NFL.com: Cousins outplaying Griffin?

[ncr2h]

"Game manager" is a mindset, not simply a function of circumstance or measure of talent. RG3 has had an excellent running game his entire stint in Washington and it has been the cornerstone of this team. Therefore, the offense has been called that way. RG3 isn't wired up to be a game manager, and if he were, he would think a lot smaller than he currently does. Great game managers consistently minimize turnovers and know when to throw the ball away.

I don't think either of our QBs are game managers. Certainly not Cousins, who is a classic gunslinger.

The running game hasn't been a cornerstone of the Team, it's been a cornerstone of what we choose to do on offense when the alternative is having RG3 air it out all game. When Cousins is in, we consistently pass far more than we run. Whether we're dominating (Browns), coming from behind (Falcons), or getting our asses whooped (Giants). For some reason, the coaches see RG3 and Alfred Morris and their instinct is "run". When they see Kirk Cousins and Alfred Morris, they call a pass. One guy's job is to not turn the ball over, and hand it off to our pro bowl back. The other guy's job is to make something happen with his arm.

[Taylor703]

In his entire college and pro (and likely high school) career, Robert Griffin has won 2 games in which the pass/run ratio was greater than 50/50. Two Games. The first was against Sam Houston State, in which his team forced 3 turnovers. The second was his rookie season against Tampa Bay. In that game, he passed it 35 times and we ran it 31 times, so this was hardly a gunslinging showdown.

You would think a guy with blue chip NFL caliber passing talent would have accomplished that more times, especially playing the likes of Sam Houston State every year while throwing to a future NFL 1600+ yard receiver and another first rounder. You would think the coach would just press the "easy" button, and have his big time NFL passing prospect air it out all game instead of exposing the guy to horrific injuries by running him 500+ times. Your team is 1 hit away from Nick florence being your QB, for chrissakes.

2 games. Sam Houston State. Tampa. That's it.

Cousins did that in his first NFL start, was 1 play away from doing it again his second start, and did it 5 times in college, going against the likes of Ohio State and Wisconsin every year. He had a future 1st round running back in his backfield and was throwing to a bunch of nobodies, but his coach still dialed up his number to win them games.

Who's the game manager? Cousins did in his first game what Griffin has done only once in 28 starts, and only twice in (likely) his lifetime.

Griffin has accounted for over 40 TD and 8K yards in two seasons, he's not a game manager and your schtick is getting very old.

[ghosti]

Just out of curiosity, have you seen some of the stats that have been posted here to refute the "Cousins is better than Griffin in the pocket" meme? Cousins won't get more practice time with the 1st team because he is not on the 1st team and won't be the starter so why limit Griffin's snaps to placate a bunch of people on ES who think Cousins should be the starter? He has had one good game, one decent one (against a team that openly admitted they had phoned it in and were trying out their young players, especially in the secondary), and some poor ones. His stats suck and even if you don't believe in stats, it doesn't change the fact that they exist and they do have meaning.

 

Why would a backup QB get a chance to start after one good game? That isn't generally how it works. I like Cousins but he fell to the 4th round for a reason and he was passed on last year by other NFL teams as a trade opportunity for a reason. 

 

God the regular season can't come soon enough. 

Why?  Because the starting QB hasn't looked like a starting qb for practically a whole season and all of pre-season.  Do you even know why people are calling for Cousins to start?  Its not because Cousins is lighting it up in preseason, even though its obvious he is improving, its because Griffin hasn’t even shown up by the looks of it.  This argument is pretty simple… Griffin plays better in his 3rd year or its time for a new direction.  We have an amazing receiver corps and backfield and if we’re barely winning games and not scoring at least 25 points per game plus with these guys, its all QB.  I’ll give a little until the line is worked out but most of those sacks are coming after the 3 second mark and the ball should be gone anyways.  No more excuses.  If you don’t see why, I’m not sure what games you are watching. 

[UK Skins]

Wasn't it John Gruden that said during last week's game that Cousins would become the starter at some point during the season. It may have been the other guy (don't know his name, I was watching on GamePass) but that's a pretty strong statement either way.

 

Of course if it was John, perhaps his brother has said something over family lunch

[darrelgreenie]

ncr2h's ability to throw out the mountain of stats that show Griffin performed better and cherry pick anecdotal stats is amazing and silly.

Coaches call plays to win games not for their QB to pass more then they throw. SMH.

And let's not forget the Shanahan's had a vested interest in showcasing Cousins passing. They wanted to be vindicated for benching Griffin yet Cousins level of play didnt in fact it lowered Cousins trade value and was likely the straw that got him fired.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Why?  Because the starting QB hasn't looked like a starting qb for practically a whole season and all of pre-season.  Do you even know why people are calling for Cousins to start?  Its not because Cousins is lighting it up in preseason, even though its obvious he is improving, its because Griffin hasn’t even shown up by the looks of it.  This argument is pretty simple… Griffin plays better in his 3rd year or its time for a new direction.  We have an amazing receiver corps and backfield and if we’re barely winning games and not scoring at least 25 points per game plus with these guys, its all QB.  I’ll give a little until the line is worked out but most of those sacks are coming after the 3 second mark and the ball should be gone anyways.  No more excuses.  If you don’t see why, I’m not sure what games you are watching. 

 

I don't know how you can say "it's all QB" when they are trotting out an OL lke this.  After Watts, Cushing and Clowney come in free all day long are you really going to put it all on the QB?  And you are ready to bail on this kind of talent after year 3?  After a record setting rookie season and a seaon he played hurt?  No that's not a panic.  So what's Plan B since he is so easy to replace?  We've been looking for the next Sonny since, well, Sonny. 

[mistertim]

ncr2h's ability to throw out the mountain of stats that show Griffin performed better and cherry pick anecdotal stats is amazing and silly.

Coaches call plays to win games not for their QB to pass more then they throw. SMH.

And let's not forget the Shanahan's had a vested interest in showcasing Cousins passing. They wanted to be vindicated for benching Griffin yet Cousins level of play didnt in fact it lowered Cousins trade value and was likely the straw that got him fired.

No kidding. I have to admit that his single minded stubbornness in that regard is rather impressive in a way. It takes a lot of time to go through stats and find some completely arbitrary correlation that "proves" his point.

[skins island connection]

 

Again what has Cousiins, or any other 3rd year backup, done to deserve equal practice time with the starters?   He got to start 3 games when the starter, the defending Offensive Rookie of the Year, could have played.  Can you name one other backup 3rd year QB player in the history of the NFL that was given such an opportunity?.   No Cousins has nothing to complain about. 

 

You're not grasping what i'm saying.

Why do people get so damn sensitive mentioning ANYTHING outside of Griffin being god? He's nowhere close to being a very good QB; if you want to believe Griffin is fine and its just everything else in the world wrong, be my guest.

 

I said 'IF'  cousins had the 1st team reps etc that Griffin has had, he'd be a better QB. People keep turning their head because they just have no answer for this; and understandibly so. In fact, no one knows for sure; no one. But i'd put money down that says Cousins would be more efficient and a better QB overall if he had the 1st team reps, OTA, etc, that the wonderful Griffin has had. But he hasn't, so no one can say that Cousins is garbage or no good; anyone who does is looking through Griffin glasses, worried obviously that if it did happen, maybe, just maybe, Cousins would end up being the starter.

 

Griffin will put this all to rest, one way or another; if he comes out and plays good, then great, and i'll be happy that the REDSKINS are winning, not the Griffins and that team from Washington, as some view him.

But if he doesn't, there will be a long line of people behind Cousins, and i'll be one of them; because he deserves a chance, just as Griffin got his.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Didn't Cousins get all the reps last offseason?

And the preseason?

[mistertim]

Didn't Cousins get all the reps last offseason?

And the preseason?

That's actually a pretty good point. 

 

Either way, the "if this then that could be" game could be played anywhere for any player. Remember the Cult of Colt? "If he only had a chance and got to work with the 1st team I bet he would be great...look how good he looked in the preseason!". The main difference between Cousins and Colt is that we've seen Cousins play with the 1st team and the results were, at best, mediocre.

 

There's always someone who would "put money down" that x or y 2nd or 3rd string player could be great if only they would get the chance. Nothing new to see here, really. If Griffin struggles badly down the stretch then it is what it is and we'll see what Gruden decides to do. I doubt it will happen but I certainly can't see into the future. I'll wait and see what happens.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I agree.

At the end of the day, I just want to win. I don't think KC can supply that so if RG3 isn't the guy, we're ****ed

[RG3Hunna]

We hear all the time that coaches are supposed to put a player in the best position to succeed.  Successful coaches do not force players to conform to their system, they play to the player's strength.  The Shannahans did just that, now they are being called exploiters for their own gain? 

Yes you tailor your offense to your players skill set but at the same time you also develop the skills your player is weak at ESPECIALLY at the QB spot. They didn't even have him calling his own protection or being able to audible, how can a QB succeed like that if they aren't given an opportunity to audible? They didn't even give him a safety valve in the flats, what young QB doesn't even have a safety valve in his offense?

 

The whole Shanahan regime drafted a LOT of good players for us and they deserve credit but they have been absolutely TERRIBLE in regards to player development. The reports in regards to the drastic difference between coaching staffs is proof of that. 

 

Jay Gruden is forcing RGIII to take a step back and throwing things at him(Audible, Reading full field, reseting pass protection, looking off safeties/linebackers, drilling the use of the flats) and RGIII will become the great QB we've always dreamed of having because of it. 

[J-bomb]

Who saw the graphic put up by ESPN comparing RG3,peyton,eli and drew brees first 2 yrs? Very interesting for those that want to jump ship and go with a backup qb.

They compared tds,ints and overall win record

[Darrell Green Fan]

You're not grasping what i'm saying.

Why do people get so damn sensitive mentioning ANYTHING outside of Griffin being god? He's nowhere close to being a very good QB; if you want to believe Griffin is fine and its just everything else in the world wrong, be my guest.

 

I said 'IF'  cousins had the 1st team reps etc that Griffin has had, he'd be a better QB. People keep turning their head because they just have no answer for this; and understandibly so. In fact, no one knows for sure; no one. But i'd put money down that says Cousins would be more efficient and a better QB overall if he had the 1st team reps, OTA, etc, that the wonderful Griffin has had. But he hasn't, so no one can say that Cousins is garbage or no good; anyone who does is looking through Griffin glasses, worried obviously that if it did happen, maybe, just maybe, Cousins would end up being the starter.

 

Griffin will put this all to rest, one way or another; if he comes out and plays good, then great, and i'll be happy that the REDSKINS are winning, not the Griffins and that team from Washington, as some view him.

But if he doesn't, there will be a long line of people behind Cousins, and i'll be one of them; because he deserves a chance, just as Griffin got his.

 

I understand what you are saying.  And yes it is possible that Cousins would be better with first team reps.  Edit:. I had originally posted how Cousins did in fact get all the first team reps last year but then I saw that Brave had already pointed that out.  How'd that work out?  His passing numbers actually regressed from 2012 to 2013.

 

I'm simply explaining why what you are asking is simply not realistic nor deserved.  Again why would the team give Kirk Cousins first team reps at this point in time?  Based on one game in Cleveland?   It is incredible how fans continue to hang their hats on this game and how he looked in meaningless preseason games.  This is typical fan overreaction to the backup QB.  People who get paid to make these decision never do what you are suggesting.  And there is a reason for that. 

[RandyHolt]

We live in an era of instant gratification.

 

Sure the playoff successes of Kap or Wilson make people expect more from RG3, but they have to give RG3 some credit for his rookie year. Even against the vaunted Seattle defense, we were up 14 to start that game. He looked damn good in that first quarter before he got injured, and of course should have been yanked. Despite both he and Garcon being shadows of their normal selves after that first quarter, we hung tough.

 

My point, RG3 was pretty darn close to winning a playoff game, reaffirming himself firmly beside Wilson and Kap as comparables, for anyone like me, that heavily grades playoff performances over lets say, preseason.

 

Mike really blew it, big time. That was the logical time to turn to Cousins, and if he had playoff success, his trade value would have shot up, maybe skyrocketed.  Cousins had shown that he could be a pinch hitter. Teams were not prepared for him. Pump him up like an IPO.

 

Cousins did get in late backed up deep with a chance at some late game heroics, but under extreme pressure, failed. No one had the expectation that he would win the game for us, so no one holds that against him, but Cousins had a chance, down just 7. He went 3 for 10 for 31 yards, they added a late FG, and we lost by 10.

 

If posters want to grade Cousins vs Griffin in preseason work, great have at it.  I think one could also take a moment to compare their playoff resumes, as well. The Big Show.

[skins island connection]

Didn't Cousins get all the reps last offseason?

And the preseason?

 

 I'm not sure on that; I just don't have that info, so this may be true.

 But consider he was put into the last 3 games last year when most of the team had packed it in for the year, the games had no meaning to them at all, and throw in a stormy game with players who would rather be somewhere else, yea, I could see his #s not being stellar. But he did give the team a chance to win had it not been for the lovely defense in the other games.

 

He got the reps because Griffin was out; thats the reason why. Someone had to step in and fill the spot of QB. But he is still the back-up QB. Give him the fair chance to compete for the starting QB position after this season [ if Griffin doesn't progress ] and let the chips lay where they fall. If he doesn't cut it, then fine; at least he had a fair shot at it.

 

if he stepped in and lit it up against every team he played against, would it change anyone's stance? Absolutely not, because its Griffin's team to lose, not Cousins to win. But don't give Griffin 28 games and say he needs time and give Cousins 4 and make a judgement; its simply not fair.

 

I didn't care for Jason Campbell; I thought he stunk on rye, but there were fans who kept making excuses for him, and Campbell had what, 4 or 5 years?  This shouldn't be the same situation for Griffin; he's been praised and revered as the second coming, greatest QB to play the game, etc,  and i'm starting to see similar excuses for Griffin that I saw with Campbell; personally, they shouldn't be made for Cousins either, in all fairness, but this year it'll be 'new coach', 'new system', next year it will be o-line sucks, next year it'll be something else. 

[dsciambi]

Jay Gruden is forcing RGIII to take a step back and throwing things at him(Audible, Reading full field, reseting pass protection, looking off safeties/linebackers, drilling the use of the flats) and RGIII will become the great QB we've always dreamed of having because of it. 

 

I had no issues with the rest of your post, but comments like this keep popping up and they're absolutely ridiculous statements to make. I can appreciate being optimistic, but you can't say without a doubt that RG3 will become great. You have no idea if he's capable of being even an average NFL QB over the next decade. He may be the next Sammy Baugh, or he may be out of the league in 2 weeks.

[KokoMike]

 ...i'm starting to see similar excuses for Griffin that I saw with Campbell; personally, they shouldn't be made for Cousins either, in all fairness, but this year it'll be 'new coach', 'new system', next year it will be o-line sucks, next year it'll be something else. 

I haven't heard anyone credibly use any excuse about Griffin about new coach, new system, next year it will be the o-line sucks; next year it will be something else. (I mean it is pre-season.  A lot of players in the NFL have sucked this pre-season.)

 

I believe you are presenting a false narrative.  A lot of people are making this argument up, seemingly in the hope and interest that they may be right.

 

With Campbell, it came down greatly to him dumping the ball off almost every play, and almost always on third down, coming up short.  Good stats, but not a winner.  Not a risk taker.  With Campbell, it has been more of the same with the other teams since he left the Skns.

 

Griffin, to this point, has proven he is willing to lay it on the line for the team.  Indeed, he wants the team to lay it on the line for him, too.  

 

Of course, his collective detractors call that blaming others and not taking responsibility.  That argument is spurious.

 

We'll see soon enough.  But, his detractors will continue regardless, as it is their right and intent to do so.

[tbt]

if he stepped in and lit it up against every team he played against, would it change anyone's stance? Absolutely not, because its Griffin's team to lose, not Cousins to win.

Come on, you know that isn't true. Remember Kaepernick coming in for Alex Smith? Harbaugh going with the QB "with the hot hand"... I'm not saying the 9ers fanbase was as enamored with Smith as the Skins fans are with Griff, but if Cousins played substantially/obviously better, a lot of this perceived fanaticism would dry right up. I think most of us care far more about winning than the success of any one player.

[clskinsfan]

Jaworski thinks RG3's mechanics have regressed. I would tend to agree with him since the injury. He also questions weather he can process information fast enough. But if its just his mechanics that need work we are in good shape. That can be taught. If its intelligence, which I think is total BS, we are screwed.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Jaworski thinks RG3's mechanics have regressed. I would tend to agree with him since the injury. He also questions weather he can process information fast enough. But if its just his mechanics that need work we are in good shape. That can be taught. If its intelligence, which I think is total BS, we are screwed.

 

I goitta admit I have questons about his football IQ too as I see him run to the sidelines and take a 5 yard loss when the rules say you can throw it away and not get called for a penalty.  Is that inexperience or not?  We'll find out.

[skins island connection]

I haven't heard anyone credibly use any excuse about Griffin about new coach, new system, next year it will be the o-line sucks; next year it will be something else. (I mean it is pre-season.  A lot of players in the NFL have sucked this pre-season.)

 

I believe you are presenting a false narrative.  A lot of people are making this argument up, seemingly in the hope and interest that they may be right.

 

With Campbell, it came down greatly to him dumping the ball off almost every play, and almost always on third down, coming up short.  Good stats, but not a winner.  Not a risk taker.  With Campbell, it has been more of the same with the other teams since he left the Skns.

 

Griffin, to this point, has proven he is willing to lay it on the line for the team.  Indeed, he wants the team to lay it on the line for him, too.  

 

Of course, his collective detractors call that blaming others and not taking responsibility.  That argument is spurious.

 

We'll see soon enough.  But, his detractors will continue regardless, as it is their right and intent to do so.

 

 Well, I was saying that this is more than likely is what will happen; no, nothing like this has happened yet, and it shouldn't, that would not be fair to Griffin.

 Now, Campbell, that kid looked lost on the field. I saw way too many of his passes sail way way out of bounds, some ending up in the stands, and those types of excuses came from people who were emotionally invested in him, apparently.

 

What bothers me is the unfair treatment Cousins has gotten from this fanbase. He's done nothing wrong to Griffin, the team, or the fans, but these same types of detractors try using unbalanced stats and play time and make an unfair assessment of him, and in the same breath say that Griffin needs time to get acclimated. Now that has no sensible merit to it.

 

And i'm not a detractor towards Griffin or anyone else; but I believe that if Griffin is not playing good, and/or not progressing, unless the team wants to ride the entire season with him and wave bye to any chance of playoffs, they should switch QBs. But then what happens next year if the same issues keep coming back; maybe a better way to put it, how long do you ride with Griffin before pride is swallowed and someone else is put in? This is where I was referring to the other excuses coming out, and they will.

[GoldSkinner]

I goitta admit I have questons about his football IQ too as I see him run to the sidelines and take a 5 yard loss when the rules say you can throw it away and not get called for a penalty.  Is that inexperience or not?  We'll find out.

 

There's football IQ and then there's processing/executing information correctly and quickly under live fire. Sure, he'll be able to tell you calmly in a class setting or during no-contact practice that the right thing to do is to throw the ball away, but his actions might not reflect as such in a real time situation. Reminds me of that scene from the movie "Glory" where one of the soldiers was demonstrating proudly his superb marksmanship to the other soldiers and his commanding officers, but when his colonel arrived and asked the soldier to repeat his marksmanship demonstration (all while repeatedly firing a pistol close to the soldier's ear to better simulate a proper combat situation), the soldier faltered miserably.

[arice]

Bottom line...RGIII plays poorly and we end up 2-5 or 2-6 there is going to be a big cry for Cousins to play.  Cousins plays well and next year we will have a real open competition for QB!! 

[RG3Gruden]

Im a white guy, but i have to ask why does the media enjoy trolling black qbs so much. Qbs such as geno, cam, and rg3 are super young, but get a lot of negative press... I started noticing this cams rookie year with (towelgate), and it has continued with the likes of geno, kaepernick and now rg3

The cheifs 1st team has not scored a td at all this preseason, but nobody talks about it... Sam Bradford and Jake Locker have had so many failures but have been allowed to develop... I sometimes think that rookie black qbs are under more pressure to produce right awsy than their peers... The media was ready to pounce on both rg3 and newton their first game if they struggled.. Meanwhile in Andrew Lucks first game.. He threw 4 picks and they came up with every excuse in the book made for him....

I also dont believe that cam, geno, kaep, or rg3 would get no serious negative press if they threw 8 interceptions in a single postseason like Luck did year... He flat out got a pass

Certain young qbs must produce right away or their job becomes in jeopardy and other young qbs are allowed to learn from their mistakes and develop... Sad