Colin Cowherd: RG3 can't hold a candle to Andrew Luck

[WinSkins]

what colin "thinks" is really not very important to most everyone in the world so whay should we care?

[Laron Burgundy]

That same Green Bay team that got demolished by the Giants also demolished the 11-1 Texans team (at their place) that you say is gonna "throttle" the Colts. What one team did against other teams is irrelevant. As is how many pts they won or loss by.

And the reason why most people in the media aren't harping on the Colts schedule is because they probably realize the Colts were 2-14 last year. Generally, a team picking #1 in the draft isn't gonna have a terribly difficult schedule. And teams that are 2-14 generally don't make the playoffs the next season.

Nope, they ignore schedule for the most part, and concentrate on record, regardless of the situation because looking at strength of schedule requires more work.

Green Bay is also not the team you may think they are. They've put up over 31 points just once this season, and that was against those Texans. It was more of a fluke game for Green Bay than anything else, and those happen. It's why New Orleans has the one win over Atlanta, why Carolina beat us, or why Jacksonville has beaten anyone.

When Indy is more likely to get blown out by a playoff team than to have a competitive game, I have to believe that they aren't as good as their record. We were an awful team last year, and we had a close game against the Patriots and beat the Giants twice, were we really that good to play well against the two best teams in football? Hell no, we had some fluke games. So when Indy has one win against a winning team, and a bunch of wins against powderpuffs, I have to believe that quality win is a fluke, not something they can replicate on a week-to-week basis.

We'll both see who's more in the right in a couple weeks, but I have a feeling Houston is going to win by over 20 on them.

[NoCalMike]

Ok here is a fact. If RGIII was throwing an INT for nearly every TD pass he tossed, the 'Skins would be lucky to have more than a couple wins this season.

This is the main difference in my eyes. Andrew Luck is having a very good rookie campaign, and shows the signs of being great, but he is also afforded a lot more wiggle room on the field than RGIII. You can't ignore the bad, rookie-like stuff that Luck is doing on the field. Sure, he had 4 TD passes against the Lions, but he also had 3 INTs.

If RGIII threw 3 INTs last night against the Giants, it wouldn't matter if he had 5 TD passes, the 'Skins in all likelihood would still lose the game because the team around RGIII (namely, the defense) is not good enough to afford a rookie QB the luxury of playing like a rookie.

Make no mistake about it people, the only reason the 'Skins are in the position they are in, is because RGIII is not playing like a rookie, and I am not talking about statistics themselves. Not at all. I am talking about his decision making, lack of mistakes, ability to read defenses, ability to make the correct reads, ability to trick a defense etc etc etc......

If the coaches were simply having RGIII drop back 40 times a game to throw the ball all around the field, his stats would be much higher then they are, but that isn't what this offense is all about, and it is certainly not something required at this time of RGIII. Let a team dare to stop the rushing attack, then we will see.

If you want to make the argument that Luck's numbers are higher, as far as the measurement of pure VOLUME, then I can't disagree, it is a fact he has more passing yards, however compare RGIII & Luck when it comes to making mistakes, poor throws, bad reads, etc etc over the course of a game, and RGIII has been excelling where Luck has been good, for a rookie, but nothing that jumps out at you.

Let me re-iterate the biggest point of all here. If RGIII turned the ball over as much this season as Luck has, this team would have 2 wins at the most.

[Dallsux]

Can anyone tell me why Mr Colin Cowherd flat out won't give the Redskins any credit for anything. I just heard him on NY ESPN.....all he could say was that RG3 can't hold a candle to Andrew Luck.

I don't think any self-respecting Redskins fan should ever listen to him again. When Sean died, he all but said he had it comin'. As far as I'm concerned, Colin Coward's job is to piss everyone off & apparently, he has a huge following for it. He doesn't seem to have a whole lot of true knowledge of organized team sports, only what he's been told & read.

Turn him off & stop listening to this clown. He's an idiot. Turn the dial.

---------- Post added December-5th-2012 at 12:56 AM ----------

Hey! Skip Bayless is an idiot like Cowherd too! He must be wrong! Wrong wrong wrong

[Mr. Nostril]

What pisses me off about this isn't that CC is saying Luck is better than RG3. That's an arguable premise. What pisses me off is improper use of an idiom. One person who "can't hold a candle" to another person is so severely inferior that he's not even fit to be the latter person's apprentice. By any measure, RG3 and Andrew Luck both count as 2 of the greatest (and possibly the 2 greatest) rookie quarterbacks in NFL history, and no one can honestly say they know with certainty how either of their careers are going to play out long term. So, how can you say that one is not fit to be even an apprentice to the other.

I'm a totally biased fan, and I would never claim that Luck "can't hold a candle" to RG3. Why does Cowherd, as a supposedly unbiased member of the media, feel he can make this claim. CC probably has some reasonable basis for his statement, but his wording for it is incendiary in a decidedly stupid and calculated way (which I contend is also a good description of all the statements colin cowherd makes on a radio show).

[Bubble Screen]

Nostril: like many have said, he probably only said it to get a reaction (ratings). And it seems to be working. Someone hit it on the nail earlier when they compared him to Skip Bayless. They are one in the same. But at least Bayless has now shifted all his manlove from Tebow onto RG3. That alone makes him tolerable..

[bedlamVR]

No, what I was saying is that you can say he's had an easy schedule, but he's still proven he can beat a top flight team like the Packers. And you're excusing the game because the Packers started slow? Uh, what about the Saints? They started, what, 0-4? C'mon. You can't play just one side of the fence.

And as for the Colts have a good defense comment: the Colts were rated 24th going into the Monday night game, one spot below our very own Redskins.

You were wrong on that - and you have posted it a lot without actually checking - i mean the Colts defense have held their opponents to less than 20 points 6 times this season and won 5 of those games . We have held opponents to less than 20 points twice ...

If you are running out of excuses for why your boy Luck is turning the ball over so much try this one ... From ESPN ( I have not heard so much garbage in one paragraph)

A deeper look at Luck’s play tells a different story. His high interception total and low completions percentage can be largely explained by how far he is throwing the ball in the air. Luck’s average pass attempt travels 10.3 yards downfield, the longest in the league. This not only causes more interceptions, but also means his interceptions are less costly as they are picked off farther from the Colts’ end zone. And, of course, deeper throws lead to bigger plays for the offense when completed.

- So it is the distance the ball travels in the AIR is the indicator as to if the pass will be picked off or not - NOT poor decisions or forcing the ball into bad situations - but just How far the ball ball travels - AND hell who cares if it gets turned over if it travels 10 + yards then it is just the same as a punt - (a really short punt on 2nd down...:pfft:)

It is kind of telling on the kinds of opponents Luck is playing that they have not taken more advantage of the turnovers - The Patriots did though --

Luck is a good QB he is doing some great things on that Colts team and helping them win - but he has done things that against better opposition would have them on a loosing record .

RGIII is just doing more to help the Redskins win ....and he is not putting the team in bad positions to make winning more difficult than it needs to be ...

[Bubble Screen]

Dude, to my reccollection I only discussed the Skins and Colts defenses once. And I said I was mistakenly looking at each team's pass defense. So move along from that. Besides, the other poster made it out to be our defense was much worse than theirs. Clearly that's not the case.

And I'm not running out of excuses for anything: for any argument a Redskins fan can come up with why Griffin should win the award a Colts fan could do the same. As another poster stated, it will simply come down to which criteria the voters will go with. If they base it on the turnovers, then Griffin should win. If they base if off wins or passing yardage, Luck will win.

[NoCalMike]

That excuse for Luck's INTs being that "he throws the ball down the field more" is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. All that means, is that he is making poor decisions with the football. He is forcing the ball into coverage when there are probably guys open and plays to be made in other parts of the field. Just an incredibly dumb arguing point.

Also, when you talk about "throws the ball downfield" doesn't RGIII lead the NFL in TD passes over 30 yards? If not I am pretty sure he was leading going into this week. So that kind of destroys that arguing point as well.

Again, this isn't about Luck or RGIII being inferior to one another, it is more the fact that it seems anyone who favors Luck over RGIII has this arrogant "RGIII can't touch Luck" attitude about them.

[shoefly72]

Colin Cowherd is an ass hat. His whole schtick is taking hard line stances on subjects about which he has absolutely no clue. Skip Bayless is no different. Rick Reilly was on after the game last night trying to start the Luck-RG3 argument and has been all over Luck's jock all year. He wrote an absolutely ABYSMAL column earlier this year comparing the two.

It's amazing to me how all three of these guys cover sports for a living and yet a majority of the time are just woefully misinformed.

Reilley's main arguments are that our offense "babies" Griffin with a bunch of throws behind the LOS and that Luck has thrown for more yards and his team is 8-4 and he has a tremendous talent deficit.

As that ESPN Insider article proved, that first argument is a load of ****. If you want to knock Griffin for short quick throws, then you better knock Peyton, Rogers, Brees, Brady etc because they do it just as often and even more in some cases. A guy like Reilley or Cowherd coudln't tell you the first thing about why those throws are an important part of the offense's game plan to open up other things or adjust to what the defense is trying to stop. Again, Peyton and Brady do this ALL the time but somehow then it's seen as them making some brilliant check at the line of scrimmage whereas when Robert does it, it's us "babying" him. I wonder why none of those guys downplayed Luck for throwing a 2 yard dump off and letting Avery run untouched into the end zone to beat the Lions? They also probably have no idea that the entire concept of many of the packaged plays we run (if they even know what a packaged play is) relies upon Griffin making multiple reads and gives him quite a bit of options and decision making power. Jesus.

As for Luck having more passing yards, that's not as impressive as it sounds when you take into account his drastically higher interception rate and lower completion percentage. Vick was BLASTED for being so inaccurate when he was with the Falcons, and yet his completion % was usually around the same 55% mark that Luck has posted so far. He also never had a full year where his TD:INT ratio was as low as Luck's is this year, and on average had a higher passer rating than Luck does. So please tell me what part of this points to Luck being an all-world QB, much less a freaking MVP candidate as some would have you believe? Griffin's played a few quarters less due to his injury against the Falcons and only has 325 attempts to Luck's 503, so his yardage totals are obviously going to be less. Not to mention that we have the best running game in the league (God forbid a team actually run the ball to win games in this league anymore!) But in one of the most important stats for a QB, yards/attempt, Griffin beats Luck by a full yard at 8.18 to 7.15. Anything 8 or above is extremely good, especially for a rookie.

As far as the Colts' record, it's a good story that they are having an improbable run with Pagano battling Leukemia, and it's certainly cool to see. That being said, they haven't exactly faced murderer's row. They have some of the worst wins you'll ever see from a team that's 8-4:

CLE (4-8) W 17-13

TEN (4-8) W 19-13 -OT

MIA (5-7) W 23-20

BUF (5-7) W 20-13

DET (4-8) W 35-33

JAC (2-10) W 27-10

Their only solid wins are a 3 point win against the Vikings, a 3 point win over GB (this was a good win, I won't try and knock it), and a 17 point win against a TERRIBLE Jags team who beat them earlier in the season. If you go back and look at their games last year, they weren't getting blown off the field every game and they played a much tougher schedule. Obviously with Peyton they were 10-6 the year before, and going to his backups naturally led to a drop off. I'm not arguing that Luck isn't a good player, and he's certainly appreciably better than Curtis Painter.

I'd argue that Luck has had better support from his defense and more weapons on offense aside from us having Morris. Our #1 WR and best playmaker was their #2 WR from last year for goodness' sake; and we are 5-1 in games when he plays and 1-5 in games that he doesn't. A pretty good indicator that we aren't overflowing with playmakers at WR. Luck has a future HOF'er in Reggie Wayne, his favorite TE from college who was the best TE in the country, and the other TE in the argument for best in the country last year. Avery was a solid #3 with the Rams and posted comparable seasons to Josh Morgan; he isn't a scrub. And TY Hilton was one of the most dynamic playmakers in college football the past few years; just because these media clowns don't pay close enough attention to know who he is since he played at a crappy football school doesn't mean he wasn't a HELL of a playmaker. I was hoping we'd draft him to replace Moss eventually.

Compared to what RG3 has had to work with, I'd say it's a tossup at worst, but you'd be hard pressed to argue there is a significant advantage in talent for us. Garcon has only played in 6 games and hasn't been 100% in all of them. Morgan is a solid possession receiver. Aldrick is a speedster but has had some poor drops in limited chances. Moss is a good safety valve but can't stretch the defense like he used to or go over the middle. Hankerson has been decent. Davis is out for the season, and I'm pretty sure Niles Paul has more drops than receptions. Paulsen has good hands but is nowhere near the threat that Allen and Fleener are.

And yet we are scoring 26 ppg to 22 for the Colts. This with a run first offense that "babies" RG3 and limits our passing attempts. Don't forget they've played an OT game, and RG3 went out early against the Falcons or we likely would have scored a little more than we did with Cousins at the helm. They may have 8 wins, but they actually average a loss! Their average game is a 25-22 loss, while ours is a 26-25 win, much more what you'd expect given our 6-6 record. Their -41 point differential is by far the worst among any team with a winning record, in fact the Browns and Lions, at 4-8, have better point differentials than the Colts.

Bottom line, I still think Luck is and will be a good QB but arguing that he has been a more effective player than RG3 simply because his team has a better record is overlooking a MOUNTAIN of evidence to the contrary. Given that there are 53 players on a team and players only play on one side of the ball, there is only so much one player can do to affect the outcome of the game. RG3 can't play cornerback or safety. As such, the most you can ask a QB to do is produce points efficiently and avoid turning the ball over and giving scoring opportunities to the other offense. It is extremely hard for anyone to reason that Luck has been better in those areas than RG3 has. I have every confidence that if we switched defenses and schedules with the Colts, we are 9-3 or better with a few lopsided wins.

[Bubble Screen]

Wow. Great post. You should post more often.

[Ghost of]

shoefly puttin' work in. You need to go around to all the main football sites and post that.

[scruffylookin]

I don't really understand people who try and minimize what Griffin III is doing. Aren't these mostly the same people who before the draft and up to the season opener said that Griffin III will take more time to develop and that Luck was more pro ready?

So the fact that the Shanahans have built an offensive scheme that has taken advantage of Griffin III's skills at this point and he has excelled beyond anyone's expectations a good thing? To me, the fact that Griffin III has taken Luck's thunder and sparked the debate already in year one, a year that was clearly supposed to be one where Luck was the better of the two, a bad omen for those hellbent on trying to slurp Luck?

Remember, the ceiling was and is always higher with Robert.

To me this Luck vs RG3 thing is stupid. The story for me is just how good young quarterbacks are now coming into the NFL. Newton, Dalton, Locker, Luck, RG3, Tannehill, Weedon, and Wilson. 8 QBs taken in the last year, a 1/4 of the league, and all have performed very well given their team around them.

Compare them to the vaunted 83 class or the 99 class and clearly times have changed. You can now expect strong play at the QB position from day one.

[Burgold]

Using the simplest method of calculation... how many weeks has RGIII won player of the week or rookie of the week for being the most dynamic and important player in the NFL? How many times has he won rookie of the month?

Okay, compare that to Luck. How many games did he personally take over in such a way that everyone had to take notice and the NFL or major outlets awarded him for it?

Right now, Luck is leading in completions, yards, and wins. Wins are very important. RGIII is leading in completion percentage, touchdowns, quarterback rating, QBR, and NFL/Media Awards. He's also obviously leading in rushing yards.

Winning matters most, but other than that the TD/INT is the thing I care most about. Giveaways are killers. Scoring matters.

[LD0506]

It's a question of bias, over and over again. If you start off from "I'm going to slam the Skins" you can and will find something negative to say, but then you're really not offering an opinion, yanno? With all the media attention Griffin has been getting there has been a certain element that has been critical just to be critical, there's no objective reality in a lot of it.

For example, like many others I was trying to watch everything yesterday morning after the win, virtually back-to-back I heard Jamie Dukes making some (hopefully) tongue-in-cheek comments about Griffin coming to the postgame presser still in his uniform and how the rook needs to learn to style it up in front of the camera, while at the same time Brian Mitchell, a guy that never pulls a punch he doesn't want to, lauding Griffin for the exact same thing because it showed Rob's awareness that it was late and the media had deadlines to meet, instead of making them wait while he changed he came right out and let them get what they needed to do their jobs.

Yeah, a small point in the grand scheme of things but just telling about the perspectives involved and how they can determine the spin an item receives.

[KingGibbs]

Take a step back. Take a deep breath and enjoy OUR amazing QB. Sticks and stones folks.

[RandyHolt]

Colon Cowturd sounds like a blow hard. And there was no need for him to bring Jason Campbell into it.

If you had the first pick overall with the current resumes at your full review, would the overwhelming majority still take Luck?

Before the draft, I had pretty much talked myself into preferring RG3 more. I grow more certain with every single read option skinny post.

And it's great to see his love of the game by wearing the pads to the press conference.

[BobGriffin]

Cowherd is right. RG3 can't hold a candle to Luck... that's because Luck is too busy on the field throwing interceptions.

[Going Commando]

Great post shoefly.

You make a good point about Luck's SOS being weak. I like how he's getting credit for his team's record despite the fact they have played a creampuff schedule and our schedule has been brutal this year. 5 of our first 8 games on the road. We went into NO and beat them when they had been invincible there. People act like the Colts are bereft of talent despite the fact so many of the players are holdovers from a SB appearance and were constant division winners that had one disastrous season sandwiched in there.

But aside from all that, any of these sports personalities who seriously argue for Luck being better than RGIII need to have any awards voting privileges they might have stripped. This should be a good litmus test of which media figures are football literate. It's a no contest if you've been paying attention at all. Who cares if Luck has been putting up bigger volume stats? Those people must think Drew Bledsoe was one of the best ever.

Luck hasn't even been the second best rookie QB this season. Russell Wilson has.

I don't even have a problem with Luck. I actually really like his potential and I love the way he plays the game. I love how he comports himself off the field. I just can't stand his moronic/polemicist/illiterate/butthurt supporters who try and deny the simple truth about him and RGIII by coming up with these awful arguments. It degrades the whole discourse. There should be some responsibility towards the truth.

[kleese]

I don't really like CC, but I enjoy his show. He is good at what he does. He isn't lazy like many of his counterparts... He does research and is prepared each show with specific talking points..., and he isn't afraid to say unpopular things (like there is more fan violence at NFL games rather than college due to the disparity in education in the crowds). I absolutely do not always agree with him and sometimes I find takes to be absurd. And personally, he seems like a prick. But he is good at what he does and there is a reason he is ESPN's most popular host.

And I will tip my cap to his picks this year... He picks 5 games per week against the spread and has been 3-2 or better for 12 straight weeks which is incredible. I think he is like 40-16 on the year or something unreal like that. Like I said, hate him all you want, but he's not a hack... Hacks are unprepared.

He has been a Luck guy all along.... I don't have a problem with anyone who thinks Luck is ROY or if they think he will be better longterm than RG3. My problem with CC is that his reasoning is a little flawed. While I do think RG3 is asked to do less in the passing game than Luck, I also think Robert has had a much tougher schedule and has dealt with major injuries to key weapons. Take Reggie Wayne away from Luck for 9 weeks and his season might look a littl different right now. And CC keeps saying the Redskins have a much better defense, which just isn't true.

I don't have a problem with his take overall, he is just a bit too hard line about it all for me.

If I had a vote I would be totally on the fence on who to cast it for for ROY... They are both amazing. I would probably flip a coin and say RG3. I you asked me who will be better in 10 years, I'd flip a coin and say Luck.

Saying Luck is better than RG3 is not "hating." It is a completely legit argument. I just want people to have their facts straight.

[Prototype]

Honestly, i could give less of a **** what other people think about our QB. We watch the games. We know how good he is.

Ask any Redskins fan who would they rather have, RG3 or Luck, and I gauarantee you we will all say RG3 10/10 times.

[Going Commando]

Using the simplest method of calculation... how many weeks has RGIII won player of the week or rookie of the week for being the most dynamic and important player in the NFL? How many times has he won rookie of the month?

Okay, compare that to Luck. How many games did he personally take over in such a way that everyone had to take notice and the NFL or major outlets awarded him for it?

Right now, Luck is leading in completions, yards, and wins. Wins are very important. RGIII is leading in completion percentage, touchdowns, quarterback rating, QBR, and NFL/Media Awards. He's also obviously leading in rushing yards.

Winning matters most, but other than that the TD/INT is the thing I care most about. Giveaways are killers. Scoring matters.

Winning is a team stat. Luck is a part of it, it's important. But if that's one's most important barometer of individual ability, then one would have thought Alex Smith was one of the best QBs in the league last year, in which case one would have been football illiterate. The guy just got benched the first semi-legit opportunity Harbaugh could do so. Is that happening to Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, or Tom Brady ever? Hell, would that even happen to Phil Rivers?

Also, not all wins are created equal. The Colts have played an easy schedule plain and simple. The Falcons are 11-1 despite the fact they are wholly beatable and are probably going to lose early in the playoffs to superior teams because they've played a comically easy schedule (.389). But if you go by just wins you'd think they are perhaps the best team in the NFL and Matt Ryan should be a slam dunk for the MVP.

[sonsofwashington]

For so many reasons I don't really take anyone seriously that picks between the two. They both are perfect fits for their organizations and it shows. Personally, I am glad to have RGIII because he is more exciting to watch. The success of both candidates will only be measured in championships. Period. The rest does not matter at all.

With all of that said I still like listening to the Heard. Those radio hosts are forced to have too many opinions to be right or agree with me all the time. Unfortunately, it makes them wrong a lot which results in them appearing foolish. It's their job to call out athletes and it's our job to call them out so when they are wrong (and Colin is very wrong about RGIII right!?) it gives us fan's a great opportunity to rub it in their face. So really we should look at this as an opportunity to rub some "told ya so" back at Colin. RGIII makes people look silly with regularity and the probability increases shortly after he declares "hike". So let Colin underestimate RGIII, the regret will be memorable.

[jnhay]

I love it when people announce things like "X QB has more progressions that he has to go through than Y QB" as if it is a fact. As if he/she has a copy of the playbook for each team and is privy to the game planning prior to and play calling during the games. Tools.

And really, who cares if it's true? Luck has to use the tools he has while RGIII uses his. Luck wouldn't be able to run the pistol offense as well as RGIII and wouldn't have that luxury of making those simple reads at times. Those simple reads stem from the play itself, and the play itself is only effective because the quarterback is a supreme threat as a runner. It's like saying Barry Sanders was better than Jim Brown because he had to dance around a lot more to get yards while Brown "made the easy read" and ran straight up the middle.

[clskinsfan]

Honestly' date=' i could give less of a **** what other people think about our QB. We watch the games. We know how good he is.

Ask any Redskins fan who would they rather have, RG3 or Luck, and I gauarantee you we will all say RG3 10/10 times.[/quote']

Both are incredible. But I would probably take Luck. RG3 is the more exciting player for sure. The only reason I would take Luck is that Luck takes far fewer hits and most likely will have a less injury filled career. I know there is no guarantee of this (Luck could get hurt today in practice). But you can only take getting blown up by linebackers so many times. RG3 has made an effort to limit the number of hits. But he still gets smashed a couple of times a game and was already injured once this year.