mistertim Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 There's football IQ and then there's processing/executing information correctly and quickly under live fire. Sure, he'll be able to tell you calmly in a class setting or during no-contact practice that the right thing to do is to throw the ball away, but his actions might not reflect as such in a real time situation. Reminds me of that scene from the movie "Glory" where one of the soldiers was demonstrating proudly his superb marksmanship to the other soldiers and his commanding officers, but when his colonel arrived and asked the soldier to repeat his marksmanship demonstration (all while repeatedly firing a pistol close to the soldier's ear to better simulate a proper combat situation), the soldier faltered miserably. True, but pretty much every single QB is going to experience that, especially a guy like Griffin who has been so used to making plays out of nothing using his athleticism. At this point I think it is just teaching himself to do it so it is an instinct as opposed to having to think about it. He needs to learn to take what's there and make the best decision regarding throwing the ball away or trying to pick up yards, etc. As far as his passing I don't really think he has a problem processing information, I think the issue may be him over-thinking or second guessing himself. That, too, is something that will come with more time in live fire with full field reads, etc. And it isn't like he always looks to be hesitant and indecisive. It has happened a bit, but there are many times so far this preseason that I've also seen Griffin go through multiple progressions all over the field and get the ball to his 3rd read. Humans have a tendency to remember the negative far more than the positive and that manifests itself in this situation as well. It's like Matt Damon's character says in Rounders: "Few players recall big pots they have won, strange as it seems, but every player can remember with remarkable accuracy the outstanding tough beats of his career." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dckey Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 skins Island ? Do you think Cousins could have done what RG3 did in 2012? It seems you think that Cousins has more upside than Griffin from your previous posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_R Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 2012-2013 Peyton Manning 50 td 42 int 14-15 record Eli manning 30 td 26 int 12-11 record Drew brees 28 td 31 int 10-17 record RGIII 36 td 17 int 13-16 record Nuff said.... / thread What the heck am I looking at? Madden stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 skins Island ? Do you think Cousins could have done what RG3 did in 2012? It seems you think that Cousins has more upside than Griffin from your previous posts I don't. But there is no reason to believe that if Cousins had been the starter since the beginning of 2012 that he wouldn't be a much better QB now than he currently is. And that could be a very good QB. There is this assumption that his ceiling is low and this is as good as he can be. But its a blind assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dckey Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I don't. But there is no reason to believe that if Cousins had been the starter since the beginning of 2012 that he wouldn't be a much better QB now than he currently is. And that could be a very good QB. There is this assumption that his ceiling is low and this is as good as he can be. But its a blind assumption. What has he done that makes you think he can be a very good qb? This is what bothers me about the whole RG3 Cousins debate, I understand all the issues with RG3 and I don't deny there are real concerns, but Cousins hasn't shown me anything to think he would be better. Yes he won the Cleveland game, but people like to say he won the Ravens game, he only completed 2 passes. RG3 drove the team down the field and Cousins threw the TD, but people make it out like he had this monster game in the second half. I remember Cousins coming in against ATL and throwing a TD to give us the lead then ATL scored and he then threw a pick. Out of all the back-up QB's who played last year even some on the teams that were just like ours ,terrible ie: OAK, BUF, JAC, CLE, TEN, he was the only one that could not win a game. Like I stated earlier this is not about RG3 this is purely talking Cousins and I just don't see what others see in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsciambi Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Im a white guy, but i have to ask why does the media enjoy trolling black qbs so much. Qbs such as geno, cam, and rg3 are super young, but get a lot of negative press... I started noticing this cams rookie year with (towelgate), and it has continued with the likes of geno, kaepernick and now rg3 The cheifs 1st team has not scored a td at all this preseason, but nobody talks about it... Sam Bradford and Jake Locker have had so many failures but have been allowed to develop... I sometimes think that rookie black qbs are under more pressure to produce right awsy than their peers... The media was ready to pounce on both rg3 and newton their first game if they struggled.. Meanwhile in Andrew Lucks first game.. He threw 4 picks and they came up with every excuse in the book made for him.... I also dont believe that cam, geno, kaep, or rg3 would get no serious negative press if they threw 8 interceptions in a single postseason like Luck did year... He flat out got a pass Certain young qbs must produce right away or their job becomes in jeopardy and other young qbs are allowed to learn from their mistakes and develop... Sad I think you're completely off base here. Otherwise Luck would have won ROTY over RG3. It was a close competition. And to say that Luck got no flack for his interceptions is disingenuous. Most people criticized him heavily that the reason he was having so many 4th quarter comebacks was entirely due to him putting the team in a hole with his turnovers. No one was calling for Cam to be benched during his sophomore slump, and everyone was gushing over him when his play turned around. Plenty of teams quarterbacked by white players have received criticism this preseason for underperforming. Maybe you just don't pay attention to the media outside of Washington sports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 What has he done that makes you think he can be a very good qb? This is what bothers me about the whole RG3 Cousins debate, I understand all the issues with RG3 and I don't deny there are real concerns, but Cousins hasn't shown me anything to think he would be better. Yes he won the Cleveland game, but people like to say he won the Ravens game, he only completed 2 passes. RG3 drove the team down the field and Cousins threw the TD, but people make it out like he had this monster game in the second half. I remember Cousins coming in against ATL and throwing a TD to give us the lead then ATL scored and he then threw a pick. Out of all the back-up QB's who played last year even some on the teams that were just like ours ,terrible ie: OAK, BUF, JAC, CLE, TEN, he was the only one that could not win a game. Like I stated earlier this is not about RG3 this is purely talking Cousins and I just don't see what others see in him. I don't know that I've seen anything in particular. I've seen him move the ball on teams, make beautiful reads and throws, make quick decisions, make the O-line look better than it usually looks. I've seen him play like a bonehead rookie. Its never been my argument that Cousins is this superstar in the waiting. I've always challenged the assumption that is so prevalent here on ES that Robert has this unlimited ceiling of potential that he has not even begun to reach and that Kirk has a low ceiling that he has obviously already reached. He will never be any better than Rex. Its just fact for so many here. My assertion is that there is no way anybody here could possibly know what either of their ceilings are. Robert could skyrocket again and be our guy for 10 years or he could have reached his ceiling with his meteoric rise his senior year of college. Maybe last year and this preseason is him hitting his ceiling. Maybe not. NOBODY KNOWS. Kirk could have progressed an immense amount had he been the starter since he was drafted. If he did, he would be damn good. He appears to have all the tools, save a stellar arm. Maybe he wouldn't improve a lot. NOBODY KNOWS. I'm weary of the Robert will get waaaay better, Kirk can't stuff. Because those saying that don't know. They may end up being right, but so is a coin 50% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 New article on NFL.com featuring analysis from Ron Jaworski, Griffins footwork and mechanics have regressed (per the article) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghosti Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Didn't Cousins get all the reps last offseason? And the preseason? Are you kidding. Will the stupid comments ever end. Yes he did and we went 4-0 in preseason… Griffin takes over… 3-10. Hows does that make you feel now? If we stayed with cousins and kept the preseason rolling we were no where near 3-13 and with our weak a$$ division, we probably would have made the playoffs. Geez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Maybe we should go to a 2-QB system? Cousin's for the pocket passing and Griffin for the read-option? Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghosti Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Here is another thing no one wants to look at and why Griffin was really a product of his system in college. Here are some stats of Griffins two years at Baylor and the 2 following QB’s after him. Both of the following QB’s first years were much better than Griffins in rating and I would expect Griffin’s percentages to improve in his second year running the offense, which they did and led to a Heismann. Its obvious the system at Baylor is setup to produce numbers and everyone puts too much emphasis on Griffins numbers in that system because as you can tell, QB production barely dropped after he left and in reality they actually went up if you want to compare Florence’s and Petty’s first years compared to Griffins. comp/att %comp Yards TD Int Rating Griffin 2010 - 304/454 67% 3501 22 8 144 Griffin 2011 - 291/402 73% 4293 37 6 189 Florance 12 - 286/464 62% 4309 33 13 158 Petty 13 - 250/403 62% 4200 32 3 174 It goes to show that stats from Griffins college days are no big deal because practically every QB that comes into that system are going to rack those up and I’m surprised that redskin scouts didn’t take that into consideration. If anything, I think they severely over paid for Griffin based on these quarterback comparisons and probably is the reason why you will never see cousin start aka (saving face). It also goes to show that numbers can mislead someone about a player especially those coming out of college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Are you kidding. Will the stupid comments ever end. Yes he did and we went 4-0 in preseason… Griffin takes over… 3-10. Hows does that make you feel now? If we stayed with cousins and kept the preseason rolling we were no where near 3-13 and with our weak a$$ division, we probably would have made the playoffs. Geez. Who cares what he did in preseason? When he got a chance in the regular season he pretty much flopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Are you kidding. Will the stupid comments ever end. Yes he did and we went 4-0 in preseason… Griffin takes over… 3-10. Hows does that make you feel now? If we stayed with cousins and kept the preseason rolling we were no where near 3-13 and with our weak a$$ division, we probably would have made the playoffs. Geez.Kirk, you should be studying your play book and not on extremeskins. I'm telling coach Also, what the hell did they teach you at MSU? Question marks are still the accepted symbols for asking questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The thing is, just because Cousins might be more advanced in offenses that more resemble NFL offenses doesn't mean he is the better long term answer. So the question is, do you take the guy with more upside and develop him or do you bail on him because you saw Cousins make a few good decisive passes against backups in the preseason? RG3 did what he did in 2012 as a rookie, one offseason to develop and prepare. He lost the opportunity to further develop in 2013 and was trying to learn on the fly in 2013 when he didn't have his legs under him or a knee to plant on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Colt McCoy is making Cousins look like Ryan Leaf. And we've only run the ball 6 times! EDIT: n/m. Career backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 It goes to show that stats from Griffins college days are no big deal because practically every QB that comes into that system are going to rack those up and I’m surprised that redskin scouts didn’t take that into consideration. If anything, I think they severely over paid for Griffin based on these quarterback comparisons and probably is the reason why you will never see cousin start aka (saving face). It also goes to show that numbers can mislead someone about a player especially those coming out of college. You're comparing Griffins 3rd year in the system where he was coming back from a knee injury to Florence and Petty's 4th year in the system, though it was there first year starting. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. You show that Griffin, in an offense designed to score points, performed better than the others. Ok. Griffin wasn't drafted because of his college stats, he was drafted because of his talent and potential, which is pretty phenomenal. It's why Texas Tech and Hawaii QBs aren't drafted #2 overall and Florence/Petty aren't/weren't viewed as close to the same prospects as Griffin. It's about talent not stats. You're post is really reaching for a way to discredit Griffin, in any way that you think you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGloryDays Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 My only question right now is how long should we roll with Griffin if he doesn't turn things around? 4 games? 8 games? 16 games? 24 games? 32 games? Jaws is telling us that he is regressing as a passer. My personal thoughts are that he will never recover from the 2012 injury. I still don't think he has his old legs. Some of the sacks he took in the preseason he would have escaped in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 My only question right now is how long should we roll with Griffin if he doesn't turn things around? 4 games? 8 games? 16 games? 24 games? 32 games? Jaws is telling us that he is regressing as a passer. My personal thoughts are that he will never recover from the 2012 injury. I still don't think he has his old legs. Some of the sacks he took in the preseason he would have escaped in 2012. His legs are fine. Did you notice that when Flacco was getting pressure that he didn't panic and would take the hit and deliver the ball? Our d-line was getting serious pressure but it didn't faze Flacco. That's what he needs to do more of, instead of trying to run around all the time and taking bad sacks. If he truly learns how to do this, he'll be fine. Of not, and I have the feeling it's just not in his nature to do so, he'll be on the bench after 8 games. Here is another thing no one wants to look at and why Griffin was really a product of his system in college. Here are some stats of Griffins two years at Baylor and the 2 following QB’s after him. Both of the following QB’s first years were much better than Griffins in rating and I would expect Griffin’s percentages to improve in his second year running the offense, which they did and led to a Heismann. Its obvious the system at Baylor is setup to produce numbers and everyone puts too much emphasis on Griffins numbers in that system because as you can tell, QB production barely dropped after he left and in reality they actually went up if you want to compare Florence’s and Petty’s first years compared to Griffins. comp/att %comp Yards TD Int Rating Griffin 2010 - 304/454 67% 3501 22 8 144 Griffin 2011 - 291/402 73% 4293 37 6 189 Florance 12 - 286/464 62% 4309 33 13 158 Petty 13 - 250/403 62% 4200 32 3 174 It goes to show that stats from Griffins college days are no big deal because practically every QB that comes into that system are going to rack those up and I’m surprised that redskin scouts didn’t take that into consideration. If anything, I think they severely over paid for Griffin based on these quarterback comparisons and probably is the reason why you will never see cousin start aka (saving face). It also goes to show that numbers can mislead someone about a player especially those coming out of college. It's hard to judge the QB's in The Big 12 because NO ONE plays any defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Are you kidding. Will the stupid comments ever end. Yes he did and we went 4-0 in preseason… Griffin takes over… 3-10. Hows does that make you feel now? If we stayed with cousins and kept the preseason rolling we were no where near 3-13 and with our weak a$$ division, we probably would have made the playoffs. Geez. I wouldn't be so quick to throw out the word stupid given these comments if I were you. The post you quoted was in direct response to a poster wondering how well Cousins would improve with first team reps. He was just pointing out that was indeed the case last year. Please try and keep up. So now we have you claiming a 4-0 preseason means something. How embarrassing. Next you claim a 3-13 team could have made the playoffs with Cousins, whose numbers were worse than Griffin in every single category. Awesome. The stupid just keeps coming. You do realized that Cousins went 0-3 in his starts at the end right? Saying those games were meaningless is the biggest excuse in this thread. They meant everything to Kirk Cousins. This was his golden chance to showcase himself and possibly land a starting job. So with his big chance he turned it over 9 times in 3 games against terrible defenses. That's 3 turnovers a game and this is your savoir that would have possibly turned a 3-13 team into a playoff team. Unbelievable. But by all means continue to hang your hat on one good game in Cleveland 2 years ago as well as the preseason and totally ignore everything else that has occurred. It makes you look so smart and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Because he’s made 1/2 the throws, mostly check downs. Stats mean nothing and they can easily be sugar coated. If you are going to throw stats around why don’t you throw in Interception and Touchdown Ratio? How about sack ratio? How about yards per pass? Don’t cherry pick man. OK let's use the stats you are asking for in this post and apply them to Griffin and Cousins from last year as that's what this thread is all abot. These were the passing stats you suggested above. Couldn't find a stat that shows sacks taken. I'm sure Griff has more issues there but I could not fine a stat to support that assumption. Now keep in mind this is the year when Griff played terribly and Cousins showed people like you that he is the answer: TD/INT Griffin: 16/12 Cousins: 4/7 Yards Per Attempt: Griffin: 7.0 Cousins 5.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 New article on NFL.com featuring analysis from Ron Jaworski, Griffins footwork and mechanics have regressed (per the article) I am unconcerned that Jaws believes Griffins mechanics have regressed because in 2012 he believed that Griffins mechanics were terrible. Jaws is one of those talking heads who seems to have a box all QBs must fit into and if they dont conform then they are bad by his logic. All i am concerned about is Robert getting his head right and i care less about stylistically if his form is terrible or fantasitc. All that really matters is results. As for when to pull the plug less than 20 months removed from an ACL learning a new offensive system I think we would be crazy and i mean bat-****-top-of-a-clock-tower-clown-suit-and-high-powered-rifle crazy to even talk in those terms until after this season. Those talking about 4 or 8 games are nuts. It will be mid season before this offense is really seen for what it is and it really clicks with the players - and i mean all the players not just those directly behind centre .... and you want to flush the QB chosen 2nd overall ROY after only 31 games... really ? If you then hand over the keys to Kirk Cousins how long does he get ... 4 games....1 game... a half until he throws his first interception or incompletion and then it is over to Colt McCoy for a couple of plays ? Seriously people This is not even his third season - panicing now makes us look like irrational self hating redskins fans... oh wait thats kind of ... never mind ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Are you kidding. Will the stupid comments ever end. Yes he did and we went 4-0 in preseason… Griffin takes over… 3-10. Hows does that make you feel now? If we stayed with cousins and kept the preseason rolling we were no where near 3-13 and with our weak a$$ division, we probably would have made the playoffs. Geez. Did you really just give credence to a 4-0 preseason record as some kind of accomplishment? Have you just been glossing over the numerous times people have stated in this thread that preseason in consequential to whether your team is good or not? No, you tell me exactly why a 4-0 record in preseason should indicate whether Cousins starting would've somehow not made our offensive line terrible, not made the defense embarassing, and not made our special teams a historical joke. I'll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 If a QB cannot complete passes nor win games because of his mechanics, yes Jaws can provide valid concerns. We have all seen unorthodox QB plays succeeding. Kosar and Manning, the sidearm. Jump throws. But Jaws is a mechanics purist, not a results based analyst. RG3 recently went back to mechanics school. Just like a golfer going back to school, things often get uglier before they get better. I am not concerned unless his throwing technique is causing losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Here is another thing no one wants to look at and why Griffin was really a product of his system in college. Here are some stats of Griffins two years at Baylor and the 2 following QB’s after him. Both of the following QB’s first years were much better than Griffins in rating and I would expect Griffin’s percentages to improve in his second year running the offense, which they did and led to a Heismann. Its obvious the system at Baylor is setup to produce numbers and everyone puts too much emphasis on Griffins numbers in that system because as you can tell, QB production barely dropped after he left and in reality they actually went up if you want to compare Florence’s and Petty’s first years compared to Griffins. comp/att %comp Yards TD Int Rating Griffin 2010 - 304/454 67% 3501 22 8 144 Griffin 2011 - 291/402 73% 4293 37 6 189 Florance 12 - 286/464 62% 4309 33 13 158 Petty 13 - 250/403 62% 4200 32 3 174 It goes to show that stats from Griffins college days are no big deal because practically every QB that comes into that system are going to rack those up and I’m surprised that redskin scouts didn’t take that into consideration. If anything, I think they severely over paid for Griffin based on these quarterback comparisons and probably is the reason why you will never see cousin start aka (saving face). It also goes to show that numbers can mislead someone about a player especially those coming out of college. You are so biased it's ridiculous. Where did numbers "go up'? Do you understand anything about football? The only number that went "up", is Florence's total yardage...by 16 yards....yet on 62 more passing attempts, 11% worse completion percentage, four less TDs, and 7 more INTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghosti Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 You are so biased it's ridiculous. Where did numbers "go up'? Do you understand anything about football? The only number that went "up", is Florence's total yardage...by 16 yards....yet on 62 more passing attempts, 11% worse completion percentage, four less TDs, and 7 more INTs. Its Its not biased… I said they barely lost production out of the QB in that system and based on all those numbers from each QB its obvious the system was 90% of their success. When each QB started their first year in that system, Griffin actually wasn’t the best out of the 3 but did do very well in it in his second year, which is what should be expected. Just accept it and deal with it. Did you really just give credence to a 4-0 preseason record as some kind of accomplishment? Have you just been glossing over the numerous times people have stated in this thread that preseason in consequential to whether your team is good or not? No, you tell me exactly why a 4-0 record in preseason should indicate whether Cousins starting would've somehow not made our offensive line terrible, not made the defense embarassing, and not made our special teams a historical joke. I'll wait. Yes, after he bashed Cousins for playing well in the last pre season. Anyone can pick and choose certain things to make their player look better but he was WAYYYYY off base in his comments in that one. His legs are fine. Did you notice that when Flacco was getting pressure that he didn't panic and would take the hit and deliver the ball? Our d-line was getting serious pressure but it didn't faze Flacco. That's what he needs to do more of, instead of trying to run around all the time and taking bad sacks. If he truly learns how to do this, he'll be fine. Of not, and I have the feeling it's just not in his nature to do so, he'll be on the bench after 8 games. It's hard to judge the QB's in The Big 12 because NO ONE plays any defense. You got it and that is what I was trying to say with the stats. The Big 12 is nothing compared to what Cousins played in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.