J-bomb Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 3rd and 5th round trade isnt Madden like. If you think a 3rd and 5th can be more impactful than Harvin, I got a bridge to sell you. Trying to save or stockpile pick gets you Helu, Hankerson, and Niles Paul instead of JJ Watt. say no to giving picks away! an last I heard on twitter (Ecstoner) it was a 2nd an 4th...your forgetting the key factor in why it wont happen besides the picks, the $$$$ we don't have an will need to resign our own fa's an some low tier additions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I thought there was just a twitter post in the free agency thread that sound most insiders and nfl people wold be shocked if the Vikings got more than a 3rd for Harvin. He also won't get a $15mil plus contract. He's just complaining because he has far outplayed his rookie contract and wants a long term commitment. As long as he gets paid he will be fine. 8-9 a year would make him happy and probably be a steal by the time us contract is up if he continues performing as he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 No thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I thought there was just a twitter post in the free agency thread that sound most insiders and nfl people wold be shocked if the Vikings got more than a 3rd for Harvin. He also won't get a $15mil plus contract. He's just complaining because he has far outplayed his rookie contract and wants a long term commitment. As long as he gets paid he will be fine. 8-9 a year would make him happy and probably be a steal by the time us contract is up if he continues performing as he has. Or he'll just continue being a malcontent. Or the Vikings will just let him holdout. That's what I'd do if I couldn't get what I wanted for him. Let him hold out, keep him out of my lockerroom, let him incur all those fines, then let him walk into free agency with his stock damaged. "As long as he'll get paid he'll be fine" has been used to justify a lot of dumb free agency signings. I'm sure that was the thought with Haynesworth as well. Getting a lot of money rarely "helps" malcontents, particularly when you get what you want after acting like a whining, screaming baby. When you act like a jerk, have little work ethic, and get away with stepping on a dude's face and then someone plays you $100 million, you're not very bloody likely to reform when what you're doing works for you. Same thing applies on a somewhat lesser scale here. Besides that, we've got a ton of money invested in the wide receiver position already. Even if/when Moss restructes/takes a pay cut, between Pierre and Josh you've got $14.2 million on the books at receiver. Plus we have to deal with the cap hit. If we traded for and then signed (because any trade would be contigent of giving Harvin a long term deal) Harvin at the low end of that you're looking at having $22.7 million tied up at one position on your football team, provided we keep Josh and his contract doesn't void, and at this point there's no real reason that it should be. That's not counting any deal we give Fred Davis. So at that point, people are advocating that in order to make room for Harvin, we either restructure/ask guys to take a pay cut, or we outright release him. On top of not having the best locker room reputation in the NFL (which wouldn't make our guys happy), we would then be missing a 3rd and 5th round pick to fill any of the holes we'd have, plus we'd have little-to-no money to fill those holes in free agency. All for one guy who's history suggests that in a couple years if he feels he's not being compensated well enough or getting enough touches (and you have got to be selfless in this offense, you have to run block, you have to realize you're not going to be the first target on every play) could get antsy and start pissing and moaning again. No matter what angle you come at this from other than the "OH MY GERRRDDD WE'D BE UNSTOPABBBLLLEE!!!!!111!11!!!" fantasy football way of looking at it, it's a bad move. Certainly on the business side it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Next CJ and Fitz ain't worth that money. They just don't impact the game enough for 16 million a year. If it's a skill player that is worth it is AP and Harvin. Harvin has the potential to be a 2500 all purpose yards with 15-20 tds a year. Those players are not giving you that. Now your getting WAY out there. Harvin has never had even 1,000 yards receiving, his best season ever he had 1,300 combined yards from scrimmage, his best year ever was 8TDs from scrimmage. Even if you add in his return TDs his best year was 9TDs - Santana Moss in a reduced role last year had 8 TDs. Last season Harvin had 8 catches over 20 yards - CJ had 40. Talk of 2,500 combined yards and 15-20 TDs a year is just that, talk. Harvin is a good player and would be a great slot receiver on this team but he is NOT a weapon at receiver in the same bracket as Calvin Johnson. He is not coming here anyway so its all moot but lets at least keep the conversation realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I think NLC nailed it perfectly, Shanny & Co. have worked so hard to drag us out of the abyss, why do some want to go back to the edge again? We have young talent @ WR that can grow with Griffin and develop the instincts and chemistry that really determine how well they can produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWinSkins83 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Now your getting WAY out there. Harvin has never had even 1,000 yards receiving, his best season ever he had 1,300 combined yards from scrimmage, his best year ever was 8TDs from scrimmage. Even if you add in his return TDs his best year was 9TDs - Santana Moss in a reduced role last year had 8 TDs. Last season Harvin had 8 catches over 20 yards - CJ had 40. Talk of 2,500 combined yards and 15-20 TDs a year is just that, talk.Harvin is a good player and would be a great slot receiver on this team but he is NOT a weapon at receiver in the same bracket as Calvin Johnson. He is not coming here anyway so its all moot but lets at least keep the conversation realistic. Harvin been playing with scrub QBs and Vikes are a running team. CJ is on a team that passes the ball 40 times a game. His stats are inflated. ---------- Post added February-14th-2013 at 06:30 AM ---------- I think NLC nailed it perfectly, Shanny & Co. have worked so hard to drag us out of the abyss, why do some want to go back to the edge again? We have young talent @ WR that can grow with Griffin and develop the instincts and chemistry that really determine how well they can produce. Harvin is 25 years old he can grow with RG3 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Harvin been playing with scrub QBs and Vikes are a running team. CJ is on a team that passes the ball 40 times a game. His stats are inflated. Calvin Johnson does have inflated stats because the Lions are so pass heavy with no running game. He is also the focal point of their offense and the only receiver they have and sees constant double coverage - and yet he still racks up 40 plus 20 yard catches. Meanwhile Harvin plays on a run heavy team with the best back in football with constant 8 man boxes leaving single coverage outside has 8 catches of over 20 yards and only 1 (ONE) catch over 40 yards. The success and focus the Vikes put on running the ball should reduce some of Harvins stats but open up all kinds of downfield opportunities off play action and he has only 8 catches over 20 yards?? Fact is Harvin is an excellent slot receiver who is great in space with the ball in his hand - but he is not a good outside receiver and is not a threat down the field. I'm not arguing that Harvin is not a good football player and a dangerous weapon and I accept he was handcuffed by the system and QB play to an extent but he is still below the level of a Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald type wide receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Harvin is 25 years old he can grow with RG3 too. I think their point was that we have young guys who can grow with RG3 and aren't pain in the ass malcontents who complain if they don't get the ball as much as they want, walk out of training camp when they get mad, and get in yelling matches with their coaches, all while demanding top 5 WR money. Either way, the Skins aren't going to get Harvin. Better to start learning how to cope with that now rather than be bitter about the disappointment later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipman5544 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 If the deal is right I don't see why exactly not. Obviously we can't be giving up 2nds because they're like our 1's now. Anyway Harvin would be great in the fact that he fixes our kick returner issues, he would be deadly having Garcon and any of our other receivers line up beside him, and most importantly in my mind is a guy who can be the pitch man on the read option if we continue to use that system. He's a PLAYMAKER. If he can get his attitude right, which being closer to home may help, I.E D-Hall, he could be worth a look at. The obvious negatives are present, but with the salary he wants we can back load his contract, and based on what I hear he wants a long term deal anyway. We would probably lose a guy like Fred Davis, but honestly he makes more bonehead moves than Harvin. Look for a decent tackle prospect in the 3rd which they do exist and also maybe add some depth at corner or safety through late picks and free-agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 3rd and 5th round trade isnt Madden like. If you think a 3rd and 5th can be more impactful than Harvin, I got a bridge to sell you. Trying to save or stockpile pick gets you Helu, Hankerson, and Niles Paul instead of JJ Watt. Not every pick is going to produce an all star, pro bowl, monster player. You need those picks for depth. We've been on our front office's ass for years to stop giving away picks, now people want to start giving them away. We just brought in Garcon and Morgan last year. The FO isn't going to 1) give away picks for an often injured WR and 2) pay him top dollar when we just paid 2 last year. You build depth with picks. While Helu, Hankerson and Paul aren't great, they are depth we've never had. Get to the Patriots level first and then you can go get your Harvin's of the world. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have him here, but it's just not feasable this year. Stay the course and continue to put depth around Griffin and then you'll be able to get Harvin as a free agent next year. Even if he is traded, I doubt he signs long term somewhere without testing the market first. By then, Morgan will have either been extended a new contract or let go by us. ---------- Post added February-14th-2013 at 09:58 AM ---------- He has a history of attitude and maturity problems apparently dating all the way back to HS. That ain't going away, at least not any time soon. That is usually the kind of guy who is more likely to cash in a big payday and then just coast along than a known hard worker and attitude free player. There is no way to know what will happen; it is up in the air. So the question is, are you willing to spend a couple of draft picks as well as sign him to a $10-15 million per year contract and basically just hope that it works out ok and that he doesn't simply phone it in after getting the bucks? That is quite a bit to gamble on. The only reason why he wouldn't pull that crap here is Shanahan. After Haynesworth, players know this isn't the place to get paid and sit on your ass. Shanahan has more respect from players than Leslie Frazier. Harvin wouldn't be able to pull any of that crap and he'd find himself in more conditioning tests then he'd want to be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 The only reason why he wouldn't pull that crap here is Shanahan. After Haynesworth, players know this isn't the place to get paid and sit on your ass. Shanahan has more respect from players than Leslie Frazier. Harvin wouldn't be able to pull any of that crap and he'd find himself in more conditioning tests then he'd want to be in. I love Shanny, but I would go so far as to say all the Vikings players don't respect Frazier. After all, he just helped that team get to the playoffs. Really, the only person who seems to have any problem with Frazier in a loud and public way is Harvin. Which tells me that he doesn't respect authority much at all, Shanahan, Frazier, Childress or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I love Shanny, but I would go so far as to say all the Vikings players don't respect Frazier. After all, he just helped that team get to the playoffs. Really, the only person who seems to have any problem with Frazier in a loud and public way is Harvin. Which tells me that he doesn't respect authority much at all, Shanahan, Frazier, Childress or otherwise. I never said all the Vikings, it was more in general that Shanahan has been a head coach alot longer than Frazier and he will demand more respect. Sorry for the confusion. I was saying that if a player "like" Harvin wanted to pull a Haynesworth or any other player in the NFL that wants to come her for that matter, they have another thing coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburmarshall Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Harvin would be a beast for us, but what do we have to get him? Besides, we are going to get Da'Rick Rogers in the 2nd rd., so we won't need him. Ha-ha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWinSkins83 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Harvin would be a beast for us, but what do we have to get him?Besides, we are going to get Da'Rick Rogers in the 2nd rd., so we won't need him. Ha-ha... Yeah I wish we could get Rogers. But he'll be going early 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethrodsp Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Harvin is a dynamic playmaker. Tue Redskins would be foolish not to sniff around a trade. All the malcontent talk misses the key point: the tone of a football team is set by the quarterback and head coach. I would bet that Harvin would not cause nearly as much trouble with RGIII and Shanahan leading the way. In Minnesota, he had Favre, who didn't respect Childress either, and Christian Ponder, who really has no credibility. It would be nice to think that all 20 something year old professional athletes had sparkling personalities, but its not the case. Typically, if you look at teams with credible quarterbacks and head coaches, malcontent players who are added to the equation are on their best behavior. Take Randy Moss as an example. A head case everywhere he's been, paired with Brady and Belichek, he was a dominant force and didn't rock the boat. No team is signing Harvin long-term without hedging their bets. The dynamic he could add to Shanahans offense is spectacular. If we can trade for him and get him signed for 4 or 5 years, I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 We just need to hold out for one more year and draft D'Anthony Thomas from Oregon next year. He was born to play in our offense. Black Jesus and Black Mamba in the same offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chess Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Yeah I wish we could get Rogers. But he'll be going early 2nd. Get Stedman Bailey... he would be a damn good pickup in this offense.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Get Stedman Bailey... he would be a damn good pickup in this offense.... Stedman Bailey, Markus Wheaton, Tavon Austin, Marquise Goodwin, Ace Sanders. There are some legit, game changing playmakers who are going to be in the second wrong, and almost all of them will be way less expensive and way less baggage. How did we go from "draft picks are currency and valuable" to "pfft, who needs those draft picks, who ever came out of the second round that was a good as Harvin?". The dude isn't Jerry Rice or Randy Moss or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayn Steebonz Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Looks like Percy Harvin's taking his team player reputation to the classy organization that is the Seahawks. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/minnesota-vikings-trade-percy-harvin-to-seattle-seahawks-for-draft-picks-031113 The Seahawks and Vikings have agreed to a trade that would send wide receiver Percy Harvin to Seattle for draft picks pending he passes a physical, FOXSports.com has learned.Harvin, who is entering the final year of his rookie deal, has been adamant about an extension, but the Vikings looked to cut bait on the premier talent. Seattle seemed like an ideal landing spot as Harvin has worked with Seahawks offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell, who coached Harvin in Minnesota during his rookie season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostaskins Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 rumor has it that the vikings might go after victor cruz and give up a 1st in doing so... that means the giants would have 2 1st's in this draft :X damn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Wilson and Harvin = a scary duo. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 rumor has it that the vikings might go after victor cruz and give up a 1st in doing so... that means the giants would have 2 1st's in this draft :X damn! I'd rather them have two 1's than keep Cruz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Wilson and Harvin = a scary duo.~Bang Harvin was made for the pistol read offense. This was a do or die move by the Seahawks and if Harvin can stay healthy, their offense is going to be impossible. That being said, they gave up a 1st rounder, a couple other picks and will have to give him a huge contract for a guy that is on the smaller side and gets hurt at least once a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzwiz Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Stedman Bailey, Markus Wheaton, Tavon Austin, Marquise Goodwin, Ace Sanders. There are some legit, game changing playmakers who are going to be in the second wrong, and almost all of them will be way less expensive and way less baggage. Steadman Bailey's skillset is completely different from the others you mention. Bailey is not as quick or dangerous after the catch. He's not slow, but I think he is more of a possession WR than a playmaker like the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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