The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[Tweedr01]

I imagine there will be many more players over the next few years who come out. More and more as we get closer to the name change.

Is this serious? He didn't say one thing about changing the name, he said we should probably meet with the tribes. We did that, we started a foundation to assist them and help them with real needs. There wasn't one thing he said about changing the name. Way to use his insight to actually help Native Americans as a name change push. Good Lord, some people will use anything to further their windbag agenda.

[burgundyrush]

No, London said he started to feel uneasy about the word and asked for Snyder to go out into the NA community and get their thoughts on the name. Snyder never did that. Instead he went out there to find out how he can help. There is nothing in his letter that says he polled Native Americans on the name.

[Tweedr01]

No, London said he started to feel uneasy about the word and asked for Snyder to go out into the NA community and get their thoughts on the name. Snyder never did that. Instead he went out there to find out how he can help. There is nothing in his letter that says he polled Native Americans on the name.

Uh, yeah he did, and as we already know they had bigger issues.

Lol, really? Really? You would have trusted a poll Snyder did? Bwahahaha, come on man, even I would have been skeptical of that. He would have been roasted for holding his own poll.

How many tribes does he need to visit to make you happy? He visited a ton, and everyone of them couldn't have cared less about the name, they wanted actual help.

[Spearfeather]

 ..... asked for Snyder to go out into the NA community and get their thoughts on the name. Snyder never did that. Instead he went out there to find out how he can help. There is nothing in his letter that says he polled Native Americans on the name.

 

 

Snyder :

I wanted and needed to hear firsthand what Native Americans truly thought of our name, our logo, and whether we were, in fact, upholding the principle of respect in regard to the Native American community.

So over the past four months, my staff and I travelled to 26 Tribal reservations across twenty states to listen and learn first-hand about the views, attitudes, and experiences of the Tribes. We were invited into their homes, their Tribal Councils and their communities to learn more about the extraordinary daily challenges in their lives.

"I appreciated your sincerity to learn about our culture and the real-life issues we face on a daily basis," Pueblo of Zuni Governor Arlen Quetawki told us after we toured his reservation. "I look forward to working together with you to improve the lives of Native Americans in any way possible."

The more I heard, the more I’ve learned, and the more I saw, the more resolved I became about helping to address the challenges that plague the Native American community. In speaking face-to-face with Native American leaders and community members, it’s plain to see they need action, not words.

 

In addition to travelling and meeting in-person with Tribal communities, we took a survey of tribes across 100 reservations so that we could have an accurate assessment of the most pressing needs in each community.

 

 

 

 

I would be willing to bet that there was at least one question on those surveys, about the name.

 

 

-

[Duckus]

Is this serious? He didn't say one thing about changing the name, he said we should probably meet with the tribes. We did that, we started a foundation to assist them and help them with real needs. There wasn't one thing he said about changing the name. Way to use his insight to actually help Native Americans as a name change push. Good Lord, some people will use anything to further their windbag agenda.

1) Jesus. Calm down. Hahaha

2) Where did I say he said anything about changing the name? He said he became "uncomfortable" with the name. All I said that more and more former players will say similar things. It will increase as we move closer to a name change which I think will happen one day. That's all.

[Larry]

No, London said he started to feel uneasy about the word and asked for Snyder to go out into the NA community and get their thoughts on the name. Snyder never did that. Instead he went out there to find out how he can help. There is nothing in his letter that says he polled Native Americans on the name.

 

(Somebody else already did.) 

[burgundyrush]

Yeah I call bull****. Why are we still rapping about this anyway. Snyder lose any sponsors? No, so the name stays end of story.

[Tweedr01]

1) Jesus. Calm down. Hahaha

2) Where did I say he said anything about changing the name? He said he became "uncomfortable" with the name. All I said that more and more former players will say similar things. It will increase as we move closer to a name change which I think will happen one day. That's all.

Sorry dude, this team means a lot to me. It took me years to support the wizards. The misinformation on this just gets on my last nerve.

Yeah I call bull****. Why are we still rapping about this anyway. Snyder lose any sponsors? No, so the name stays end of story.

I must have misunderstood your post then. Sorry, again, this is my team, if it was a legit reason ok, but I'm not laying down for lies.

[Commander PK]

I absolutely despise and abhor the tactics being employed in trying to force this change.  Is this really how people want change to come in our "progressive society?"  Where does it end?  When every single thing that could possibly be offensive to anyone anywhere is eradicated?  

 

To compare Donald Sterling's comments to the Washington Redskins is an absolutely ridiculous comparison that has no basis in reality whatsoever.  One man states that he does not want his girlfriend bringing minorities to the games with her, because he does not want her to be seen with them.  The other is the name of a Football team that the overwhelming majority of the people supposedly offended, are not offended by the name at all, and many are fans of the team because of the name.       

 

I intend on visiting the NFL Hall of Fame for the first time in June with my family.  I will make a special point to have every single member of my family including the two year old decked out from head to toe in Washington Redskins gear.  

[Commander PK]

To be very specific, I abhor the fact that the people who find the name offensive are getting all the press, but those that do not are completely and utterly ignored to push an agenda.  

 

Remember fair and balanced?  Where has it gone?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

To be very specific, I abhor the fact that the people who find the name offensive are getting all the press, but those that do not are completely and utterly ignored to push an agenda.  

 

Remember fair and balanced?  Where has it gone?

 

It's a shame that the Redskins do not have a way to present their argument. If only they owned four radio stations and had an entire PR team - featuring former Senators and White House operatives - on their side. And the support of a monolithic sports league and its many, many broadcast partners. If only....if only...... 

 

It really is unfair how Dan Snyder is standing all alone on this.

[Tweedr01]

It's a shame that the Redskins do not have a way to present their argument. If only they owned four radio stations and had an entire PR team - featuring former Senators and White House operatives - on their side. And the support of a monolithic sports league and its many, many broadcast partners. If only....if only......

It really is unfair how Dan Snyder is standing all alone on this.

Sorry, words are wind.

Instead of talking they actually did something, but he got raked over the coals for that. I think focusing on the do is more important, but don't let that smug weigh you down too much.

[Commander PK]

Sorry, words are wind.

Instead of talking they actually did something, but he got raked over the coals for that. I think focusing on the do is more important, but don't let that smug weigh you down too much.

 

It is very clear that nothing he does short of changing the name will be spun in a positive light by the media.  Even if he did change the name, they would pat themselves on the back for "job well done" and take all the credit, while painting Snyder as only doing this because it affected his wallet somehow.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

There is not doubt that the fact that seemingly nobody likes Dan Snyder is playing a role on this issue never going away. As I said earler, last year I suggested that Snyder start a foundation. I assumed that would generate some positive PR.

 

Then he did, and my immediate reaction was "Oh, well, he did that in the sleaziest, most self-serving way possible, didn't he?" My guess is, anything he did would have generated that reaction in me, because I assume everything he does is sleazy and self-serving. And this is probably my problem more than his.

 

My view on the name is that I tend to think that all Native-American related themes should be out of sports under the premise that cultural appropriation is troubling to me. And "Redskins" seems like the second least defensible of all the names and logos out there. (Chief Wahoo is ludicrous). If the Skins were not my team, I would certainly be in favor of the name change. This isn't a passion for me, but I do like fighting on the Internet.

[Tweedr01]

There is not doubt that the fact that seemingly nobody likes Dan Snyder is playing a role on this issue never going away. As I said earler, last year I suggested that Snyder start a foundation. I assumed that would generate some positive PR.

Then he did, and my immediate reaction was "Oh, well, he did that in the sleaziest, most self-serving way possible, didn't he?" My guess is, anything he did would have generated that reaction in me, because I assume everything he does is sleazy and self-serving. And this is probably my problem more than his.

My view on the name is that I tend to think that all Native-American related themes should be out of sports under the premise that cultural appropriation is troubling to me. And "Redskins" seems like the second least defensible of all the names and logos out there. (Chief Wahoo is ludicrous). If the Skins were not my team, I would certainly be in favor of the name change. This isn't a passion for me, but I do like fighting on the Internet.

Hahaha, well then just say that. Actually, with how long you've been here, you should probably put it in your sig. Appreciate the honesty though. I'm still on the other side, I have family that knows him, he's way more boring than advertised. I would compare him to your basic nerd who has a crap ton of money. My cousin was bragging about stuffing him in basketball the other day, and took a selfie with Dan in the background. Lol, he looks like a nerd. Either way, I think he just took bad advice for years from close friends, and it's going to follow him for a long time.

[UK Skins]

Sadly even the BBC is getting in on the act now....

 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/american-football/27258045

 

As the fallout continues from the National Basketball Association's decision to hand a life ban to Los Angeles Clippers owner Donald Sterling for making racist comments, the emphasis is shifting back to a debate over the use of recognised racial slurs as team names.

 

[Larry]

"recognised racial slurs"?

My opinion of the BBC's thoroughness of research has slipped a bit.

(Granted, they've still got a long way to go, before they reach most American "journalism".)

[grego]

Sadly even the BBC is getting in on the act now....

 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/american-football/27258045

 

 

at least the article that this one linked to ( http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24027457 ) from september last year talked somewhat in depth of the actual history of the name. 

 

i give the bbc credit for that, as its more than you see in virtually any garbage blog (or worse, in an actual newspaper) here in the US.

[RFKFedEx]

Here's a story from a HS in Bucks County, PA. Suburban Philly is Definitely Iggle's territory, though I don't believe the NFCE rivalry is relevant to this particular controversy. 

 

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2014/05/06/309815127/can-student-journalists-ban-redskins-from-their-school-paper

[grego]

Here's a story from a HS in Bucks County, PA. Suburban Philly is Definitely Iggle's territory, though I don't believe the NFCE rivalry is relevant to this particular controversy.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2014/05/06/309815127/can-student-journalists-ban-redskins-from-their-school-paper

The old "the word is defined as a racial slur" argument.

I usually stop reading at that point.

When an article attempts to have some kind of depth, I have no problem with it.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Chuck Norris is 1/8 Cherokee. That has nothing to do with heritage. THE MAN ATE A FRIGGIN INDIAN!!!!

[Dallsux]

Somewhere between 4 to 5 percent of the population can make a claim of being 1/32nd Native American.

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/05/elizabeth_warren_says_she_s_1_32nd_native_american_how_many_people_have_that_heritage_.html

 

That means that they have a great great great grandparent in their family tree who was Native. That is a rather tenuous claim of heritage for an extremely small part of the population. Yet, if you go into any bar in America and take a poll, you will probably find that 1/3rd of the people sitting there think they have a Cherokee great-grandfather.

 

I'm not accusing anyone here of anything. I just find it odd that on a board for a team based in the DC metro region, so many posters have so much Native American ancestry. Maybe there is a tribe hidden in Montgomery County that no one knows about.

 

All I am saying is that there is a pervasive cultural myth in this country about Native American ancestry. Families share these myths over generations and it just becomes fact in people's mind. But less than 5 percent of the country has any right to make that claim (and that right may be shaky at best depending on how connected we should really feel to ancestors from six generations back).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_tribes_in_Virginia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Native_American_tribes_in_Maryland

 

In NoVa, the Algonquian tribe was the largest, & in Sterling, Va. there is acually a whole park, complete with the biggest swimming pool I've ever been to, named after them. For natives of the area, it's really not all that surprising for people to have NA roots.

 

There were a lot of Native American tribes in that area. The Potomac River is also named for a tribe, IIRC. One tribe in Va has offered Dan Snyder the same thing as the Seminoles in Fl to be adopted so they don't have to change the logo. If he is forced to hange the name, he can use the tribe name & no one can say anything about it.

[Dallsux]

There is not doubt that the fact that seemingly nobody likes Dan Snyder is playing a role on this issue never going away. As I said earler, last year I suggested that Snyder start a foundation. I assumed that would generate some positive PR.

 

Then he did, and my immediate reaction was "Oh, well, he did that in the sleaziest, most self-serving way possible, didn't he?" My guess is, anything he did would have generated that reaction in me, because I assume everything he does is sleazy and self-serving. And this is probably my problem more than his.

 

My view on the name is that I tend to think that all Native-American related themes should be out of sports under the premise that cultural appropriation is troubling to me. And "Redskins" seems like the second least defensible of all the names and logos out there. (Chief Wahoo is ludicrous). If the Skins were not my team, I would certainly be in favor of the name change. This isn't a passion for me, but I do like fighting on the Internet.

Wow. That has to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever read. The name offends you only because others have simply brought it to light that it could be offensive so therefore, you're offended (I'm assuming, of course, that as you were growing up a Redskins fan & people weren't whining about the name, the thought never crossed your mind that the name could be offensive). Except, you're a Skins fan so you're not offended, or at least not enough to want to see the name changed, so therefore, you're not in favor of the name change. However, if you were not a fan of the team & thereby affecting you personally, you would totally be in favor of changing the name. But you're making an argument based on a dictionary definition about the name being a "slur" because you like to fight on the internet about the very team you support. You are incredibly double-minded.

 

That said, I am very much against the name change based on the fact that is largely not offensive to the people who matter the most. Acccording to everything I've read & heard myself, Native Americans themselves either couldn't care less or do not want the name to change. There are Native American schools that carry the moniker "Redskins" as there team mascot. Simple fact is, you can't please everyone. Some people are just going to have to live with the fact that they are offended. I am offended every day by the things I see & hear. Things on tv, things on the radio, things at work. If every time I was offended about something I cried about it, I wouldn't get anything done.

 

The other side of this is, where does it end? Let's say for the sake of the argument that the Redskins are forced to change their name. Who's next? Are atheists going to ask that the Saints change their name because they don't believe that a team should represent a religion? Are animal rights extremists going to demand that any team named after an animal be changed because they believe that a team named after animals supports or promotes hunting & poaching? I mean, where does it end? People don't think about things like this anymore. They want instant gratifiation right now without thinking about the future consequences. All that matters is right now. Change the name & we'll deal with the consequences of our actions later. It's ridiculous.

[Commander PK]

[China]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_tribes_in_Virginia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Native_American_tribes_in_Maryland

 

In NoVa, the Algonquian tribe was the largest, & in Sterling, Va. there is acually a whole park, complete with the biggest swimming pool I've ever been to, named after them. For natives of the area, it's really not all that surprising for people to have NA roots.

 

There were a lot of Native American tribes in that area. The Potomac River is also named for a tribe, IIRC. 

 

 

Actually, the Potomac is the name of an Algonquian village, not a separate tribe.