NFL.com: Cousins outplaying Griffin?

[RandyHolt]

Good stuff RG3Hunna, it's like the Shanahan's didn't try to develop RG3 at all. They almost exploited him for their own gain, playing him when injured, for instance. Making him run the ball a lot, including the triple option where he was exposed for big hits.

 

Perhaps some proof of who is better, RG3 could not outrun the slowest defender on the field a year ago, yet still was the starter for game 1. Cousins was shunned.

 

If i was in charge of his development yet had a win now directive from the owner, I would have used him to his Baylor strengths to try to stake the team to leads, and then with the lead in hand, try to let him make calls at the line, read the entire field, or whatever else he needed work on.

 

I still say it, it's like the Shanahans did everything pretty much backwards with respect to RG3, including playing him when clearly injured, benching him when finally healthy.

[Mahons21]

In my opinion we're pot committed to RG3.  I didn't like it when we traded for him, and I don't like it now, but the facts are the facts.  Unless RG3 plays like he did in Baltimore on a consistent basis, which I don't believe he will, he should be the starter for the next 32 games.

 

As far as Kirk's stats are concerned, if you understand statistics you would know that a four game sample size is not nearly large enough to get an accurate depiction of a player's performance.  Furthermore you must take into account the weather conditions in one of those four games, which would have made Peyton Manning look pedestrian.  With the combination of small sample size, and the impact the skewed performance has on the small sample size (accounting for 25% of his games), one should be able to recognize that Kirk's statistics don't accurately portray his performance. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

We hear all the time that coaches are supposed to put a player in the best position to succeed.  Successful coaches do not force players to conform to their system, they play to the player's strength.  The Shannahans did just that, now they are being called exploiters for their own gain? 

[skins island connection]

I'm not trying to be a dick here but he had a SPRAINED knee after the Baltimore game.  After the bad snap he had torn ligaments.  That's not an opinion, that's pretty much a fact. 

 

 My apologies if I may have said something the wrong way; its ME who has a knack for being a dick.

 

 This entire Griffin thing has gotten everyone on edge, taking sides [ supposedly ].

Griffin isn't bad, Cousins isn't bad, its some fans who appear to be more of a Griffin fan than a fan of the team. OR, maybe they're too emotionally invested in the guy that any threat is met with un-needed and unfair comparisons between the 2.

Both are talented, in their own way, why can't people just be happy for the team instead of a single person, is beyond me...

[Momma There Goes That Man]

^^^ I think for as many people that are just Griffin fans there are as many that do not like him at all and therefore support Cousins even at the detriment of the long term success of the Redskins.

I see Griffin supporters as being more farsighted and patient, willing to develop a long term franchise QB with elite talent

Cousins supporters either don't like Griffin or just want instant gratification, are impatient and short sighted.

Since we are going to paint with a broad brush this morning...

[Fat Stupid Loser]

This is actually his first time being trained to read the whole field, make audibles, change protection and operate from the pocket

This was my concern in giving up so much for him. Such a description of a player does not fit my definition (for whatever that is worth) of a second overall pick. Much less giving up an additional 2 firsts and a second to get him. My concerns remain valid in year 3.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

RG3 threw 10 interceptions in my game of madden 15 last night...hes gotta go.

Maybe you just suck lol

Jk

[clskinsfan]

This was my concern in giving up so much for him. Such a description of a player does not fit my definition (for whatever that is worth) of a second overall pick. Much less giving up an additional 2 firsts and a second to get him. My concerns remain valid in year 3.

 

You take a QB 2nd overall if the potential is there. Cam Newton had the same issues and he went number one. There is no denying Griffins natural RAW ability. I would have no problem with him being picked 2nd overall. My issue was with the other 2 first rounders he cost us. And as I have said before. He should have been developed from the beginning. Shannahan cost Griffin 2 years of development. If he is developed as a pocket passer does he injure his knee in year one? We will never know. It would have cost us the division title in 2012 for sure. But ig Griffin was heading into his 3rd season as a pocket passer we may win it this year instead. And Griffin has shown vast improvement in his pocket presence this pre season. I know there are A LOT of what ifs in this post. I guess the point I'm trying to make is we need to be patient. Griffin is gonna take his lumps this season. And some of those lumps will be huge. But for the long term. I hope they keep working on his development as a pocket passer.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

If RGIII was developed correctly in 2012 and 2013 we're talking Super Bowl, not division this year. Especialy if our defense isn't a pre-season mirage (I sorta think it is, Haslett is good at getting players to play hard and hit hard and the players like him, so he's good in vanilla versus vanilla, but he tends to get outschemed, but we do have lots of talent as well).

[mojo]

I'm not trying to be a dick here but he had a SPRAINED knee after the Baltimore game.  After the bad snap he had torn ligaments.  That's not an opinion, that's pretty much a fact. 

You're serious?  So Will Montgomery is responsible for blowing out RG3's knee because of one low snap?  This thread has officially gone from laughable to insane.

[Darrell Green Fan]

 My apologies if I may have said something the wrong way; its ME who has a knack for being a dick.

 

 This entire Griffin thing has gotten everyone on edge, taking sides [ supposedly ].

Griffin isn't bad, Cousins isn't bad, its some fans who appear to be more of a Griffin fan than a fan of the team. OR, maybe they're too emotionally invested in the guy that any threat is met with un-needed and unfair comparisons between the 2.

Both are talented, in their own way, why can't people just be happy for the team instead of a single person, is beyond me...

 

Oh no worries, you weren't acting like a dick. But as much as I agree with your post it does not really address my point, specifically that Williams' bad snap was as much to blame as anything else that happened that day,  But anyway that's old news, time to look forward.

 

For what it's worth I am firmly in the pro-Griffin camp.  I do not understand the love for a backup QBs whose numbers were worse acrosss the board than Griffin's last year and that was supposed to be a disaster for Griff   With that said I do have concerns about his ability to feel pressure, find the open receiver and get it to him on time. All this can improve with training but some of it I believe are things you either are born with or you are not,

[Fan since a Fetus]

Nuh, huh, he's the bad guy!  I know I watch the film.

 

Nuh, this guy's the bad guy!  I watch the film and I know what I am talkin about  yo!

 

Bro, this guy's the bad guy man!  I saw him do bad guy stuff!

 

You guys are forgetting about this bad guy!!!  He has been the most bad guy of the bad guys.  He has caused all other bad guys to become worser bad guys!

 

Well, the new bad guys are starting to do train stupidly with this bad guy.  This is some really stupid bad guy crap going on here.

 

You guys are all idiots - the main bad guy is this bad guy.

 

Screw you bro.

 

Why did you say screw you bro, I only call it like I see it.

 

AGHAGHAGHAGHAGHAGHAGHAGHAGHAGHAGHAGHAGHGHAGHAHGHAGHG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  There are bad guys everywhere!!! AGAGHAGHAGHAGHAGHAGHAGH~!

[wrecker]

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or

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or

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How curt.

[pjfootballer]

He didn't look bad against Dallas.  He didn't look good against Dallas.  He looked mediocre against them, but we were in position to win that game until our defense gave up a late TD to Dallas on 4th down which helped them seal up the victory.  The fact is, Cousins has always been put into a bad position when he got his starts.  The only start under his belt that happened when the team was still motivated and trying to win was against Cleveland in 2012.  All of his other starts and playing time, outside of the Browns and Ravens games, came under circus scenarios or dumpster fire situations. 

I have to disagree.  Shanny had cleaned out his office after the Seattle game and was ready to walk.  The whole season was a circus and a dumpster fire starting with training camp.  It didn't all of the sudden start with 3 games remaining.  I keep seeing this from some people, but it's just not true.  It started the day after the Seattle game.

[CrypticVillain]

A QB that can make yards running is always a concern BUT that is not the same thing as benefiting from read-option.

 

You appear to be suggesting the Griffin receives benefit from read-option play-action passing game so lets look at the NON-play action stats then?

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/06/11/qbs-in-focus-play-action/

 

Cousins 3 TDs/5 INTs/55% comp/65% acc/5.4 ypa/62 QB rating/ -6.1 PFF grade

Griffin---12 TDs/8 INTs/62% comp/75% acc/6.9 ypa/85 QB rating/ 2.2 PFF grade

 

I can do this all day no matter which stat you want to cherry pick because Griffin is better in every aspect, including "pocket passing"

[Fat Stupid Loser]

You take a QB 2nd overall if the potential is there. Cam Newton had the same issues and he went number one. There is no denying Griffins natural RAW ability. I would have no problem with him being picked 2nd overall. My issue was with the other 2 first rounders he cost us. And as I have said before. He should have been developed from the beginning. Shannahan cost Griffin 2 years of development. If he is developed as a pocket passer does he injure his knee in year one? We will never know. It would have cost us the division title in 2012 for sure. But ig Griffin was heading into his 3rd season as a pocket passer we may win it this year instead. And Griffin has shown vast improvement in his pocket presence this pre season. I know there are A LOT of what ifs in this post. I guess the point I'm trying to make is we need to be patient. Griffin is gonna take his lumps this season. And some of those lumps will be huge. But for the long term. I hope they keep working on his development as a pocket passer.

I agree. I'm not sure how much I'm in the Shanahan's the DEVIL camp. They tailored an offense to his skill set. Many here are still calling for that instead of trying to make him something he is not (yet). Most of us were slobbering all over Shanny's butt for most of 2012 for "righting the ship", creating a brilliant offense that highlighted our superstar's talents. Now in hindsight he is the DEVIL. Primarily because the reality set in that running QB's, however successful they are at times, don't work long in the NFL.

There's a reason the "prototypical" QB exists. Its because the NFL game has developed over the years to a level of sophistication that a successful QB has to be able to do all of the "prototypical" things at a high level, or he won't last long. The college QB just has to be on a better team or be better than the sophomore he is playing on the other side.

What's the likelihood that Robert or anyone, no matter the talent, can catch up on things he has never learned before now while playing against this level of talent? He could be the special one or one of the many who get physically or mentally broken before they catch up.

[Darrell Green Fan]

You're serious?  So Will Montgomery is responsible for blowing out RG3's knee because of one low snap?  This thread has officially gone from laughable to insane.

 

You've seen the play right?  It all started with a bad snap. Griff went down to handle it, tried to get out of trouble, got crunched and lay on the groung in a heap.   Prior to that he had a sprained knee, after the play he lay wrecked.  Or are you claiming that Griff started that last drive with 2 torn knee ligaments?  Or did you not see the play as I did because IMO a good snap there and he gets out of the play, and probably the seaso, with an injury that is fixed in a month or 2.

[mojo]

Yes I've seen the play and I think everyone knows his knee was wrecked already. It was obvious he hurt it again on the 1st drive and never was the same. By your train of thought, RG3 caused Reed's concussions last year by throwing the ball to him.

[RandyHolt]

 

They tailored an offense to his skill set.

 

That's a laugh.

 

Instead of tailoring the offense to his skill set on display when we all became enamored with him, and adopting some of what Baylor did, they chose to adopt the Nevada Read Option. 

 

We did not draft him to run the ball.

 

In no particular order:

 

Ignored his domination in hurry up / extreme Up Tempo, and basically ran the offense as slow as possible. Only implemented hurry up out of extreme desperation, losing vs Oakland after weeks of offensive futility to start games. The kicker? Not using hurry up more, after having tremendous success in his limited showings. Shelving it, immediately after any success whatsoever.

 

Spread Formations including 4 or 5 wide, instead lined up WRs in the backfield, or bunched immediately off tackle. Allowing a myriad of potential blitzers very close to Robert, that our OL would be forced to figure out presnap. Robert had NO problem throwing from the pocket in college, in true wide formations. He dominated. A slap in the face, Cousins got to use it in his 3 games.

 

Mobility, a key to Roberts game. Yet Kyle somehow ignored his mobility in the passing game, and used him as a running back only. The high school grade Triple Option. Despite there being injury concerns coming out, and knee injuries in both years. Kyle ignored any semblance of an offense that used Roberts wheels in the passing game. We were lucky to get one sprint out, rollout or bootleg. Per game. Combined.  The OL struggled to create a pocket all last year, yet Robert was confined there.

 

The offense was maybe tailored to Pierre Garcon. Otherwise I have no idea what Kyle was trying to do. It looked like he wanted Robert to fail more than succeed. It was very odd.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

That's a laugh.

This post was 100% spot on (applause)

It's a myth that the Shanahans designed an offense around Griffin's skill set just because they took a concept Baylor rarely used and ran Griffin until his legs fell off.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Maybe you just suck lol

Jk

Well...yeah. That's true.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

This post was 100% spot on (applause)

It's a myth that the Shanahans designed an offense around Griffin's skill set just because they took a concept Baylor rarely used and ran Griffin until his legs fell off.

 

The vast majority of the people saying he's a one read never watched Robert Griffin III in college. I said at the time that I'd have drafted RGIII over Luck if RGIII ran a 4.9 as opposed to a 4.3 and I hold to that today. He was a DYNAMIC passer, not a rich man's game manager on a team full of NFL starters. He won games with his arm, as opposed to simply riding a dominant run game and OL.

 

It does say a lot about why the Shanahans traded for him though. They wanted Mike Vick, not Steve Young, because making him Steve Young would take work the Shanahans weren't prepared to put in.

[darrelgreenie]

In my opinion we're pot committed to RG3.  I didn't like it when we traded for him, and I don't like it now, but the facts are the facts.  Unless RG3 plays like he did in Baltimore on a consistent basis, which I don't believe he will, he should be the starter for the next 32 games.

 

As far as Kirk's stats are concerned, if you understand statistics you would know that a four game sample size is not nearly large enough to get an accurate depiction of a player's performance.  Furthermore you must take into account the weather conditions in one of those four games, which would have made Peyton Manning look pedestrian.  With the combination of small sample size, and the impact the skewed performance has on the small sample size (accounting for 25% of his games), one should be able to recognize that Kirk's statistics don't accurately portray his performance. 

IF the sample size is too small then its to small to decide anything positive or negative.

The sample size cannot be adequate to say Cousins looked good but not adequate to say Cousins looked bad.

 

The stats are the stats. There is always a story behind the stats. But if you're looking at stats you gotta play it the same.

If you're gonna rationalize Cousins stats then you also have to rationalize Griffin's stats i.e. coming off a knee injury, limited offseason, coaching staff and overall team discord etc. Then you also have to look at strength of opponent and clearly Cousins faced cup cakes the last 3 games.

 

As far as looking pedestrain in the rain iirc it was raining when Mike Vick lit us up like a pinball machine. Personally I don't like to remember but i'm pretty sure it was raining in that game. And weather shouldn't be an excuse for QB play because Griffin played KC during a snow storm and detractors don't mention that when they mention the KC game.

[skins island connection]

Oh no worries, you weren't acting like a dick. But as much as I agree with your post it does not really address my point, specifically that Williams' bad snap was as much to blame as anything else that happened that day,  But anyway that's old news, time to look forward.

 

For what it's worth I am firmly in the pro-Griffin camp.  I do not understand the love for a backup QBs whose numbers were worse acrosss the board than Griffin's last year and that was supposed to be a disaster for Griff   With that said I do have concerns about his ability to feel pressure, find the open receiver and get it to him on time. All this can improve with training but some of it I believe are things you either are born with or you are not,

 

 There may be fans of Cousins who dislike Griffin, and vice versa.

The main point i'm trying to get some to understand is this;

Griffin has had, what, 29 starts, has the lion's share of 1st rep practices, etc, and he's not playing good football, bad footwork, throwing off back foot, holding ball too long, etc, and some say 'this is his first offseason training camp, he needs time and work to get in sync with everything.

 Then you have Cousins, who has had 4 starts, limited first team reps [ comparitively speaking ] and has made some bad decisions just as Griffin, and some call him a bum, he's no good, ain't worth a ham sammich, etc.

 

Its a double standard to the extreme. Griffin is claimed to need the OTAs training camp so he'll perform better but Cousins who hasn't had nearly the attention of a starting QB in training camp, and some turn their back on him. How, in any sensible way, is that a fair assessment to make on Cousins? There's no possible way to justify it; no numbers, metrics, nothing, to make it a fair comparison.

 

If there's something that i'm not getting, please, someone inform me of it, but I just don't see how someone who has had 1/8 of the starts can be fairly judged as he is.

This is the reason why some take a stance, and maybe some bitterness, towards Griffin.  Its not about 'hating' a player, its about giving another player the same opportunities and THEN make an assessment.

[darrelgreenie]

Shanahans:

 

I have no issue with how the Shanahan's chose to use Griffin. They used his running ability and his passing ability. Griffin's success his rookie year was/is historic. It was a tour de force of how 1 dynamic player's  physical skillset player can lift an entire offense. I have no problem with read-option.

 

However, in year 2 the problem imho wasn't read-option. Read-option clearly still works as evidenced by the success of Seattle and the 49ers offenses (2 name a couple of the many). My issues was with the gameplan and playcalling.

 

The passing game concepts were simple. This fact was pointed out by analyst that liked the offense. But that's not even my major gripe because Griffin still managed to be above average on 3rd down.

 

My issues came with 1st half and opening series offense gameplans that were PREDICTABLE. It relied on the same play-action concepts as the year before and those plays were well defensed. This is evident by the drop in Griffin's play-action numbers from year 1 to year 2. Unless you believe Griffin suddenly went from being tops in the league using play-action to near the bottom something is obviously amiss. I understand discussing gameplan and playcalling is an esoteric and slippery venture but clearly there were issues there. But all that is in the past.

 

If spread QBs like Cam Newton and Andy Dalton can have success as rookies and spread QBs like Nick Foles can have success in their 2nd years I have literally no concern that Griffin will have success this year. However you choose to label passing success i.e. "pocket passing" or whatever, lol