RonArtest15

***2019-2020 NBA Season Thread***

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I'm not sure Havlicek should be on the list. He was probably the best player on those final Russell title teams and was clearly the best player in the 70s. I'm assuming you are thinking Russell as 1 and Sam Jones as 2.

 

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Even if Durant picks up his player option, wont it be almost a year until he can play?  Is this so late in season hes already missing next year?

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7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Even if Durant picks up his player option, wont it be almost a year until he can play?  Is this so late in season hes already missing next year?

 

Depends on if the Warriors get down 3-1 in next years playoffs...

 

*ducks*

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22 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Depends on if the Warriors get down 3-1 in next years playoffs...

 

*ducks*

 

Why you duckin?  I laughed.

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1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I'm not sure Havlicek should be on the list. He was probably the best player on those final Russell title teams and was clearly the best player in the 70s. I'm assuming you are thinking Russell as 1 and Sam Jones as 2.

 

 

I would go Sam Jones #2 until he got old, then probably Bailey Howell at the end of the Russell era.  Hondo was still the young guy amongst that group.  Hondo was their leader throughout most of the 70's, but I'd say Dave Cowens had taken over as the best player and leader by that '76 title team.  During the title-winning years of his career in the Russell era, I'd say he was the #3 in most configurations of the team.

 

It'd be cool if Klay played long enough and at a high enough level that he takes over the leadership of his own title-winning team like Hondo did.  That'd give him one of the great career arcs in league history.

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@BenningRoadSkin for some reason I can't quote your post, but this response is to the claim that I've underrated Worthy and Bosh:

 

Bosh, yeah probably I did underrate him slightly, but I think Worthy's placement is fair.  These are their resumes:

 

Bosh: 11 All Stars, 2 rings, 1 All NBA, 27.5 VORP, 106 win shares in 893 games.

 

Worthy: 7 All Stars, 3 rings, 2 All NBAs, 1 Finals MVP, 28.5 VORP, 81 win shares in 926 games.

 

Hondo: 13 All Stars, 8 rings, 11 All NBAs, 1 Finals MVP, 8 All Defense, 132 win shares in 1270 games.

 

Manu: 2 All Stars, 4 rings, 2 All NBAs, 1 6MOY, 47.1 VORP, 106 win shares in 1056 games.

 

Parish: 9 All Stars, 4 rings, 2 All NBAs, 41.5 VORP, 147 win shares over 1611 games.

 

Dandridge: 4 All Stars, 2 rings, 1 All NBA, 1 All Defense, 80 win shares in 839 games.

 

VORP can't be calculated for the full careers of Hondo and Dandridge, but if you look at the rest of the resumes,

 

- Hondo should clearly be #1.  He has more rings and All NBA teams (including defense) and All Star selections than everyone, plus he has a Finals MVP too.

- Parish should probably be #2.  He's tied with Manu for the second most rings, has the second most VORP, and he has the most win shares of the group.

- Manu should be #3 IMO.  Even though he doesn't have the All NBA and All Star selections that others do, he's tied for the second most rings, he's tied for the third most win shares, and he has the most VORP.

- I could support putting Bosh ahead of Dandridge.  Bosh has the second most All Stars, is tied for the third most win shares, and he has the second best WS/48 rate of the group, behind Manu.  But I initially favored Dandridge over him because I give him credit for being a great #3 on two different championship teams, and TBH, he wasn't that far away from being the best player on that Bullets team, whereas LeBron was way better than Bosh and Bosh never had a lot of team success outside of the context of those LeBron-led Heat teams.

 

I put Worthy lower than them because his win shares and win share rate were lower, he doesn't have as many rings as Parish and Manu, and he doesn't have as many All Stars as Bosh.  It's close between him, Bosh, and Dandridge, but I think the other two were better than him.

 

I think Rodman definitely deserves to be on the list.  He won 5 rings as a key guy on each team.  His individual achievements are awesome too, he was 2 x All NBA, 8 x All Defense, and won 2 DPOYs.  Plus he had 90 win shares in 911 games, which would give him the fifth best rate on the list I believe.  He's one of the best defensive players in the history of the league, and defensive brilliance should count as much as offensive brilliance on a list like this.

 

Klay has had a great career so far, and he's made a lot of All Star games and already won three rings.  But he's got many seasons to go before he overtakes the guys on the list.  He still has just 615 games played.  And he's only accrued 46.8 win shares.  If he continues to play at a high level for a long time, he will end up somewhere high on the list.  But he's not there yet.

 

He might also end up as the clear #2 of this Warriors dynasty when it's all said and done.  If Durant leaves, we might end up thinking of the three year period where he was with the Warriors as a blip, and that the norm was for Klay to be the #2.

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4 hours ago, Destino said:

I’m watching espn discuss how the warriors shouldn’t have played him and risked his achilles.  I’m still wondering when we established a link between calf injuries and achilles tears.  If this was ever a known risk no sports league would treat calf strains as lightly as they currently do.  

 

The question I have, is was his initial injury misdiagnosed by the team doctors?  If so, things could get ugly.  

 

I heard someone, pretty sure on ESPN, earlier this week say that the team was afraid that it was an achilles injury.  I wasn't paying too close attention as it was on on the background but my ears perked up when I heard that.  A guy I used to work with tore his achilles a couple years ago playing flag football, for awhile he had one of those little scooter things where you kneel on it with the bad leg and push yourself around with the strong one.  He'd let us roll down a little hill outside the office with it at work sometimes :ols:  But in witnessing how much pain he was in and how long that road to recovery was...it's not good.

 

Anyway, I am not sure if what was admitted to the media was accurate.  I am thinking either something was mis-reported and the media took it and ran...and GSW didn't bother to correct them because...well, why should they?  Or, more likely, it's a case of subterfuge, GSW saying one thing when it was another all along.  Who knows.

 

I can't imagine a team with as many resources as GSW misdiagnosing something like that.  To borrow a recent quote from Jay Gruden "I mean, they have plenty of degrees." :rofl89:

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How do y’all feel about Rachel Nichols talking about how Steph started crying after seeing the video of KD’s injury. Damn women. Keep that **** private. 

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1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

@BenningRoadSkin for some reason I can't quote your post, but this response is to the claim that I've underrated Worthy and Bosh:

 

Bosh, yeah probably I did underrate him slightly, but I think Worthy's placement is fair.  These are their resumes:

 

Bosh: 11 All Stars, 2 rings, 1 All NBA, 27.5 VORP, 106 win shares in 893 games.

 

Worthy: 7 All Stars, 3 rings, 2 All NBAs, 1 Finals MVP, 28.5 VORP, 81 win shares in 926 games.

 

Hondo: 13 All Stars, 8 rings, 11 All NBAs, 1 Finals MVP, 8 All Defense, 132 win shares in 1270 games.

 

Manu: 2 All Stars, 4 rings, 2 All NBAs, 1 6MOY, 47.1 VORP, 106 win shares in 1056 games.

 

Parish: 9 All Stars, 4 rings, 2 All NBAs, 41.5 VORP, 147 win shares over 1611 games.

 

Dandridge: 4 All Stars, 2 rings, 1 All NBA, 1 All Defense, 80 win shares in 839 games.

 

VORP can't be calculated for the full careers of Hondo and Dandridge, but if you look at the rest of the resumes,

 

- Hondo should clearly be #1.  He has more rings and All NBA teams (including defense) and All Star selections than everyone, plus he has a Finals MVP too.

- Parish should probably be #2.  He's tied with Manu for the second most rings, has the second most VORP, and he has the most win shares of the group.

- Manu should be #3 IMO.  Even though he doesn't have the All NBA and All Star selections that others do, he's tied for the second most rings, he's tied for the third most win shares, and he has the most VORP.

- I could support putting Bosh ahead of Dandridge.  Bosh has the second most All Stars, is tied for the third most win shares, and he has the second best WS/48 rate of the group, behind Manu.  But I initially favored Dandridge over him because I give him credit for being a great #3 on two different championship teams, and TBH, he wasn't that far away from being the best player on that Bullets team, whereas LeBron was way better than Bosh and Bosh never had a lot of team success outside of the context of those LeBron-led Heat teams.

 

I put Worthy lower than them because his win shares and win share rate were lower, he doesn't have as many rings as Parish and Manu, and he doesn't have as many All Stars as Bosh.  It's close between him, Bosh, and Dandridge, but I think the other two were better than him.

 

I think Rodman definitely deserves to be on the list.  He won 5 rings as a key guy on each team.  His individual achievements are awesome too, he was 2 x All NBA, 8 x All Defense, and won 2 DPOYs.  Plus he had 90 win shares in 911 games, which would give him the fifth best rate on the list I believe.  He's one of the best defensive players in the history of the league, and defensive brilliance should count as much as offensive brilliance on a list like this.

 

Klay has had a great career so far, and he's made a lot of All Star games and already won three rings.  But he's got many seasons to go before he overtakes the guys on the list.  He still has just 615 games played.  And he's only accrued 46.8 win shares.  If he continues to play at a high level for a long time, he will end up somewhere high on the list.  But he's not there yet.

 

He might also end up as the clear #2 of this Warriors dynasty when it's all said and done.  If Durant leaves, we might end up thinking of the three year period where he was with the Warriors as a blip, and that the norm was for Klay to be the #2.

Manu has not had a better career than Klay Thompson and is not a better player than Klay Thompson.

 

Rodman was a role player. The guys on that list won big time games. Rodman served a role for guys that won big time games. He was basically Draymond Green, except lower than that.

 

 

And again, James Worthy was a Finals MVP and had one of the greatest game 7s of all time. And I am not going to give Parrish "3rd man" props for playing 10 minutes a game on a Bulls title run.

 

You could put Klay in the top five and remove some of those names.

 

5 hours ago, Destino said:

I’m watching espn discuss how the warriors shouldn’t have played him and risked his achilles

This after ESPN waged a campaign to egging KD to play in these games. Sports media is a sickness.

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I'd suggest that people rewatch Klay's 37 point...quarter...it's still magical. Or read up that in another game in which he made 14 3-pointers, he took 5 dribbles total on those 14 shots.

 

Catch and shoot. It's what he does. 

 

Oh and he's probably a top 3 defender too at his position.

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

I always find a way to blame people who refer to themselves in the third person.

 

combined with the fact that you really can't trust anyone when their last name is a common first name

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Well Kawhi might end up being a one year rental and he's on the verge of winning a ring.

 

Its worth the risk.

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Rich Paul is desperate to get AD to the boy LeBron cause no one else wants to go to the lakers 

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Davis's dad said he doesn't want to go to Boston because of the way they treated Isaiah Thomas.

 

If true, I like it.  The mover and shaker players like Davis need to punish teams for acting in bad faith.  It's a toxic way of running a team.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

How do y’all feel about Rachel Nichols talking about how Steph started crying after seeing the video of KD’s injury. Damn women. Keep that **** private. 

 

I'm hoping she asked if it was okay to talk about that, but i doubt it.  This I'd a problem with 24/7 sports coverage, either reporting stuff that shouldnt be reported or using speculation to have something to talk about like its news when it's not.  I dont believe for two seconds KD ever wanted to go to a dysfunctional organization like the Knicks, I dont.

 

Another thing I dont like is how they will turn on you faster then your head can spin.  The Zion coverage is nauseating, if he busts, they will destroy him and move on to the next prospect. 

Edited by Renegade7
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Davis's dad said he doesn't want to go to Boston because of the way they treated Isaiah Thomas.

 

If true, I like it.  The mover and shaker players like Davis need to punish teams for acting in bad faith.  It's a toxic way of running a team.

 

How exactly did they treat IT? 

 

And how does this not look even more perplexing by him going to by far the worst run team in the league right now?

Edited by Mr. Sinister

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1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

How exactly did they treat IT? 

 

And how does this not look even more perplexing by him going to by far the worst run team in the league right now?

 

They dumped him after he played through a serious injury and the death of his sister for them.

 

It's not so much about not going to a team that's made a bunch of mistakes as not going to a team that treated it's best player like a disposable commodity.  The players talk about losing trust in their teams, and stuff like what Boston did is what they are talking about.

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Were they supposed to keep him and pay him (after the nature of the injury was disclosed)? Would you, if your responsibility was to field the best team possible?

 

I mean, unless there was a heartless comment in there from Ainge and co, or they somehow mishandled his injury, im not seeing where the grievance is. He was a 3 ft tall offense or nothing player about to rake them over the coals contract wise, and that wouldve been fair.

 

Him being hurt, and them wanting to move on is also fair. The stuff with his sister seems like bad timing, but nothing more than something for the media to hammer them over.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

I wonder what each team is going for, like what’s on the table?  

 

Why was LA basically told no way in hell and now back at the table?  

Edited by Dont Taze Me Bro

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