NFL.com: Advantage Campbell? Weeden reportedly outplayed at OTAs

[Taylor 36]

maybe because the receiver is actually playing against someone who wants to stop them from catching the ball

Maybe, just maybe translating from practice to the game is effected by the quality of the team?

It quite a lot of roster purging to get from that team to our current team.

You know having Levi Jones and Stephon Heyer as booked OTs, having Quinton Ganther as the RB and having Santana Moss as the only viable receiving option being coached by Jim Zorn and Sherman Lewis makes it a little difficult to QB some hi-flying offense and rack up a bunch on wins.

Yea, it's time for the "it's everyone else's fault but Campell's" excuses. The track record shows that he is not a good QB. Fact is, if you compare stats, Tebow is on the same level as JC with far less games under his belt. Hell, Tebow has more fourth quarter/overtime comebacks in less than a year and a half of starts than JC in over seven, even with JC's garbage time stat padding. Tebow has the entire football world on his case, but the same crowd wants to keep making excuses for Campbell? Please let it stop.

And, this is not a post trying to endorse Tebow; it's just an indictment on Campbell.

[big#44]

I love how you compared the track records of tebow vs campbell. Track records aren't always so easily compared, especially since Jason's track was uphill in the sand, and Tebow had the wind blowing from behind him.

[Taylor 36]

I love how you compared the track records of tebow vs campbell. Track records aren't always so easily compared, especially since Jason's track was uphill in the sand, and Tebow had the wind blowing from behind him.

Your right. JC was working uphill in the sand when he had a hall of fame coach guiding him with an offense that had been proven so good that a journeyman QB who should not and never was a starter in this league could come in and lead the team for four and a half games, (using the exact same offensive line, wr's, rb's, and defense that JC looked like a junior high QB with) and take them to the playoffs looking like an all-pro in the process. Let's still pretend that JC was the victim here and not the other 52 guys on the roster and the coaches whom he held back all the years he was here. Just like how people want to say that his performance in Chicago last year was due to how bad the Bears were, the same team that Jay Cutler was able to get 10 wins with and should have been a playoff team if not for Cutler's injuries and a horrible call in the Green Bay-Seattle game. Again, it's not Campbell's fault, it is everyone else's, right? :doh:

[RichmondRedskin88]

Wait Cleveland fans insisted he was better than RGIII and Cousins. We know they are never wrong. I call BS.

[Bang]

Trent Richardson has to hold up.

Norv will create a running game if he can. He will give it to Richardson 350 times if not more.

In Oakland, before his broken collarbone, JC had the run game going and was winning football games. For a short time there, an offense actually was doing the things that JC was drafted to do... he didn't have anyone spectacular at receiver,, he was using Chaz Schillens and his tight end.

he wsn't lighting up the world, but he was not making the killer mistakes he makes when the offense relies on him.

then he got hurt and Oakland **** the bed...

but if Richardson can prove durable and give him that run attack, he's not a bad QB for Norv.

~Bang

[The Full Monty]

JC can be a decent, at best, veteran holdover there to help stabilize things, I think Cleveland will have to wait till next year to draft a franchise QB. I still question the wisdom of signing a guy with a mediocre record and still questionable mechanics (slow release) and hesitance with making aggressive throws.

[War Paint]

Maybe Norv can make JC a late bloomer, to where he's a good game manager, kind of like how Alex Smith turned out. He did play a little bit better in Oakland than he did here. Chances are the Browns future QB is in next year's draft.

[KCClybun]

JC can be a decent, at best, veteran holdover there to help stabilize things, I think Cleveland will have to wait till next year to draft a franchise QB. I still question the wisdom of signing a guy with a mediocre record and still questionable mechanics (slow release) and hesitance with making aggressive throws.

I do think Campbell has improved a lot since he was here. I mean he's not a world beater, he's not a franchise guy. But as someone stable and a potential mentor for a young quarterback next year, you can do a LOT worst. They've got some talent there, an o-line that'll give him forever to throw, and one of the best offensive minded coaches in the league. If he does beat out Weeden, he can help that franchise.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I wonder who is out of the league first, Brandon Weeden or Blaine Gabbert

Weeden's much closer to retirement age, so...:cool:

[big#44]

Your right. JC was working uphill in the sand when he had a hall of fame coach guiding him with an offense that had been proven so good that a journeyman QB who should not and never was a starter in this league could come in and lead the team for four and a half games, (using the exact same offensive line, wr's, rb's, and defense that JC looked like a junior high QB with) and take them to the playoffs looking like an all-pro in the process. Let's still pretend that JC was the victim here and not the other 52 guys on the roster and the coaches whom he held back all the years he was here. Just like how people want to say that his performance in Chicago last year was due to how bad the Bears were, the same team that Jay Cutler was able to get 10 wins with and should have been a playoff team if not for Cutler's injuries and a horrible call in the Green Bay-Seattle game. Again, it's not Campbell's fault, it is everyone else's, right? :doh:

Oh wow. No one ever said Jason didn't hold any fault. But you act like he was the one holding a team of all pros back from seeing success. I like how you used one example to define his whole career. Let's look at that 2007 season first. The leading receiver was a TE. The leading RB averaged 3.9 yards/carry. The whole offense was stale. It was more than just Collins that got them into the playoffs, it was the entire team suddenly clicking. And I can't help but laugh at you calling Collins 5TD, 7 sacks in a 4 game stretch an All Pro performance. Seriously dude? And what teams did they play during Collins stretch? A Giants team that was 4-4 in their last 8 games (They won the superbowl yes, but anyone who remembers will tell you that they did not get hot till the playoffs. An 8-8 inconsistent Vikings team, a 7-9 Bears team, and a 13-3 Cowboys team. Cowboys aside, none of those teams were huge favorites over the skins, and we all know the boys propensity to choking in the last game of the season.

Redskins fans need to quit acting like JC was holding the team back from a superbowl. How many players from that 2007 team were still around a few years later? Not many. Could JC have played better? Absolutely. But lets quit acting like he had the 2012 49ers around him. Those Gibbs 2.0 teams were ragtag and managed to get hot at the right time. JC is who he is. He is a game manager who could keep you in games but couldn't always take over and win it on his own. He's in the mold of Alex Smith, with a good cast around him he can play within the system and perform.

[KCClybun]

Campbell was another victim of fan's insane expectations.

Was he great? No. I don't think anyone would lie and say Campbell could've been elite. Was he solid? Sure.

But to hear people talk about Campbell it's like he was the worst quarterback in the league. They talk about him like he was a Jamarcus Russell level bust. He is what he is; a solid, dependable quarterback who had an aging cast around him that was teetering on the ragged edge of collapse.

Once Gibbs left, the inmates took over the asylum, they hired a empty suit to be head coach, and they failed to surround him with the proper cast to succeed. He couldn't elevate a bad team to be a decent team. He's just not that guy. He's not the bad guy to make chicken salad out of chicken ****, and whether you want to blame Jason or not, our roster in 2008 and especially 2009 from a talent base level was absolute garbage.

The organization never threw it's weight behind Jason as the quarterback. You just can't do that. You can't draft a quarterback and then surround him with zero talent and then say "HERE! MAKE US ALL BETTER!". Once Gibbs was gone, no one really believed in Jason, from the front office to the fans, and I think that showed. They drafted Thomas and Kelly and Davis and then because of political bull**** they sat on the bench their entire rookie seasons. They neglected the o-line.

That whole period was a perfect example of how NOT to support a young quarterback. And again, I'm not excusing Jason's faults, because he has more than a few. But I don't think the success he had in Oakland was a fluke. He wasn't all-world, he wasn't going to blow you away, but he was solid and dependable. They had just the right amount of talent around him for him to be good, and some of his more aggravating issues with his mechanics and seeing ghost in the pocket and not being able to push the ball down field, even if they were still there, were there in MUCH smaller quantities, mainly because he had organizational support from above and, after suffering through JaMarcus Russell, his teammates and the fans out there in Oakland appreciated him.

If Campbell can take a job from Brandon Weeden I think he'll have the same sort of success he had in Oakland. He may not win them a Super Bowl, but as a holdover until they can get their guy, you can do WAY worse.

I think that's all anyone is saying.

[Mad Mike]

Cambell was not even "solid" for us. By the best of measurements he was way below average. He couldn't read defenses. Regularly ignored wide open receivers. And was generally slow to process information on the field. He didn't hold us back from a Super Bowl but the team itself stagnated while we waited for him to get better. He never did. Looking back on his entire career and performance on other teams, it's clear he never was meant to be a starting QB in the NFL.

[KCClybun]

Cambell was not even "solid" for us. By the best of measurements he was way below average. He couldn't read defenses. Regularly ignored wide open receivers. And was generally slow to process information on the field. He didn't hold us back from a Super Bowl but the team itself stagnated while we waited for him to get better. He never did. Looking back on his entire career and performance on other teams, it's clear he never was meant to be a starting QB in the NFL.

I don't think the team stagnated waiting for him to get better.

I think the team got old quickly while he was developing. And rather than help him, everyone just sort of waited around waiting for him to get better.

Rather than build a team around him, they handed him a team and said "take us to championships". And when he struggled, instead of trying to figure out how to fix the problem, the organization just sort of shrugged it's shoulders and kept doing what it was doing, focusing pretty much everywhere else.

That Gibbs was able to get that team into the playoffs was a minor miracle. But a lot of the team quit when Gibbs left, the inmates ran the asylum.

Like I said, Jason had problems. A lot. But I think people pin the teams failures entirely on him, instead of examining the make-up of the roster, the failure of the front office (including the legendary head coach), etc. Campbell wasn't perfect, far from it. But it was more than him at fault for the team's slump into the depths.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Trent Richardson is supposed to be a real good back.

Cedric Benson was supposed to be a real good back, too. Trent's going to have to show a little more for me to buy in to that. From what I saw of him last season I wasn't terribly impressed by how he looked most of the time he carried the ball although he did have a few eye-popping plays.

Like I said, Jason had problems. A lot. But I think people pin the teams failures entirely on him, instead of examining the make-up of the roster, the failure of the front office (including the legendary head coach), etc. Campbell wasn't perfect, far from it. But it was more than him at fault for the team's slump into the depths.

Wait... what? I thought it was pretty much universally accepted amongst Skins fans that we were bad because of the front office first and foremost. Vinny is the guy who shoulders the load of the blame (deservedly so). Campbell was merely a symptom of the mismanagement, starting from our misevaluation of him as a future starting QB and how we went about acquiring him. He still deserves most of the criticism directed at him, though.

He was not solid and he was not dependable in any way that mattered when it came to the business of actually winning games.

[SpacePenguin]

He was not solid and he was not dependable in any way that mattered when it came to the business of actually winning games.

Judging on how quickly Shanny dumped him, he agrees.

And are we really doing this again, ES? Please just let it die lol. He's gone. The team was a systematic failure, but so was he. It sucked. What really bothers me is the fact that this headline was put together only to generate this expired debate among Skins fans yet again.....and it worked.

[KCClybun]

Judging on how quickly Shanny dumped him, he agrees.

And are we really doing this again, ES? Please just let it die lol. He's gone. The team was a systematic failure, but so was he. It sucked. What really bothers me is the fact that this headline was put together only to generate this expired debate among Skins fans yet again.....and it worked.

I think the headline had more to do with depressing Cleveland fans, personally. But that's just me.

They better hope Bridgewater comes out next year...

[SpacePenguin]

I think the headline had more to do with depressing Cleveland fans, personally. But that's just me.

They better hope Bridgewater comes out next year...

Little of category A, little of B. When you read the bite-sized article though, it's complementary of Weeden, saying he deserves a chance in the new offense. The only specific complement paid to Campbell is his "Ben Rothlesburger size", which isn't really a new development. Then the linked video is all about Weeden as well.

Oh media, why do I ever click lmao....oh that's right, because of these deceptive headlines!!

Well I guess they work, at least.

[KCClybun]

Little of category A, little of B. When you read the bite-sized article though, it's complementary of Weeden, saying he deserves a chance in the new offense. The only specific complement paid to Campbell is his "Ben Rothlesburger size", which isn't really a new development. Then the linked video is all about Weeden as well.

Oh media, why do I ever click lmao....oh that's right, because of these deceptive headlines!!

Well I guess they work, at least.

True. Who knows if Campbell really has a legit shot at being the quarterback.

Browns fans' hopes rest on the shoulders Weeden, Campbell, and Hoyer.

...*shudders*

[Mr. Sinister]

The Jason Campbell discussion may be the most beaten down, helped up, beaten down again, murdered, and resurrected (to be beaten some more) subject in the history of ES

[MrJL]

Wait... what? I thought it was pretty much universally accepted amongst Skins fans that we were bad because of the front office first and foremost. Vinny is the guy who shoulders the load of the blame (deservedly so). Campbell was merely a symptom of the mismanagement, starting from our misevaluation of him as a future starting QB and how we went about acquiring him. He still deserves most of the criticism directed at him, though.

most of the fans who argue about this seem to see each part of the team as connected yet separate. We had a horrible GM who selected horrible players. But the coaches should have won with the horrible players. We had a terrible QB and terrible receivers. But the receivers were self-evidently bad, not because they had no QB, and the QB wasn't bad because he had no one to throw to.

Every segment that was terrible had no effect on another segment that was terrible

[darrelgreenie]

Judging on how quickly Shanny dumped him, he agrees.

Factually inaccurate revisionist history my friend.

---------- Post added May-19th-2013 at 10:09 PM ----------

K. So what about a team that can win 10 games with Jay Cutler, has Matt Forte at RB, and a real HC in Lovie Smith?

I have no idea what this means. JC didn't play 10 games for the Bears. These types of factually inaccurate statements allow revision history to take over. JC played 2 games for the Bears. The first game you could say he played poorly under extreme duress from Houston's front 7: 11/19 94 yards 4.9 avg 0-TDs 0-INTs. But, you know what? Cutler playing under the same extreme duress faired worse. Cutler 7/14 40 yards 2.9 avg 0-TDs 2-INTs. Funny how QBs play poorly under duress?

Next game the Bears OL was dominated by an even better front 7: the 49ers and Campbell played the way Cutler played against Houston. (you can look up the stats if you want)

But please let's not go back down the road of "If only every player on offense was a future HOFer then Campbell could've led us to the playoffs every year!"

Funny how I haven't seen one person even hint at strawman you pose above. But, then again that is the nature of many arguments in ES. Rather then argue against the point other posters make people decide to fabricate another view point (a view point that is not being made by the opposing argument) then argue against that.

The Redskins team that Campbell QB'd improved by whopping 2 games after he was replaced by a perennial pro-bowl coming off a pro-bowl season (McNabb) and the team's talent was upgraded.

[Symbol]

It's not really a question of arm strength - though that helps - its the willingness to make the downfield throw when that's what the coverage gives you rather than constantly go to the short read or check down.

That's what I'm saying though, Norv Turner might be the best thing for him. He might actually turn JC into the QB that many, including myself, felt he could be. He was the OC during the Jimmy Johnson days in Dallass, who helped to get Troy Aikman started, he was never a good HC, so let's skip his Washington years and San Diego years, but with the 49ers, he turned Alex Smith into a Pro Bowl talent, then he left and Smith became garbage again until Harbaugh. So, just saying, I actually believe that Turner might turn JC into a good QB.

[SpacePenguin]

I decided against beating the deadhorse of our past mediocre QBs.

The "Perennial probowler" that was outplayed by Rex Grossman almost sucked me in.

[KCClybun]

I decided against beating the deadhorse of our past mediocre QBs.

The "Perennial probowler" that was outplayed by Rex Grossman almost sucked me in.

...Well, to be fair, Donovan did go to 6 Pro Bowls, including 5 in a row, which pretty much him the very definition of "perennial", regardless of how much he sucked here.

[SpacePenguin]

...Well, to be fair, Donovan did go to 6 Pro Bowls, including 5 in a row, which pretty much him the very definition of "perennial", regardless of how much he sucked here.

I always looked upon his inexplicable national popularity as a result of Walrus Fatman's pass happy offense combined with a media conspiracy. So whatever "awards" he supposedly won were shams. ;p

To each their own though lol, I'm admittedly pretty biased against each NFC east rival. Then again, I recall many Eagles fans not thinking very highly of their probowler either, and his time here showed why....to all but his staunchest supporters.