TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Hey Lombardi's_kid_brother you forgot about Garcon's passion for the Twilight series. I overheard Garcon smiling and saying one time "I want to sparkle and shimmer in the sunlight just like Edward." I knew there was something to this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Jacoby Jones, Owen Daniels would be other targets, I do believe they were all there at the same time?.The discussion is about WRs not TEs, who btw have been productive under Kyle. Jacoby is nothing special at WR. Even when handed the #2 job in Baltimore he was out performed by an UDRFA WR Marlon Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I wouldn't count on Hank being a contributing member this season. His injury was nasty. I like the guy more than most, but I'm trying to be realistic. We need a solid #2. Also, I find it a little easy to blame Kyle/Shanny for not getting much out of our WRs. I think that you can certainly debate this topic, but not to the extent where I think we have a couple of studs on our roster that they overlooked or just didn't use correctly. In short, I think we know plenty about our WRs. Enough certainly to know that we need to upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I want us to draft a WR who has hands and can run routes. You always hear, "but can he get open" -- seems to me it's the speed burners who can't run routes who can't get open. Jerry Rice and Gary Clark had no trouble getting open - and they were not known for speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 A lot of this also has to do with the type of offense this team plans to run, and weather the defense gets better. Look at the WR core Seattle just won the super bowl with? Of course to go that route, you'd need a #1 defense which this team is FAR AND AWAY from being, and a monster running game, which they do have most of the time. I think what people confuse is the need for elite WRs and WRs who make plays when given the opportunity. Most teams don't have crazy good WR cores, they have a good #1, and other guys who step up on when they are given opportunities, even if/when their overall numbers for the season don't reflect a big-time WR's stats. The problem with our WRs is they seem to come up lame when they get golden opportunities in games, whether it is drops, or falling down, or not running good routes, not coming back to the ball, not getting the extra inches for a first down due to bad routes etc etc etc......It is the small things that make some WR cores better than others because the majority of teams don't have a roster full of great ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 We know Pierre Garcon is good. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Hank won't play next year and may not be full go the next year either. We have two WRs pretty much. We should draft two, one high, one low and sign one. This has been a major issue for us forever. FS, ILB, G, T are also major needs, but WR is as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I think we draft a WR early (2nd or 3rd) and grab a TE in the (4th or 5th). Davis isn't coming back, Reed has had concussion issues and Paulson, while being a good blocking TE isn't what Gruden uses in his system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins55 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 There's maybe 5-6 of those in the entire league though. On a team devoid of WR talent opposite him (and questionable QB play this year), to do what Garcon does is highly impressive. On that front, I would concur that he'd prosper with another guy on the other side, but who wouldn't? And I would argue that routes he runs are a function of Kyle's offense rather than Garcon's inability to run them. He's got the speed, he's physical enough to run any route you wanna run, and he can make tough catches. I want you to see just how far behind we are at the WR position. There are well more than 5-6 elite receivers in the league. And many of these receivers had worse QB play than we did. Calvin Johnson Julio Jones Roddy White Vincent Jackson Larry Fitzgerald Brandon Marshal Alshon Jefferies Demarious Thomas Michael Crabtree Dez Bryant Andre Johnson Reggie Wayne DeSean Jackson Josh Gordon Jordy Nelson Steve Smith Marques Colston Keenan Allen AJ Green You could argue with maybe 2 of these receivers but I don't see Garçon being better than the rest of these WRs. So that means our best WR isn't even in the top 15 of the league's #1's. We need to really get him help because he's not good enough to carry the passing game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 We know Aldrick Robinson will be back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Michael Crabtree Don't try to play this argument with a sorry WR like Crabtree lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Don't try to play this argument with a sorry WR like Crabtree lol You shouldn't judge Crabtree off of a stretch of games coming back from an Achilles (in less than a year!). Crabtree is a very good WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 There are so few dominant WRs in the league, its unfair to compare Garcon to them. If this past year didn't prove what his worth is, nothing will. Sure, he's no Fitz or Megatron, but either is anyone else. How often do you see one of them hit FA either? Close enough to never. Maybe next year we'll have a pick high enough, but right now Garcon is a #1 to us and he proved it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasSkinsFan Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 HF- good lord, man. nobody noticed because he caught one TD the rest of the entire season both times. look at my post above- i'm not a hank hater. i still hope he can be a contributor. but, the reason he doesnt get the love is cuz he hasnt produced. Garcon didn't get in the probowl this year after leading the league in catches because he only caught 5 TD's all season. Hankerson has 3 less TD's in the past two seasons then Garcon, he has caught however 89 less passes then Garcon. Hank won't play next year and may not be full go the next year either. We have two WRs pretty much. We should draft two, one high, one low and sign one. This has been a major issue for us forever. FS, ILB, G, T are also major needs, but WR is as well. http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/11/25/injury-expert-highly-likely-hankerson-will-be-ready-for-2014-season/ Hankerson has been placed on season-ending injury reserve with an estimated 7-9 month recovery period. Under such a timetable, Hankerson is forecast to return sometime between late June and late August and will be a player to watch as training camp nears. Much like Robert Griffin III and Adrian Peterson have shown in each of the two previous seasons, the prognosis is that the Miami-product is “highly likely” be ready for 2014 season barring setbacks, according to sports injury expert Dr. Ray Solano. Where are you hearing he won't play next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 You shouldn't judge Crabtree off of a stretch of games coming back from an Achilles (in less than a year!). Crabtree is a very good WR. I think he's making a joke with Sherman's comments. I hope so anyways. That list was forgetting Blackmon as well, who, when not suspended, has been a dang good wr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I want you to see just how far behind we are at the WR position. There are well more than 5-6 elite receivers in the league. And many of these receivers had worse QB play than we did. Calvin Johnson Julio Jones Roddy White Vincent Jackson Larry Fitzgerald Brandon Marshal Alshon Jefferies Demarious Thomas Michael Crabtree Dez Bryant Andre Johnson Reggie Wayne DeSean Jackson Josh Gordon Jordy Nelson Steve Smith Marques Colston Keenan Allen AJ Green You could argue with maybe 2 of these receivers but I don't see Garçon being better than the rest of these WRs. So that means our best WR isn't even in the top 15 of the league's #1's. We need to really get him help because he's not good enough to carry the passing game! Right now, there's 19 WRs on your list, Garcon's at least as good as 9-10 of 'em. Keenan Allen's elite now? Really. lol And which one of those had worse QB play than we did? Cleveland and . . . . Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Congrats to Aldrich on the re-sign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Garcon didn't get in the probowl this year after leading the league in catches because he only caught 5 TD's all season. Hankerson has 3 less TD's in the past two seasons then Garcon, he has caught however 89 less passes then Garcon. Dude, this isn't fantasy football. Yes TDs are very important, but so is moving the chains, which is what Garçon does. Without him moving the chains, we don't score. Our very own Art Monk was that exact type of player. Very valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Dude, this isn't fantasy football. Yes TDs are very important, but so is moving the chains, which is what Garçon does. Without him moving the chains, we don't score. Our very own Art Monk was that exact type of player. Very valuable. To be fair, we're not doing a lot of scoring with him moving the chains. Almost a touchdown per game difference between the Skins and Cowboys/Eagles. In a league where most games are decided by less than a touchdown, that's way too much. I'm not blaming Garcon - it's a team wide fail in the red zone. However, the best receivers find a way to score. I think Garcon will eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasSkinsFan Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Dude, this isn't fantasy football. Yes TDs are very important, but so is moving the chains, which is what Garçon does. Without him moving the chains, we don't score. Our very own Art Monk was that exact type of player. Very valuable. Art Monk is one of my all time fan favorite Redskins to ever play this game, I am well aware of his past success and hall of fame career. When Garcon didn't even get invited to the Probowl I started a thread here on it and most seemed to not care about that. Garcon is a chain moving WR and an excellent player. Not since 1996 did a guy lead the league in catches and not go to the probowl. No other snub this year comes close to Garcon's snub. I respect players like Garcon and do not believe that TD's are the measuring stick for a players value, now with that out of the way its impossible for me to imagine how this is the Redskins reality where so many people ignore that Hankerson has been productive yet say he has not. He has averaged a TD catch every 10 passes he's caught. 68 receptions and 6 TD's compared to 157 catches and 9 scores. Those numbers are not too low and show a clear picture that he has been productive when Hankerson has been on the field unlike what some members say about him. On the other hand many people believe that Hankerson has too many drops right? Well that's not right either http://www.hogshaven.com/2013/5/16/4318026/redskins-offensive-improvements-leonard-hankerson The knock on Hankerson has been that he drops the ball far too often to be a consistent receiver. However, PFF attributed only 3 drops against Hankerson last year which is better than Garcon (5), Moss (6), and Morgan (7). That was from his 2012 season, he did even better this past season. I admit I am a fan of Leonard Hankerson and believe he doesn't get the respect that he should around here but that is my opinion. I am not saying we should look at him as the clear answer but his body of work has been impressive when he can stay on the field. It has nothing to do with Fantasy Football, this is about finding a true #2 WR which I believe Hankerson can be if he can stay healthy. I do not believe that Hankerson is injury prone either, he has had some bad luck. The good news is that Hankerson is only 25 years old. Hopefully he can continue to develop into the player I think he can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Art Monk is one of my all time fan favorite Redskins to ever play this game, I am well aware of his past success and hall of fame career. When Garcon didn't even get invited to the Probowl I started a thread here on it and most seemed to not care about that. Garcon is a chain moving WR and an excellent player. Not since 1996 did a guy lead the league in catches and not go to the probowl. No other snub this year comes close to Garcon's snub. I respect players like Garcon and do not believe that TD's are the measuring stick for a players value, now with that out of the way its impossible for me to imagine how this is the Redskins reality where so many people ignore that Hankerson has been productive yet say he has not. He has averaged a TD catch every 10 passes he's caught. 68 receptions and 6 TD's compared to 157 catches and 9 scores. Those numbers are not too low and show a clear picture that he has been productive when Hankerson has been on the field unlike what some members say about him. On the other hand many people believe that Hankerson has too many drops right? Well that's not right either I have to tell you I'm not a Hankerson hater. I think he's been a good player on the field when healthy. True, the injury bug has hit him, but like you said, at 25, I still have some hope for him that he'll continue to develop into a good player for us. He shows signs here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasSkinsFan Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I have to tell you I'm not a Hankerson hater. I think he's been a good player on the field when healthy. True, the injury bug has hit him, but like you said, at 25, I still have some hope for him that he'll continue to develop into a good player for us. He shows signs here and there. I am not a hater of any Redskin player we have, I am a fan of all of them and some guys I am rooting a little more for. Guys like Hankerson and Robinson appeal to me on a different level then Garcon because the last time the Redskins drafted a 1000 yard receiver was when the team selected Michael Westbrook back in 1995. I enjoy being a fan of "home grown" a little bit more then players we get from Free Agency. Nothing wrong with players in Free Agency, I just want that fact about drafted WR's to change and think that Hankerson gives us the best chance for that. Not knocking Robinson because he has shown flashes but I like Hankerson more. Plus with the Miami ties I'm naturally drawn to him more. I don't understand why people had such high expectations for Hankerson and think he has been a bad player for this team. Hankerson was drafted with the 79th pick in the third round of the 2011 draft and was expected to be a project WR. That project has seen more then its share of ups and downs but for the investment from the 2011-2013 drafts he has out performed most everyone of these players imo who were drafted after that pick Aaron Mellette Ace Sanders Alan Bonner Aldrick Robinson B.J. Cunningham Brice Butler Cecil Shorts Charles Johnson Chris Givens Chris Harper Cobi Hamilton Corey Fuller Danny Coale David Ausberry DeMarco Sampson Denarius Moore Devon Wylie Dwayne Harris Edmond Gates Greg Childs Greg Salas Jarius Wright Jeremy Ebert Jeremy Kerley Jerrel Jernigan Joe Adams Jordan White Josh Boyce Junior Hemingway Juron Criner Justin Brown Kealoha Pilares Kenny Stills Keshawn Martin Kevin Dorsey Kris Durham LaVon Brazill Leonard Hankerson Markus Wheaton Marquess Wilson Marvin Jones Marvin McNutt Mohamed Sanu Nick Toon Niles Paul Quinton Patton Rishard Matthews Ronald Johnson Ryan Whalen Scotty McKnight Stedman Bailey Stephen Burton T.Y. Hilton Tandon Doss Tavarres King Tommy Streeter Toney Clemons Travis Benjamin Vincent Brown Obv TY Hilton has done more then Hankerson, Cecil Shorts has done well, Kerley has had his moments, and Denarius Moore has shown some flashes as well but for the investment I think Hankerson has done fine. Its the unrealistic expectations that are hurting him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 ... Obv TY Hilton has done more then Hankerson, Cecil Shorts has done well, Kerley has had his moments, and Denarius Moore has shown some flashes as well but for the investment I think Hankerson has done fine. Its the unrealistic expectations that are hurting him I don't think it's the unrealistic expectations for Hankerson as a third round draft choice that haunt him, it's about the realistic expectations for a #2 WR. He averaged 37 yards/game as a third year player. Its just not enough. Plus, he's injured going into the final year of his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumplestilskin Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Looks like we are talking with Santana about a contract. Per Rotoworld. If anything he can still play the slot and has invaluable leadership. I knew the farewell to Santana thread was premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Cooley studying tape on both offense and defense thinks getting another weapon at WR is the teams top need. Personally, watching RG3's Baylor's games makes me drool for a WR who can take the top off of defenses. Arguably its Garcon's only weakness. Hank isn't good at it. Morgan isn't good at it either -- heck Cooley thinks Morgan often and Santana sometimes have become lazy and poor blockers in the run game. Robinson, maybe, but he doesn't scare defenses yet. We all see Robinson's inconsistency. Cooley's take on Robinson is that he has questionable hands and is very bad at fighting for the ball in traffic. As pointed out here by many its a deep draft for WR -- and FA isn't bad either if you are looking for a #2 or a decent slot option. It would be an odd year IMO to take a pass at adding a WR. Looks like we are talking with Santana about a contract. Per Rotoworld. If anything he can still play the slot and has invaluable leadership. I knew the farewell to Santana thread was premature. My issue with Santana is the dude has had a very good career, classy, etc. But it seems like he drops almost half the balls thrown at him. Maybe I am off with that impression, I haven't looked at the stats but it seemed like this season on critical plays and third down, the dude just didn't come through that often. Edelman on the other hand for the Patriots -- pure clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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