The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[Bang]

Who honestly cares about keeping all native themes in sports?

Anyone here?

 

the only reason I'm concerned about the Redskins name is that it's a steamroll job, and misinformation and manipulation are driving the 'movement".

 

If you can't win with facts, then winning through bull**** is not really winning, is it?

relying on the ignorance of people to state your case isn't really accomplishing the actual goal, is it?

 

~Bang

[Burgold]

It was staged and it has me thinking if anyone can find a picture of Snyder taking a pic with a non-NA regular Redskin fan?

How often do regular fans of any sort pal around with billionaires? They tend to be protected and separated from us riff raff most of the time.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

My grandfather on my mothers side was born on a Cherokee reservation in Arkansas in 1920.  He's still kicking at 94.  He's had Redskins season tickets since the 1960s and is the reason our entire family are die-hard Skins fans.  We still have 4 in the upper deck at Fedex.

 

He, of course, loves the name and would hate to see it changed.  As we all would.  

 

I applaud the Dan Snyder PR campaign and the positive message he's trying to send, however belated it may be.  But...

 

Things change and the public's opinion can change with it.  Sports teams change their name all the time, all over the world.  If we do it on our terms, ahead of the rising tide, with a ton of class and are able to show pride in our history without condition…We could come outta this thing smelling like a rose.

 

That's a whole lot better than being perceived as a villainous, bigoted franchise.  Which is entirely plausible, and it is the worst possible outcome for someone like my grandfather, who deeply embraced the concept of the Redskins as the bootstrap underdogs who could rise up against the big-market, glamour teams like the Giants and Eagles and whoever else.  

 

I'm OK either way.  As long as its done right.  If we do it right, we will always be the "Redskins".

 

That's a great post. This is essentially where I stand. I would prefer to keep the name "Redskins" but it's not going to kill me if it changes. It's the same organization that I watched as a kid. Granted, I would only want the name to change if it is offending actual Native Americans. Those are the feelings I care about...not the white/black journalists who are taking up the cause. 

 

If something comes out that shows that more and more Native Americans want the name changed, then of course the organization should do it. 

[grego]

I don't doubt that.

 

 

heres what i'm seeing- universities like utah and florida state have deals with the tribes they are names after, whereby they agree to support the tribes in some way financially. (i support that, btw)

 

i'm gonna guess that if dan snyder was more vocal about things he has done for native americans (there seems to be some things hes done that havent been publicized), or had he done more charitable things for native americans when he took over the team, he would likely have more support from native american organizations.

 

even though the extremists would still object, i think they wouldnt have nearly the traction they have today. 

 

i could be wrong, but i doubt it. 

[88Comrade2000]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2014/04/30/senate-harry-reid-daniel-snyder-roger-goodell-donald-sterling-clippers/8522937/

 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/bell/2014/04/29/redskins-clippers-nba-nfl/8493557/

 

 

The pressure on Dan will be increasing now. 

[88Comrade2000]

I wonder what the reaction would be if a signficant portion of the Redskins players decide they could no longer play for us until we changed the name.  I honestly never see that happening but it would be interesting to see what would happen it they did.

 

What if RG3 demanded a trade over the name?   What if other players on other teams say they will refuse to play a game against a team called the Redskins?  I don't see either of those scenarios either.

 

i expect the drumbeat to get louder and lounde; especially if this team is playing for a superbowl birth or is in the superbowl.

[Tweedr01]

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2014/04/30/senate-harry-reid-daniel-snyder-roger-goodell-donald-sterling-clippers/8522937/

 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/bell/2014/04/29/redskins-clippers-nba-nfl/8493557/

 

 

The pressure on Dan will be increasing now. 

 

 

I wonder what the reaction would be if a signficant portion of the Redskins players decide they could no longer play for us until we changed the name.  I honestly never see that happening but it would be interesting to see what would happen it they did.

 

What if RG3 demanded a trade over the name?   What if other players on other teams say they will refuse to play a game against a team called the Redskins?  I don't see either of those scenarios either.

 

i expect the drumbeat to get louder and lounde; especially if this team is playing for a superbowl birth or is in the superbowl.

 

 

It won't, apples to wheelbarrows.

 

They won't, and it wouldn't.

 

He won't.  Forfeit, Redskins win.  Neither do I.

 

I expect drumbeat to be racist within 5 years.

[mikered30]

Good old Harry Reid, doing his best to stick his nose where it doesn't belong.

 

Here is the video: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/30/harry-reid-redskins_n_5242038.html

[Mocountyskins]

This is really depressing because eventually the name will be changed. Yea people have been complaining for a few decades now but with social media and everything it gets amplified so fast. With so many people wanting to "make a difference" and wanting to get behind a feel good cause, people wanting to get behind the equality for everyone and everything push, makes me think that it's going to be changed within 10 years. Snyder does not have to change the name and the NFL can not make him change the name but eventually enough bad PR could outweigh keeping the name and then it would be the beginning of the end. 

 

I don't know what to do should I start saying Redskins more out of spite and for no reason at all? If people are going to turn it into a bad word maybe I should use it as a bad word out of spite? Idk im so depressed right now.

 

Also what is up with so many people claiming to be Native American? I look at these pictures of people saying they are Native American and it's like no you're not. One of my great great great great grandfathers in the 1700s "married" a Native (Mohawk) and had children etc etc does that make me part Native American? I'm white and consider myself "white" I don't check the Native American box on any forms I fill out or anything. I'm sure I could if I wanted to but I don't. I don't think as myself as a native. I look on comment sections and all these people are claiming to be Native Americans. Even John Wall the other day said he was Native American like wtf.

[Spearfeather]

Rich Tandler said on Friday that he doesn't see a name change happening in his lifetime. I'm just guessing, but I think he's around 50.

[Kosher Ham]

MoCo, I believe that you have to be at least 25% from your mother's side to be considered NA.

 

Most of these other people are just crazy.

[elkabong82]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2014/04/30/senate-harry-reid-daniel-snyder-roger-goodell-donald-sterling-clippers/8522937/

 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/bell/2014/04/29/redskins-clippers-nba-nfl/8493557/

 

 

The pressure on Dan will be increasing now. 

 

Yeah because 90% of African Americans clearly approved of Sterling's message like 90% of NAs don't take issue with Redskins.

 

NBA did what it did because the players threatened boycott and that affects their wallet. No such action is threatening the NFL's wallet. The only pressure on Dan will be from the same agenda-pushers using piss poor comparisons between Sterling situation and ours.

 

But let them push that wagon out to market. Let people compare Sterling's actual, awful racism with Redskins that most NAs take no offense to and that team doesn't use in a racist manner at all. 

[Larry]

Also what is up with so many people claiming to be Native American? I look at these pictures of people saying they are Native American and it's like no you're not. One of my great great great great grandfathers in the 1700s "married" a Native (Mohawk) and had children etc etc does that make me part Native American? I'm white and consider myself "white" I don't check the Native American box on any forms I fill out or anything. I'm sure I could if I wanted to but I don't. I don't think as myself as a native. I look on comment sections and all these people are claiming to be Native Americans. Even John Wall the other day said he was Native American like wtf.

I'm terribly sorry that many people do not employ the same standard of racial identification as you do. (Which appears to consist of looking at somebody's picture).

Perhaps if you could specify exactly what standard you want everybody else to use, I'm sure everybody else will be happy to apply the standards you demand.

MoCo, I believe that you have to be at least 25% from your mother's side to be considered NA.

Most of these other people are just crazy.

See? That's how you do it.

Pull some standard out of your Philly, and simply announce it, like a King declaring what the law will henceforth be.

[chipwhich]

All you have to do is self identify

 

I am a native american. 

[codeorama]

I found out that my great great grandmother was 100% Powhatan Indian.  My son did a project on the Powhatan and as we were researching it, my great uncle told us.  He keeps our family tree so that was pretty cool.

That being said, I'm personally not offended by the name of the team... LOL...

 

However, I still say, I find it absurd that so many NON Native Americans can speak as to IF the name is racist or not.  Name a team the Blackskins... see what happens.

 

I think the name will change eventually.  

[Mocountyskins]

So is it okay if I start to check the native America box for better college benefits or for better job status on job applications because people love to get diversity in schools and in the work place. Would it be okay for me to just take away those slots from real native Americans just because I'm like 1/60th native? Of course not. All I'm saying Larry is there has to be some sort of standard besides just self identification.

[Kosher Ham]

MoCo, I have no idea what Larry was meaning about the "philly".

 

In my tribe to be recognized, it is indeed 25% bloodline from the mother's side. For example; because I am only 50% and my brother also, our children would not be recognized as NA because neither of our wives are NA. However both of my sisters children would be.

 

As far as the rest of the world's standard...I have no idea.

[Larry]

However, I still say, I find it absurd that so many NON Native Americans can speak as to IF the name is racist or not.  Name a team the Blackskins... see what happens.

As opposed to, say, people arguing that the opinions of real Natives reactions, in the real world, to a real word, isn't as important as the reactions of imaginary people, in an imaginary world, to an imaginary word?

[Larry]

So is it okay if I start to check the native America box for better college benefits or for better job status on job applications because people love to get diversity in schools and in the work place. Would it be okay for me to just take away those slots from real native Americans just because I'm like 1/60th native? Of course not. All I'm saying Larry is there has to be some sort of standard besides just self identification.

No, that's not all you said.

You said that people were claiming to be Native, and you'd looked at their pictures, and pronounced that they didn't pass your test.

And, funny, asking people about their demographics seems to be just perfectly acceptable for every other public opinion poll. Somehow I assume that Gallup doesn't demand that subjects jump through hoops to prove that they're white, when they're projecting whether Hillary would win the election, if it were held today.

It's only one particular poll, where people are desperately searching for some excuse to ignore it, where suddenly this long-established practice suddenly becomes unacceptable.

Although, I will point out for probably the 50th time, the people who are loudly announcing that this long-accepted practice isn't acceptable in this one, particular, poll, don;t seem inclined to run their own poll, using their own standard, either.

They aren't pointing at some different poll, and claiming that this other one is better. They're simply trying to get everybody to ignore all data, and just take their claim as fact.

[Larry]

MoCo, I have no idea what Larry was meaning about the "philly".

OT diversion.

Many years ago, on this board, I was typing a post, in which I wished the phrase "No way in . . . ". And then stopped.

The board had rules, prohibiting the use of offensive language. And I was aware that many people felt that the word normally used to complete that phrase was a swear word. So I didn't want to type it. nor to type asterisks, instead.

So, I began mentally searching for synonyms for the commonly used term to refer to the theological place of eternal punishment.

And I concluded that the word "Dallas" was an acceptable synonym for that term. That it contained enough parallels to said theological place of eternal punishment so as to communicate the same concept, to the audience of this board.

Since that time, I have used the term "Dallas" whenever I have felt the urge to use that other word. I fond the terms interchangeable.

Shortly thereafter, I found myself engaged in a similar search, for a word with which to complete the phrase "Pulled it out of your . . . . "

And came to the conclusion, once again, that the term "Philly" was pretty interchangeable with the terminology more commonly used to refer to the solidous excretory orifice.

As such, ever since, I have used the terms "Dallas" and "Philly" as synonymy for those commonly used, but offensive to some, other terms.

Permission is hereby granted for others to join in my efforts to make these substitutions part of the SOP on this board.

 

In my tribe to be recognized, it is indeed 25% bloodline from the mother's side. For example; because I am only 50% and my brother also, our children would not be recognized as NA because neither of our wives are NA. However both of my sisters children would be.

 

In my tribe it is not. Over the span of my life, their standards have changed twice.

When I was born, their standard was that the applicant had to demonstrate at least 1/8 Native ancestry.

When I was 3, the tribe changed the rules, requiring 1/4 ancestry. (Thus resulting in the curious situation in which one of my brothers was a tribal member, but the other was not, because he was born after the rule changed.)

I'm not sure how long ago (but it was at least 20 years), they changed their rules again. I think that the current rule is that any Native ancestry qualifies. (My youngest brother could now apply for membership, and become a member. As could his son. Neither has bothered to do so.)

[skinsmarydu]

So, "Redskins Name" is trending on my Yahoo...I click.
The first thing on the search page is "REDSKINS HOODIES ARE HERE!!"
I already have one, but if you're gonna throw that headline at me, I'll take another. (I figured it's a great way to get the name out there.)
Hail!

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Some quick thoughts.

 

1. The vast majority of people who claim 1/16th Cherokee blood or whatever are probably just stating some long-held family myth as fact. DNA testing among geneologists in recent years has pretty much proven this. This is a belief that is particularly prevalent in the black community for deep and complicated reasons.

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304636404577297502843483454

 

Mr. Gates says that reveal "always gets an emotional response, positively or negatively." For example, African-American guests are often surprised at how much European blood they carry and their lack of significant Native American ancestry. "It's the biggest myth in African-American genealogy: 'My great grandmother was a Cherokee princess,' " he says, adding, "The average slave and the average Native American didn't even see each other, which makes it very hard to mate."

 

I tend to dismiss all these claims of Native American ancestry out of hand unless you can prove to me that your family has lived in Oklahoma or the Dakotas for the past hundred years or so. (I'm sure someone is about to scream at me about their grandmother but whatever).

 

2. The reason people on this board care about this issue is because it is their team. People here are circling the wagons (irony!!)

 

Seriously, if the Cleveland Indians were the ones getting all the heat right now. There would be a two page thread on it. Bang would be annoucing how unimportant it is and how people on both sides of the issue are both hypocrites and how everyone is faking their opinions anyway. And Larry's Orthodox Liberalism would be on full display as he demanded a name change to the Cleveland Indigenous Peoples. Predicto would be talking about how good the restaurants in San Francisco are.

 

3. At one point, I think I made the argument that what Dan Snyder needed to do was become an advocate for Native Americans. Well, he's done that in the most Dan Snyder way possible. Throw a ton of money at the problem and put an incompetent shyster in charge of distributing it. I probably should have seen this coming, but Snyder's activism just makes me support a name change more. I'm reminded of Dennis Reynold's line about Frank Reynolds in It's Always Sunny:

 

People don't trust you, Frank; you're a piece of ****. And you're ugly. And you ooze sleaze. And you'r very, very ugly.

 

The name should probably be changed, but the reason this is an issue that won't die is because people just want to punch Dan Snyder in the face, and this seems to be the best way to do it. That's certainly not fair. But neither is becoming a billionaire by selling billboards in toilet stalls.

[Tweedr01]

Some quick thoughts.

 

1. The vast majority of people who claim 1/16th Cherokee blood or whatever are probably just stating some long-held family myth as fact. DNA testing among geneologists in recent years has pretty much proven this. This is a belief that is particularly prevalent in the black community for deep and complicated reasons.

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304636404577297502843483454

 

 

 

 

I tend to dismiss all these claims of Native American ancestry out of hand unless you can prove to me that your family has lived in Oklahoma or the Dakotas for the past hundred years or so. (I'm sure someone is about to scream at me about their grandmother but whatever).

 

2. The reason people on this board care about this issue is because it is their team. People here are circling the wagons (irony!!)

 

Seriously, if the Cleveland Indians were the ones getting all the heat right now. There would be a two page thread on it. Bang would be annoucing how unimportant it is and how people on both sides of the issue are both hypocrites and how everyone is faking their opinions anyway. And Larry's Orthodox Liberalism would be on full display as he demanded a name change to the Cleveland Indigenous Peoples. Predicto would be talking about how good the restaurants in San Francisco are.

 

3. At one point, I think I made the argument that what Dan Snyder needed to do was become an advocate for Native Americans. Well, he's done that in the most Dan Snyder way possible. Throw a ton of money at the problem and put an incompetent shyster in charge of distributing it. I probably should have seen this coming, but Snyder's activism just makes me support a name change more. I'm reminded of Dennis Reynold's line about Frank Reynolds in It's Always Sunny:

 

 

 

 

The name should probably be changed, but the reason this is an issue that won't die is because people just want to punch Dan Snyder in the face, and this seems to be the best way to do it. That's certainly not fair. But neither is becoming a billionaire by selling billboards in toilet stalls.

 

1. Sounds about right, you're missing a few states though, which I expected.
2. Yes and no, it is our team, but we've actually done our research unlike some.  Way to call people out and put words in their mouth to fit your agenda.  How about we stick with the facts?
3. I agree, lot's of people dislike Dan Snyder, and the Always Sunny quote is pretty good.  That's not a reason to change the name though.  I'm not sure which toilet seat billboarder you dislike, but I don't know what that has to do with anything, or even why it's unfair.

[Mocountyskins]

I didn't say I had a test I said that I questioned if some people were being honest or not in the comment section of some articles. Surely there are people who lie to troll or to just feel important or for many reasons. If g bush y he was Mexican wouldent a lot of people bring up his picture and his information and be like wish wait a sec. When there are 1500 comments and half of them claim to be NA wouldent you be a little suspicious if they all looked white?

[Larry]

Some quick thoughts.

 

1. The vast majority of people who claim 1/16th Cherokee blood or whatever are probably just stating some long-held family myth as fact. DNA testing among geneologists in recent years has pretty much proven this. This is a belief that is particularly prevalent in the black community for deep and complicated reasons.

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304636404577297502843483454

 

 

 

 

I tend to dismiss all these claims of Native American ancestry out of hand unless you can prove to me that your family has lived in Oklahoma or the Dakotas for the past hundred years or so. (I'm sure someone is about to scream at me about their grandmother but whatever).

Some quick thoughts.

I tend to dismiss people making bombastic claims of "The vast majority of people who claim 1/16th Cherokee blood" who don't even attempt to support their bombastic claim.

And frankly, I don't have to prove my ancestry to you in any way whatsoever. You want to sit on your throne and pontificate about my ancestry, then I've got some news about your mother that may come as a shock to you.

 

2. The reason people on this board care about this issue is because it is their team. People here are circling the wagons (irony!!)

 

Seriously, if the Cleveland Indians were the ones getting all the heat right now. There would be a two page thread on it. Bang would be annoucing how unimportant it is and how people on both sides of the issue are both hypocrites and how everyone is faking their opinions anyway. And Larry's Orthodox Liberalism would be on full display as he demanded a name change to the Cleveland Indigenous Peoples. Predicto would be talking about how good the restaurants in San Francisco are.

 

 

And your ability to telepathically testify as to the motives of people who you don't even know the names of is, well, apparently about as reliable as your ability to determine the genealogy of myself, and millions of other people.