What do we really know about our WR's?

[pjfootballer]

I was ready before last year for Fletcher to retire. He stayed one year too long. I'm ready for Moss to move on. Love the guy, love everything he's given us, but I'm ready for us to move on. He's 34. He may still have some football in him, but it needs to be in a different uniform.

[rumplestilskin]

The thing with moss is that he will be inexpensive. Once we are done signing or tagging Rak, Riley and Hall we will be too cap poor to sign any more upper tier players. Edelman would be an upgrade on Moss and I am still hoping that he is on our radar.

[Laron Burgundy]

I don't think it's the unrealistic expectations for Hankerson as a third round draft choice that haunt him, it's about the realistic expectations for a #2 WR. He averaged 37 yards/game as a third year player. Its just not enough. Plus, he's injured going into the final year of his contract.

Oddly enough that's better than golden tate did and yet tate is fawned over around here. Hankerson hasn't been great but on a per route basis he averages more yards than garcon, he just doesn't get near the snaps. But his injury history sucks, and we could use another receiver for that alone. Good draft to get another pass catcher.

[TexasSkinsFan]

I don't think it's the unrealistic expectations for Hankerson as a third round draft choice that haunt him, it's about the realistic expectations for a #2 WR.  He averaged 37 yards/game as a third year player.  Its just not enough.  Plus, he's injured going into the final year of his contract. 

 

I posted every single WR that has been taken in the 2011, 2012, and 2013 drafts after the pick that Hankerson was taken as a comparison and Hankerson has out shined most every one of them. If people are being realistic about how this third round pick has turned out so far they would see that there is an extremely high failure rate for WR's taken that late. Very very few of them work out.

 

Hankerson in 30 games played

81 catches

125 targets

1,081 receiving yards

13.3 yard per catch average

6 TD's

If that said 16 games that would be a good season for a WR. In a 16 game season that would be 67.5 yards per game. He has done ok with the targets he has had thrown at him.

 

Compare that to Aldrick Robinson whom we just signed this week

 

31 games played

29 catches

65 targets

602 receiving yards

20.8 yard per catch average

5 TD's

That is less then 20 yards receiving per game but the catches to targets is much lower percentage then Hankerson.

The thing with moss is that he will be inexpensive. Once we are done signing or tagging Rak, Riley and Hall we will be too cap poor to sign any more upper tier players. Edelman would be an upgrade on Moss and I am still hoping that he is on our radar.

 

Problem with Moss is he has lost his step and his biggest contribution was being able to get yards after catch for years with his smaller frame. He can't do that anymore. He can still catch but the pop for a big play is gone. I am with pjfootballer, I think I am ready for that spot and targets to go elsewhere. I love him and appreciate him but it's time

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I was ready before last year for Fletcher to retire. He stayed one year too long. I'm ready for Moss to move on. Love the guy, love everything he's given us, but I'm ready for us to move on. He's 34. He may still have some football in him, but it needs to be in a different uniform.

 

Agreed...I was done with 59 a couple years ago and was ready to be done with 89 after 2012. It's time to turn the page and let some younger players fight for playing time/production. We need to figure out what we have long-term in guys like Robinson and Hankerson so we shouldn't block them with short-term players. 

 

In hindsight (foresight for some of us), last year would have been the ideal time to let Riley take over for Fletcher as the leader of the D. I feel the same way about Robinson starting in the slot for Moss now. We have him on a one-year deal and should give him a chance to sink or swim in the new offense. 

Hankfan...in fairness to Robinson, he's been targeted A LOT on lower-percentage, deep passes. I would expect Hankerson to have a higher catch rate considering he's used more often as a possession receiver. 

 

I'd also like to see Robinson be used all over the field this coming season (out of the slot even). 

[Rpredskins]

I want you to see just how far behind we are at the WR position. There are well more than 5-6 elite receivers in the league. And many of these receivers had worse QB play than we did.

Calvin Johnson

Julio Jones

Roddy White

Vincent Jackson

Larry Fitzgerald

Brandon Marshal

Alshon Jefferies

Demarious Thomas

Michael Crabtree

Dez Bryant

Andre Johnson

Reggie Wayne

DeSean Jackson

Josh Gordon

Jordy Nelson

Steve Smith

Marques Colston

Keenan Allen

AJ Green

You could argue with maybe 2 of these receivers but I don't see Garçon being better than the rest of these WRs. So that means our best WR isn't even in the top 15 of the league's #1's. We need to really get him help because he's not good enough to carry the passing game!

 

I don't know if that's fair. WR is extremely dependent on the offense and QB. The only guy on that list who I think is better than Garcon who had worse QB play was Fitzgerald. And Fitzgerlald is Fitzgerald. He's top 3 in the NFL and one of the best of all time.

If Garcon played for Green Bay I bet he'd be their #1. Once you show that you can play at a certain level, which Garcon has, you can't really objectively differentiate between top receivers. You can single out 2 or 3 that are ahead of the rest, but the rest of the pack depends on outside factors. We are set with Garcon. Only a couple guys would be a true upgrade over him, and those guys aren't coming here.

[KuNiT21]

I agree with others about Garcon, he is a stud.  I would love for us to take a look at E.Sanders and Riley Cooper (pending what Eagles do) in free agency.  If we miss on them, maybe sniff Decker to see what his asking price is?  

[Burgold]

Frankly, I want an example of what they mean by "Secret Science,"  I'm guessing that this is code word for any and all climate change studies which republicans love to call inconclusive.

 

Okay, that was weird.  I was in a completely different thread when I typed this.  Sorry guys.

 

I'm not sure our receivers are unknown enough to count as secret science.

[KokoMike]

I love these comments about the poor Redskins quarterback play in a thread about the WRs. As a season ticket holder for 35 years, I have seen a lot worse. RG3 had a great year in 2012. Last year, he was average for a lot of reasons. Our WRs, overall, are average, with or without him. To those of you who just think it is RG3, well I just question your motives. What are your motives?

[Skinsinparadise]

I posted every single WR that has been taken in the 2011, 2012, and 2013 drafts after the pick that Hankerson was taken as a comparison and Hankerson has out shined most every one of them. If people are being realistic about how this third round pick has turned out so far they would see that there is an extremely high failure rate for WR's taken that late. Very very few of them work out.

 

Hankerson in 30 games played

81 catches

125 targets

1,081 receiving yards

13.3 yard per catch average

6 TD's

 

 

 

Cooley who has played with Hankerson, thinks he's just another "guy" on the field, nothing special.  His opinion which he shared on the radio about him is that he isn't going to evolve into anything special or for that matter a viable #2 option.   It's part of the reason why he thinks WR is the teams top need.

 

Personally, am Ok with Hankerson you see flashes here and there, I was present at the Miami game 2 seasons ago which arguably was his best game ever, and he really was a stud that day.  He lives in a town about 10 minutes away from me.  And at least from what I read, he's a good clubhouse guy.  So I should like him.   But, what disappoints me is he seems to play soft, he's not a feisty type like Garcon who gets YAC.   And for a guy with some speed he doesn't present any deep threat.  He's evolved into a decent blocker and seems to get open at times but yeah for me it seems like something is missing.  

[SWFLSkins]

Some surprising facts here...... http://realredskins.com/2014/02/08/need-to-know-the-redskins-five-most-effective-offensive-players/

 

Here is what you need to know on this Saturday, February 8, 11 days before the NFL Combine.

Nickel coverage

The NFL keeps a stat called “net yards over average”. It works along the lines of the plus/minus numbers they keep in basketball and hockey. The NFL has figured out how many yards the average team will gain on, say, third and six at their own 20. If an offense gains seven yards on the play and the average is five, each offensive player on the field gets plus-two yards added to their net and every defender gets a minus-2.

Here are the Redskins’ top five on offense:

1. Jordan Reed 236.1
   
2. Leonard Hankerson 171.9
   
3. Darrel Young 167.6
   
4. Josh Morgan 57.2
   
5. Robert Griffin III 57.0
   

[skinny21]

When you look at Hankerson's targets in totality (back to back in the video posted somewhere on here), what you see is a decent, consistent receiver. He runs nice routes, gets some separation and gets upfield (and blocks well, though the video I'm talking about doesn't show this of course). You also never see him lay out for the ball, juke out of tackles, run away from guys - basically anything special.

Basically I think he's a solid receiver that is an asset to the team but he's not the kind of receiver that will draw attention away from your other guys due to a lack of 'game-breaking' play. I'm happy to have him and don't think he's a bust at all. On the flip side, he is what he is and I think that he's essentially reached his ceiling as a solid possession-type receiver (not that there's anything wrong with that).

[Warhead36]

We have one of the worst WR corps in the league. Garcon is a stud, but beyond that? Not much else.

 

Hankerson is at best a #3. Decent target, but nothing special. Robinson is a one trick pony, #4 WR but a dime a dozen(the league is chock full of fast guys who can't catch).

 

Morgan and Moss are nothing players. You could get street FAs who would be just as productive.

 

WR is probably the biggest talent deficit on this team.

[TheGoodBits]

We have one of the worst WR corps in the league. Garcon is a stud, but beyond that? Not much else.

Hankerson is at best a #3. Decent target, but nothing special. Robinson is a one trick pony, #4 WR but a dime a dozen(the league is chock full of fast guys who can't catch).

Morgan and Moss are nothing players. You could get street FAs who would be just as productive.

WR is probably the biggest talent deficit on this team.

Adding to this, our lack of talent outside Garçon severely limits him in situations where teams play him in tight press coverage with safety help. You saw that in the first Dallas game, notably. Even in the second Dallas game, they made a significant adjustment in the 2nd half to take him away.

Garcon was most productive when he had Reed on the field to draw some other attention. Nobody else was able to for the entire year.

Cooley agreed with this assessment btw. When asked what his #1 offseason priority was he stated it was without a doubt adding receiving talent. Czabe responded with some idiotic nonsense about it being a "luxury" we couldn't afford, but if you have receivers that cannot get open at all, that is in no way a luxury.

[Warhead36]

IF Reed can stay healthy, we just need to add one quality WR. A trio of Garcon, Reed, and say Edelman would be solid when coupled with our run game as well as Young out of the backfield and RG3's hopefully returned scrambling ability.

 

I'd go for Edelman in FA and then draft a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round that we can develop. Let Moss and Morgan walk. Roll with Garcon, Edelman, Hankerson, Robinson, and the rookie.

[TheGoodBits]

IF Reed can stay healthy, we just need to add one quality WR. A trio of Garcon, Reed, and say Edelman would be solid when coupled with our run game as well as Young out of the backfield and RG3's hopefully returned scrambling ability.

I'd go for Edelman in FA and then draft a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round that we can develop. Let Moss and Morgan walk. Roll with Garcon, Edelman, Hankerson, Robinson, and the rookie.

I don't like Edelman as anything other than a Moss replacement. We need an outside guy that gets good separation and can stretch the field vertically to take advantage of Griffin's arm. Too much working underneath last year.

[Commander Adama]

Aside from Garcon they suck pretty much sums it up for me...

 

Exactly (Though I still secretly love Moss just not as a top 3 Wide Receiver and should be moved to being a returner)

[Pinjarra Rouge]

I see Hankerson as a solid WR3 if he can stay healthy.

Would love to see Decker as our WR2 as he and Garcon would make a great combination.

[RemoveSnyder]

I mean how many guys do you know came back and were productive after hip subluxation, torn labrum and subsequent surgery, then an ACL & LCL tear, subsequent surgery?

 

 Especially to someone who wasn't the most sudden to begin with. I mean the repair to hip, as far as we know, went well. But have no idea on the phantom pains or limitations it created.

 

This league isn't long for anyone and to be perfectly clear if a guy isn't around, you got make plans as if he ain't ever going to be around.

 

Obviously he stays while under contract, which runs through next season, while at least rehabbing. But he's a 2015 free agent. Might as well make plans as if he ain't gonna be around.

 

If he comes back, that's to say rehabs and performs better than anyone else on roster, earns his spot, so be it, but you don't hold his spot indefinitely especially when the spot really wasn't secured to begin with.

[Burgold]

WR does seem a weakness after looking like a strength in 2012. I suspect improvement in the line and protection will vastly improve how our perception of the talent.

[Bonez3]

What do we know about our receiver...singular. He's a stud

 

Everyone else could be cut and replaced with cast offs already out there. Exception being Reed, but I unfortunately am skeptical (ansd I'm usually rose colored glasses guy).

 

Thuis, we need to add one in 2/3rd round and likely in FA.

 

I do love Santana for who he was and how he plays, but not really a role on a team right now.His ST play isn't even mid grade.

[skinny21]

If we don't target a WR in FA (not counting Moss and Robinson) and focuse mostly on D (with maybe an olineman thrown in), then I could see a WR or even TE taken at #34. Some have projected a run on wrs in the 1st and I think I'd rather one of the top TEs over the 6th-10th 'best' WR. Two very good TEs with Garçon and Robinson on the outside could help both our run game and our passing game, particularly off PA. With the D addressed in FA we also could go back to the well in the middle rounds for another pass catcher.

Moderate improvement on O with a heavy focus on D (FA and draft) would help this team quite a bit.

[MumboSauce]

In the words of Garçon it all sucks! lmao. seriously though, a lot of areas to improve..won't happen in just this off season, but I hope there are a few hits in draft and FA. hail!

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

Obv TY Hilton has done more then Hankerson, Cecil Shorts has done well, Kerley has had his moments, and Denarius Moore has shown some flashes as well but for the investment I think Hankerson has done fine. Its the unrealistic expectations that are hurting him

 

I'm a big Hank fan but I always like the debate and thinking how players project on our team, Other than those you elaborated on there were a few that weren't on the list(Undrafted and all) that I'd maybe take over Hank.

Marlon Brown went undrafted and was one of the few things that kept Flacco from looking mediocre instead of flat out terrible. Big target and 500+ yards 7tds as as a rookie isn't bad.

I'd take Hank over him but I could see a case being made for Kembrell Thompkins.

Keenan Allen and Terrence Williams were also drafted within a couple of picks of Hank so I think it's fair to at least mention them as proof you can find good value in that area.

 

As for the ones on your list...

 

 

Cecil Shorts- Though I wouldn't want him on our team because he's very much a Pierre clone, pretty sure he broke or equaled Pierre's records at Mt. Union and his career has started off similarly.

Chris Givens- Coinflip here, he's been slightly more productive in yardage but he's not the redzone threat that Hank is.

Kenny Stills- The big play potential is too hard to pass up with him 

Kris Durham- I'd probably take him. Hasn't converted his 6-6 size into TDs for Detroit yet, it helps that Megatron/Fauria both are 6-5+ and great in the red zone, but he's made some clutch plays(Dallas this year) and is a nice safety valve. Certainly wouldn't scare the defense down the field.

 

Marvin Jones- Similar size,fun to watch, made a huge leap year two with 10 TDs. Gruden would know how to use him already. Obviously not going anywhere.

Travis Benjamin- I'd take him simply for what he could do to our return game, dynamic player and I can't begin to imagine how a creative guy like Gruden would use him. Tore his knee early enough in the year that I imagine he's gonna be healthy for the regular season.

[NIKKI8]

I was going back through some older NFL draft books I have and I found Nolan Nawrocki's summary of Leonard Hankerson to be pretty much a perfect description. 

                                 " Good-sized, rangy, strong handed "X" receiver capable of using his size and length to post up outside the numbers

                                    or work inside effectively. Will have to become a more consistent catcher and prove he can seperate against man

                                    coverage. Might struggle to become anytthing more than a number 3 receiver" 

 

I don't think Hankerson has shown a lot of improvement since he came into the NFL. I know he has been hurt a lot also and it doesn't help that the Redskins haven't had a good WR coach since Terry Robiskie coached them when Norv Turner was head coach. I was hoping they would bring in Jimmy Robinson this year as WR coach because he has done some great work in the past with players like Dez Bryant, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Joe Horn, Amani Toomer and many others. He is looking for a job after taking a year off but we went back to Ike Hilliard.