NFL.com: Advantage Campbell? Weeden reportedly outplayed at OTAs

[Gamebreaker]

If Weeden can't outplay Campbell, they should just get rid of him. He's already old, performed the worst out of all the rookie QBs last season, and now can't outperform a clear underachieving, mentally weak dude like JC? Pathetic.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Someday I'll find out just what the Browns have done to piss God off so much that he continues to make them suffer so.

Hail.

[LittleTinyUnbornBaby]

My left ball sack could outplay Brandon Weeden.

How many ball sacks do you have????

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

How many ball sacks do you have????

I didn't like to ask.

Hail.

[Riggo-toni]

My left ball sack could outplay Brandon Weeden.

Only because it never gets touched...assuming you are right-handed.

But yeah, Weeden sucks. Reminds me of when the Panthers drafted/ started Chris Weinke, but Weinle at least put up good numbers. Hard to believe Weeden went before Wilson or Cousins.

[#BgMase76#]

This might be the perfect situation for JC. As horrible as he is as a HC, Norv Turner is probably one of the best OC's in my lifetime. He's also great at getting the best from his quarterbacks.

Who knew, Norv Turner could be JC's saving grace. If he has anything left in the tank he should be able to take the starting gig.

[Voice_of_Reason]

JC is who he is. He never materialized as a legitimate starter while he was here. I'm glad he's gone, I'm super glad that we have Robert, but I wish him nothing but the best in Cleveland.

However, and I know I'll get kicked in the teeth for this, but honestly, he takes some flack here for things that were a little out of his control. He had to play QB for probably the most ridiculous coach in the NFL with Zorn. Who was not only the HC, but the OC and QB Coach.

WAAAAAAYYYY back when, I did a play-by-play breakdown of one of the Dallas games. Darrellgreenie and I went back and forth about it quite a bit, but it was a heck of a thread. I just have no memory of what the title was.

But the end result is that, in that game, of the ~30 called pass plays, there were 5 sacks, and 9 screens. (The 9 screens I think is an accurate number). Which means that almost 50% of the PASS PLAYS, the ball never crossed the LOS because of a leaky OL or because 1/3 of the called plays were screens.

I don't know why there is such vitriol and hatred towards JC. He was a mediocre QB, he tried hard, said the right things, and had horrendous coaching, and then Shanahan threw him out the door. He did his best, which wasn't very good, but, I just don't understand why there are so many people who hate him SO MUCH.

In hindsight, Shanahan would have been better off keeping JC and trying to get what he could out of him than trading for McNabb. However, I think that there was so much angst with JC, the organization as a whole knew they just had to move on. And I don't blame them.

[pjfootballer]

Someday I'll find out just what the Browns have done to piss God off so much that he continues to make them suffer so.

Hail.

Can you find out what I did to piss God off so much to make me suffer while you're at it?

[darrelgreenie]

WAAAAAAYYYY back when, I did a play-by-play breakdown of one of the Dallas games. Darrellgreenie and I went back and forth about it quite a bit, but it was a heck of a thread. I just have no memory of what the title was.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?288596-SKINS-V-S-COWBOYS-730p-on-NFL-NETWORK/page2

^^Great thread, rare occasion where a game was discussed/broken down without preconceptions. Just pure objective analysis.

Only disagree with one thing:

then Shanahan threw him out the door

Shanahan never made any moves to get rid of Jason. Despite (not you specifically) what many people remember; Jason Campbell was not cut/released/ or let go/gotten rid of by Mike Shanahan. On the contrary Mike Shanahan actually tendered Jason Campbell and planned to keep him on the team even after McNabb was brought in. It was Jason that asked to pursue a trade and Mike did him a solid and allowed Jason and his agent to seek a trade.

In hindsight, Shanahan would have been better off keeping JC and trying to get what he could out of him than trading for McNabb. However, I think that there was so much angst with JC, the organization as a whole knew they just had to move on. And I don't blame them.

I'm one of the few that agrees, in hindsight of course. I wonder how Jason would have played with the talent and coaching upgrade that the Mike Shanahan regime brought as opposed to the Zorn/Lewis debacle.

[pjfootballer]

I don't know why there is such vitriol and hatred towards JC. He was a mediocre QB, he tried hard, said the right things, and had horrendous coaching, and then Shanahan threw him out the door. He did his best, which wasn't very good, but, I just don't understand why there are so many people who hate him SO MUCH.

I'm not sure that the crowd that is anti JC hates the guy. I think they've mostly agree that he's an average QB that gave it his all despite his shortcomings and the team around him. I find that when this argument rears it's ugly head once a year, the JC supporters carry most of the viotrol. They want to place blame on everything but JC.

I had high hopes for him myself. I was a little pissed that he didn't progress as much as I wanted him to. He is what he is and he'll never be elite. I just put him in the same pile of QBs from 1992-2011. No difference to me.

[Voice_of_Reason]

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?288596-SKINS-V-S-COWBOYS-730p-on-NFL-NETWORK/page2

^^Great thread, rare occasion where a game was discussed/broken down without preconceptions. Just pure objective analysis.

Only disagree with one thing:

Shanahan never made any moves to get rid of Jason. Despite (not you specifically) what many people remember; Jason Campbell was not cut/released/ or let go/gotten rid of by Mike Shanahan. On the contrary Mike Shanahan actually tendered Jason Campbell and planned to keep him on the team even after McNabb was brought in. It was Jason that asked to pursue a trade and Mike did him a solid and allowed Jason and his agent to seek a trade.

I'm one of the few that agrees, in hindsight of course. I wonder how Jason would have played with the talent and coaching upgrade that the Mike Shanahan regime brought as opposed to the Zorn/Lewis debacle.

I just re-read some of that thread. Almost brought a tear to my eye. Both because reading about the complete ineptitude of Zorn, playcalling, and the OL, as well as that it's a mighty-fine thread with detailed analysis, play by play, from a lot of guys.

As far as JC being kicked out the door by Shanahan, To the letter of the law, you're absolutely correct. But I sortof got the feeling that JC was done with DC, and DC was done with JC. And I really don't think in the end Shanahan was going to keep JC to be a backup. Too much money, too much drama. I think at some point, regardless of what JC wanted, he was going to get released or traded. It worked out the best way it probably could have for JC, being traded to Oakland. I think JC knew his days were numbered, and so the best move for him was to force the issue, so he didn't get moved during training camp or released right before the season. That's all conjecture on my part.

I'm not sure that the crowd that is anti JC hates the guy. I think they've mostly agree that he's an average QB that gave it his all despite his shortcomings and the team around him. I find that when this argument rears it's ugly head once a year, the JC supporters carry most of the viotrol. They want to place blame on everything but JC.

I had high hopes for him myself. I was a little pissed that he didn't progress as much as I wanted him to. He is what he is and he'll never be elite. I just put him in the same pile of QBs from 1992-2011. No difference to me.

Yeah, I guess that could be true. I sortof think that a lot of disdain for him started with the whole stupid Colt Brennan thing. There were a lot of of folks out trying to rip down JC in order to prop up Colt. And I think that some of those feelings persist.

I have a complete "eh, whatever" mentality to JC. I really thought he could be good, and he showed a flash here and there. But it wasn't meant to be.

I also believe that he HAD to go after the Zorn was fired. Honestly, the team needed a new start from top to bottom. It's just damn unfortunate that McNabb turned out to be a complete and total bust. But he had to go. Move on with his life.

[SpacePenguin]

I I just put him in the same pile of QBs from 1992-2011. No difference to me.

Hey now! For the one season that Mark Brunell was healthy, he could play!

Brad Johnson wasn't bad either.

[Leonard Washington]

Hey now! For the one season that Mark Brunell was healthy, he could play!

1996?

[Mr. Sinister]

Ahhh, Brunell, the Cretacean Sensation. He was good for about 12-13 games before his arm died and he hurt his knee.

[Jumbo]

Brunell spent most of his career as a top tier NFL QB. After 15 years, his career passer rating puts him tied at 27th with Jay Cutler out of 172 QBs meeting the criteria for a rating. Interestingly, Jason Campbell and Brad Johnson are tied exactly ten spots below him.

This is another example of the challenge of an assessment tool accurately measuring what it intends to measure and on how stats can work for you in an argument and against you in the same argument since I think Campbell sucks more than he doesn't, and I can't see him as being #37 all time on any list ranking QB performance. :pfft:

[SpacePenguin]

Sorry, I meant one good season in DC (05). He was great in Jacksonville, of course.

Interesting stats though, I wouldn't have thought his career stats were up to that high a level....and I wouldn't have thought JC's were anywhere near that respectable either.

Tied with Brad Johnson? That's a whole lot of garbage time stat padding for Campbell there! ;p

[Riggo-toni]

Shanahan never made any moves to get rid of Jason. Despite (not you specifically) what many people remember; Jason Campbell was not cut/released/ or let go/gotten rid of by Mike Shanahan. On the contrary Mike Shanahan actually tendered Jason Campbell and planned to keep him on the team even after McNabb was brought in. It was Jason that asked to pursue a trade and Mike did him a solid and allowed Jason and his agent to seek a trade.

I'm one of the few that agrees, in hindsight of course. I wonder how Jason would have played with the talent and coaching upgrade that the Mike Shanahan regime brought as opposed to the Zorn/Lewis debacle.

Campbell wanted out because he was delusional enough to think he was starting material, like when Heath Shuler turned down an offer to sit on the bench and learn from Holmgren he insisted on instead going to NO and losing for Ditka. Shanny wanted JC only for what he has ever been good enough for - a backup position.

The ONLY situation where JC could've ever been successful would've been if he'd played for Rex Ryan the first couple years w/ the Jets and just had to hand off to LT and Shonn Greene. He does not have the velocity or the release (not to mention the accuracy) to thread the needle - nothing Shanahan could've ever done to fix that. I bet Jets fans will be having these same conversations 3 years from now when Sanchez still sucks...

[Darth Tater]

I'm not sure that the crowd that is anti JC hates the guy. I think they've mostly agree that he's an average QB that gave it his all despite his shortcomings and the team around him. I find that when this argument rears it's ugly head once a year, the JC supporters carry most of the viotrol. They want to place blame on everything but JC.

I had high hopes for him myself. I was a little pissed that he didn't progress as much as I wanted him to. He is what he is and he'll never be elite. I just put him in the same pile of QBs from 1992-2011. No difference to me.

Exact opposite of the vibe I get. The haters, like yourself, are quite unreasonable and are full of vitriol while most of those you identify as JC supporters are just realist. The only ones who seem to realize what JC was.

[darrelgreenie]

Campbell wanted out because he was delusional enough to think he was starting material

Do you understand the word delusional? How can Campbell be delusional when he went on to be starting QB, a winning QB, for the Raiders?

[Riggo-toni]

Do you understand the word delusional? How can Campbell be delusional when he went on to be starting QB, a winning QB, for the Raiders?

Yeah, he did an incredible job of handing the ball off to McFadden. There's a difference between being a starter and being starting material. Sanchez was the starting QB for a team that went to bacb to back AFC title games, but he's not starting material. Like JC, he sucks and will eventually wind up as a backup. Oakland had a ferocious D and a great running game. Obviously he was no worldbeater because they had no qualms about letting him walk, nor was anyone willing to offer him a starting job elsewhere afterwards. Only Al Davis was that crazy, and he's the same guy who passed on drafting Rivers or Roethlisberger to draft Robert Gallery because he was convince Aaron Brooks was the future.

[darrelgreenie]

Yeah, he did an incredible job of handing the ball off to McFadden. There's a difference between being a starter and being starting material. Sanchez was the starting QB for a team that went to bacb to back AFC title games, but he's not starting material. Like JC, he sucks and will eventually wind up as a backup. Oakland had a ferocious D and a great running game..

Your points have so many holes in them.

You make a statement that is inaccurate and when challenged you back pedal and dance over semmantics.

Oh, btw its hilarious to hear you describe Oakland, lol you talk like they were the great juggernaut of the AFC West, lol too funny.

Obviously he was no worldbeater because they had no qualms about

letting him walk, nor was anyone willing to offer him a starting job elsewhere

afterwards

Hmm, who said anything about Campbell being a world beater? No one.

But contrary to your previous statement Campbell was a starting QB and a good starting QB for the Raiders. The, lol, powerhouse Raiders team that you describe only recent success came with Campbell at QB.

[pjfootballer]

Hey now! For the one season that Mark Brunell was healthy, he could play!

Brad Johnson wasn't bad either.

I agree that some QBs showed flashes. Brad had a great year, Trent had one good year for us and Brunell did also. JC had his moments also. But we haven't had any consistency from the position in almost 20 years. Hopefully Griffin will break that.

---------- Post added May-21st-2013 at 01:21 PM ----------

Exact opposite of the vibe I get. The haters, like yourself, are quite unreasonable and are full of vitriol while most of those you identify as JC supporters are just realist. The only ones who seem to realize what JC was.

Please find a quote where I have EVER said I hated the guy. Now you are just being ridiculous. I've always said he was an average QB. He shows flashes every now and then, but you can never expect him to elevate his game and lead the team to a championship. Where is the hate in that statement? Was I disappointed he didn't become a franchise QB? Sure. I was also disappointed in Shuler, Frerrotte, Freiz, Ramsey, Banks, etc., etc.

[Riggo-toni]

Where exactly am I backpedaling? I stated in my original post that the only situation where JC could've had any real measure of success was the 1st two years under Ryan doing what Sanchez did, handing off the ball. That's pretty much all he did in Oakland. McFadden was an elite RB that year prior to his injury, and I believe the D was top 5, or at least top 10. Never said the team as a whole were world beaters. He won some games early on before getting hurt...so what? He won several games against division rivals under Zorn before teams realized they just needed to send in an extra blitzer, bump Moss and double cover Cooley, and Campbell would dump off. Look how that played out. Nothing Campbell has ever done suggests he's genuine starter material. The original Jason Campbell, Tony Banks, managed to go 8-3 as a starter here, but noone really believes he's starter material.

Frerotte went to the Pro Bowl as a Redskin, outperformed Culpepper in relief in Minny, and got the Vikes into the playoffs before getting injured the last game of the season, yet likely noone here would defend him with any of the vigour that a handful feel is somehow necessary vis a vis Campbell, who has done nothing in his career. I just don't get it.

[Sinister]

They just signed Hoyer, who their new GM loves.

Campbell has always looked in practice.

It's games when he becomes the checkdown king.

Is what he is at this point.

Also, the video linked to the article is all about Weeden playing well.

Exactly, JC is a company man. He'll do everything right, look spectacular in practice, however when the game is being played he comes out of the tunnel as captain checkdown. However he did air it out way more in Oakland than he ever did in DC. All he ever did was over throw receivers here.

[ArmchairRedskin]

I'm just glad that our QB situation isn't one where there would be the possibility of Jason Campbell coming in and winning the starting job.

Sucks for you, Browns.