overall, what should be taken from my post is that ncxxx is less than factual and possibly a psychopath. He is, however, very entertaining! Do you understand what the stat in your own link means? You don't right now, but if you continue to read my post, you'll see that I've researched it on your behalf. http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/index.php/home/stats/stats-explained Deep Pass Percentage (Deep%) – The proportion of pass targets in which a receiver is greater than 15 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Like many RG3 supporters, you got sick to your stomach when you saw that Kirk actually does something better than RG3. You then knee-jerk jumped to the first site you found that had a stat you thought supported your own argument. You did not understand what that stat meant, you simply posted it because 13.5% is lower than 18.3% and 20.4%. The stat you posted is the percentage of passes that travel 15 or more yards in the air. It says nothing about whether or not the pass was completed. It says nothing about TDs, nothing about INTs, nothing about completion percentage. The stats I posted are publicly available at ESPN.com. I went to each QB's stats page and added together their career to date stats for passes 31+ yards in the air. My stats tell you how effective each QB is when he throws the ball 31+ yards down the field. Your stats tell you how often the QB throws the ball 15+ yards down the field. I await your name calling with bated breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Remember when Kirk was going to lead the Skins to a division title? http://es.redskins.com/topic/382009-start-cousins-compete-for-division/ Ah those were the days when we dreamed big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Arrrghh. Thats what I get for half-assing. I stand corrected. I bow to your mastery of obscure statistics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drastik Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Cousins has faced a murderer's row of a schedule. Besides having 3 of his 6 games against top 10 defenses according to footballoutsiders, the record of teams he's faced is a combined 15-13. The record of teams he's lost to is a combined 15-7, for a winning percentage of 68%. This projects to an average team strength of 11-5. Cousins faced them with a team that just went 3-13 and is riddled with injuries. Man just stop.. you are getting pathetic. Giants, Eagles, and Jaguars all have HORRENDOUS defenses... Seattle has a good defense, and Arizona has an average defense thats been ravaged by injuries. Far from a murderer's row dude. Last year he played Dallas, Atlanta, and NYG, I don't feel like looking up the numbers from last year, but I'm quite sure all those teams were in the bottom 1/4th of the league then as well in terms of team defense. At the end of the day Kirk is 0-4 this year. And to take it one step further... you previously mentioned that RG3's win% is worse than Jason Campbells... You failed to mention that Kirk Cousins is 1-7... worse than that of Ryan Leaf or our very own Heath Shuler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Man just stop.. you are getting pathetic. Giants, Eagles, and Jaguars all have HORRENDOUS defenses... Seattle has a good defense, and Arizona has an average defense thats been ravaged by injuries. Far from a murderer's row dude. Last year he played Dallas, Atlanta, and NYG, I don't feel like looking up the numbers from last year, but I'm quite sure all those teams were in the bottom 1/4th of the league then as well in terms of team defense. At the end of the day Kirk is 0-4 this year. And to take it one step further... you previously mentioned that RG3's win% is worse than Jason Campbells... You failed to mention that Kirk Cousins is 1-7... worse than that of Ryan Leaf or our very own Heath Shuler. Jaguars and Eagles have horrible defenses. The jaguars he smoked to the tune of one of their biggest losses in franchise history. That phillys defense is garbage is debatable, but nevertheless he smoked them as well until the final drive of the game. Seahawks, Giants, philly, and cardinals have a combined win-loss of 15-7. This would be like facing a 10-6, 8-8, 13-3, and 13-3 team. Cousins is the scrub who we can close the book on because he couldn't beat any of them with his 3-13 team. Meanwhile, Griffin is 1-9 in his last 10 starts against .500 or better teams. I'm struggling to understand when it is that you developed an appetite for winning, and if so why are you so eager to go back to RG3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 i still think mara has something to do with all these interceptions. think about it...it all started happening against the giants in week 4. hey, its a plausible explanation!! dont laugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Arrrghh. Thats what I get for half-assing. I stand corrected. I bow to your mastery of obscure statistics! It happens to the best of us. I salute you. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Problem #2: Yard per carry If defenses were stacking the box against us, how is it that we are #17 in the league in terms of yards per carry, even after facing the #3 and #6 defenses in terms of rush yards per game? You would think with stacked boxes we would be among the league's worst in yards per carry. The problem with our run game is not due to stacked boxes, it's due to the fact that we're constantly getting into shootouts with our opponents. Eagles game. Giants game. Seahawks game. From the opening whistle, those games looked like games where we needed 30+ points just to remain competitive. Problem #3: It makes no logical sense Help me understand this statement: "Yeah, we're gonna just stack the box against this loser who is averaging 315 yards and 2 TDs per game. You know why? Because that 1.5 INTs he throws per game is going to totally lose the game for his team. Meanwhile, the guy I'm really worried about is the one averaging 60 yards and 0.5 TDs per game." Well Arizona was certainly stacking the box and blitzing the hell out of us. Kirk certainly threw for a lot of yards against the Cards (and throughout the year to this point), but he had a hard time beating the blitz, and I suppose our opponents' logic is that they'll give up yards anyway, so be aggressive, force Kirk to throw, and he'll probably make mistakes and/or fold with the game on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Meanwhile, Griffin is 1-9 in his last 10 starts against .500 or better teams. I'm struggling to understand when it is that you developed an appetite for winning, and if so why are you so eager to go back to RG3? Heres why I'm looking forwards to RGIII coming back. On 3rd and 3 -8 Kirk has a 37.6 QB rating. 4,5 yards per attempt, 2 picks and zero TDs. On 3rd and 9+ he has a 15 QB rating. 2 yards per attempt (TWO!!), 1 pick and zero TDs. In the first half of games Kirk has a passer rating over 100. 6 TDs and zero picks. In the second half of games he has a rating of circa 65. 4 TDs 8 picks. I do think Kirk has shown potential and he may, in time and the right circumstance, develop into a decent or even good starting QB. But right now when in critical situations which decide games - 3rd downs and later in games when he has to make plays to win - he is not getting it done. From what he has shown so far he's a good backup, but not a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Martin, I'm always cautious about relying too heavily on stats. The game's context must be considered. For example, when it's an obvious passing down, the defense often dials up the blitz which the Skins offensive line is usually incapable of handling. Rather than take a sack, we get less than optimum passing from Cousins. That would be a factor in third and longs, as well as 4th quarters where the game hasnt been settled yet and the opponents still need to stop the Skins offense (I.e., not yet garbage time). Also with poor pass protection, Cousins stats will suffer whenever the Skins are behind and the Skins offense has become one-dimensional (since the running game has been abandoned). Here too, the offensive line is often manhandled by simply the defensive line, and almost futile vs. a full blitz package. Stats probably reflect that the Eagles, Giants, Seahawks, and to some extent the Cardinals had quality d-line players -- who seemed to regularly dominate the likes of Polumbus and Chester. Moreover, as the last line of pass protection, Helu really needs to improve his blocking of those opponents breaking through and heading for the QB. I will note that Cousins does seem to wear down in the final stages of the game. Maybe it's cumulative number of hits and hurries coupled with the pressure of being behind, and trying to keep the offense on the field, since the defense and special teams aren't usually much help. Or maybe he simply wears down mentally. But I suspect he'd do much better and last longer with adequate pass protection, and a running game. Bottom line is that the Skins team isn't good enough to be effective as one dimensional offense; and decent run support --primarily from the offensive line-- needs to be there for it to happen. And stats tend to reflect that along with the "L"s too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Bottom line is that the Skins team isn't good enough to be effective as one dimensional offense; and decent run support --primarily from the offensive line-- needs to be there for it to happen. And stats tend to reflect that along with the "L"s too. I agree stats need context and don't tell the whole story. To add some context here are the same stats from RGIII from 2013 (his bad year). The overall issues you raise which effect performance in obvious passing situations were just as much in evidence in 2013 as this year IMO, maybe even more so. 3rd and 8-9 - 99 QB rating, 6.2 yards per attempt, 5TDs and 1 INT 3rd and more than 9 - 76 QB rating, 7.3 yards per attempt, 2 TDs and 2 INTs He had a QB rating of 80 in the first half of games with 7 TDs and 7 INTs He had a QB rating of 83 in the second half of games with 9 TDs and 5 INTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Skins Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 There are some extreme cases where the QB suddenly stops throwing picks i.e. Peyton Manning/Drew Brees, however most QBs who have an issue with throwing picks continue this trend throughout their respective careers. That is Kirk, he will never overcome this. I just love this statement. There are players that stop throwing picks and there are players that don't. But you are 100% certain that Cousins falls into the latter category??!! Come on, let the rest of us hope/dream that he stops throwing picks. Then we will have one heck of a quarter-back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Kirk Cousins has thrown 18 interceptions in 13 games. Robert Griffin III has thrown 17 interceptions in 30 games. How come Kirk never gets criticized for not being able to read defenses? Nobody really wants me to answer this, do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Continuing my sub-thread with MartinC.... While it's hard to compare Griffin 2013 stats with the current sample, Griffin had a better running game backing him up in 2013, and more "garbage time" because of defense and special teams. With the exception of the New York game -- most of these 2014 games were close in the 4th quarter. My hope is that this team gets a bit healthier after the bye -- otherwise Griffin is likely to get handed the same set of dismal circumstances that Cousins has been laboring with. Maybe he'll have slightly easier schedule, but even there, most teams have defensive lines that compare favorably to four-fifths of the Skins O-line. And if Griffin is forced to scramble to keep the play going, I worry about re-injury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseNeckred Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Nobody really wants me to answer this, do they? he passes the eye test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planter Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Why are people still posting on this thread? Wasn't my answer sufficient? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rskins06 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 This is the thread that just wont die:) There are definitely 2 sides to these arguments. Here is my take (not that it matters at all): The organization gave up a lot to get RG3 and besides 2012, he is an uproven commodity. No one really knows if RG3 is closer to the 2012 version or the 2013 version. Being that he is an unknown, you can't really make a decision about extending him, picking up the 5th year of contract, etc. If you look at this without the RG3 colored glasses, you will absolutely agree he has not shown much since 2013, but his performance in 2012 is enough to continue to see what we have. KC didn't cost much to get and isn't costing the team much now. I think when RG3 got hurt, KC came in and for 2 games looked good to great, at that point, I believe it was KCs job to lose (even over a healthy RG3). I also believe there are some in the organization at that time were rooting for KC to continue playing well (including JG). Now, after 3 continuous average to below average games, KC has failed to take this job and run with it. I think everyone can see the potential in KC and also agree it may be a year or two to get his INT habit taken care of. So, we know what we have with him. The organization HAS to know what they have in RG3, they HAVE to know if he can improve and the ONLY way they will know is getting RG3 back on the field, giving him the rest of the season to show if he can run this offense. Unless they change the offense (mistake in my opinion as this offense works) to fit RG3 this is really a mute point, he has to progress in Grudens offense. Give RG3 EVERY opportunity to prove he can become the QB everyone wants him to be. If not, then you either keep the QB you feel gives you the best chance to win and let either KC or RG3 go at the end of the season OR you open up a true QB competition and winner takes all, and then let the other QB go. We already have a backup QB (Colt McCoy). At this point, the only thing we know is both QBs have losing records the last year. Why are people still posting on this thread? Wasn't my answer sufficient? Man, I just posted before reading your answer. I am always a day late and a dollar short! And if Griffin is forced to scramble to keep the play going, I worry about re-injury If RG3 comes back and gets reinjured, I think it would time to move in a different direction. I know this may not be the opinions of most, however, if your QB can't stay on the field, then he is just holding up a roster spot. BLUF: He HAS to stay healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Continuing my sub-thread with MartinC.... While it's hard to compare Griffin 2013 stats with the current sample, Griffin had a better running game backing him up in 2013, and more "garbage time" because of defense and special teams. With the exception of the New York game -- most of these 2014 games were close in the 4th quarter. My hope is that this team gets a bit healthier after the bye -- otherwise Griffin is likely to get handed the same set of dismal circumstances that Cousins has been laboring with. Maybe he'll have slightly easier schedule, but even there, most teams have defensive lines that compare favorably to four-fifths of the Skins O-line. And if Griffin is forced to scramble to keep the play going, I worry about re-injury 3rd down passing down efficiency/performance has very little to do with the running game and not much to do with any garbage time argument (and I don't accept garbage time as much of an argument in any case). Bottom line Kirks not getting it done in the crucial situations that have a high correlation with winning football games. He's got at least one, possibly two more starts - him playing much better on 3rd downs is something to look for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Nobody really wants me to answer this, do they? I already know the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan212689 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Nobody really wants me to answer this, do they? I'd like to know seriously because I actually posted a similar question in a different thread (since there are so many about this subject) I really would like to know why because I don't think Kirk reads defenses well. He all about getting the ball out fast by any means necessary. No matter who catches it he can at least say he get the ball out faster than RG3 which is ridiculous... Please enlighten me? Thanks in advance. Hail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 There is no doubt, at this point, that Kirk is contact-averse. Will not hold the ball in the pocket, will not step into the pocket under pressure and will not pull it down and risk contact to scramble for a first down…at all. Very Grossman-like in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I am not one to ever pile on, so I've stayed out of this thread. Here's what I see: 1. Kirk has the opposite problem of Griffin, he decides where he's going with the ball almost too fast, and doesn't always see everything. 2. He's prone to some inacurate throws, especially accross the middle of the field. Cooley pointed this out yesterday. There are a lot of throws on crossing routes that are behind the receivers and high. Receipe of disaster 3. He's started and played in less than 10 games, and he's liable to have some "rookie" type mistakes, even though he's not a rookie. 4. Once something bad happens, he has shown a tendency to melt down. 1 INT isn't terrible. But the problem is that once it happens, he tends to have a meltdown, and throw them in bunches. Could be that he's pressing. 5. The more teams get film on him, the more they are baiting him into things he hasn't seen Whatever the cause, it's becoming a pattern. He's going to have to get it fixed quickly. Peyton Manning threw (I think) 22 INTs in his first season, 16 games. That's a lot. So giving up on a guy because he throws a lot of INTs early is a mistake. But, honestly, Kirk isn't Peyton, and the leash will not be that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG2004 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 First - I want any QB playing to do well, I want wins. But please can we stop giving Cousins a pass on experience already. He is an experienced football player and the interception thing and crumbling under high pressure was in his scouting report. It has followed him from being a multi-year starter in college into the pro game which is making it worse due to the speed of defenses here. Now he is saying he is going to run or move more and that scares me. Either he gets hurt or exposes himself to off balance throws and fumbles. He is not a big guy. Just hope things don't go south from here with him trying to reinvent himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brokenstriker Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 He was like is a talkaholic during the preseason games ... and always has been. fixed that for you ... I guess you're too young to remember Joe when he was playing for us ... the man was born talking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I'd like to know seriously because I actually posted a similar question in a different thread (since there are so many about this subject) I really would like to know why because I don't think Kirk reads defenses well. He all about getting the ball out fast by any means necessary. No matter who catches it he can at least say he get the ball out faster than RG3 which is ridiculous... Please enlighten me? Thanks in advance. Hail You really don't see what LKB is getting at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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