Colin Cowherd: RG3 can't hold a candle to Andrew Luck

[FanboyOf91]

He doesn't like The Dougie' date=' because black people do it.

He doesn't like tattoos, because black peope get them.

He doesn't like black people, because they are black.

What do I win?[/quote']

Don't forget he pissed on Sean Taylor's body while it was still warm.

[mojo]

I'm really not trying to race bait. But tons of folks have straight up said "RG3 will be another Vick, another bust who ends up out of the league in 5 years." No one ever compares him to how great he can be ala Steve Young, but rather just another black QB who hasn't lived up to expectations.

You're wrong. In fact, I specifically heard Cowherd say RG3 is in the Steve Young category due to his upbringing, smarts, etc.

[Saqs]

I'm really not trying to race bait. But tons of folks have straight up said "RG3 will be another Vick, another bust who ends up out of the league in 5 years." No one ever compares him to how great he can be ala Steve Young, but rather just another black QB who hasn't lived up to expectations.

This is somewhat true and you hear it implied in plenty of arguments. The whole not "traditional/conventional QB" nonsense that you hear folk like Mark Schlereth spew. The kid has shown he can throw the ball and be as accurate as any other QB in the league yet he's still knocked for not throwing the ball around 40-50 times per game and for his ability to run (aka he takes too many hits).

[mojo]

He doesn't like The Dougie' date=' because black people do it.

He doesn't like tattoos, because black peope get them.

He doesn't like black people, because they are black.

What do I win?[/quote']

Tattoos and a stupid dance are only for black people? Are u sure you're not racist?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Don't forget he pissed on Sean Taylor's body while it was still warm.

I think the most bizarre thing he ever came up with is that black players don't like being disciplined by Roger Goodell because so many of them grew up without fathers.

I actually don't know if Cowherd is a "racist." However, he is certainly, a race-baiter, And that actually may be worse. At least a racist has his convictions. Cowherd picks at a scab because it gets him ratings.

---------- Post added December-5th-2012 at 12:07 PM ----------

Tattoos and a stupid dance are only for black people? Are u sure you're not racist?

Cowherd thinks that. Not me.

[greenspandan]

I'm really not trying to race bait. But tons of folks have straight up said "RG3 will be another Vick, another bust who ends up out of the league in 5 years." No one ever compares him to how great he can be ala Steve Young, but rather just another black QB who hasn't lived up to expectations.

i agree with this, but i think it's diminishing as more people get to witness him play and see what a great decisionmaker he is and how solid he is purely at passing.

[Ghost of]

I think the race angle is ridiculous. Let's not go down that road simply because a radio guy likes Luck better. I'm as big of a supporter as rg3 as anyone but I also realize Luck is a great QB as well. They do run different systems and like Gruden said on Mon night, both are suited well to them.

Bull****. Luck is throwing for under 60 pct completion percentage. That's a decent number in 1985 but not 2012, even for a rookie. His turnovers, some of his poor decisions, etc. all weigh against him and I think it is VERY interesting that someone with his statistics, which are mediocre overall (at best) is in the conversation against two...other...qbs who have far better numbers. RWilson's stats vs. common opponents are VASTLY superior to Luck's.

This discussion isn't happening if the roles were reversed. BTW, I'm not just talking Cowherd. The overall discussion clearly reflects the bias.

Look, it's not that anyone "hates" anyone, but there are biases in this discussion. Again, we're not talkin 70 vs. 65 pct compl and 3 to 1 vs. 2.5 to 1 TD/int.

It's a HUGE gulf between the two, other than Luck through sheer dint of passing it all the damn time has more attempts and yards.

[mojo]

I think the most bizarre thing he ever came up with is that black players don't like being disciplined by Roger Goodell because so many of them grew up without fathers.

I actually don't know if Cowherd is a "racist." However' date=' he is certainly, a race-baiter, And that actually may be worse. At least a racist has his convictions. Cowherd picks at a scab because it gets him ratings.

---------- Post added December-5th-2012 at 12:07 PM ----------

Cowherd thinks that. Not me.

Ratings..exactly. I agree he tends to have a somewhat controversial opinion to get people talking. And it works so I find it hard to fault him, it's his job.

And regarding the black/father topic. I can see how that could hit a nerve. But how is that different from complementing RG3 for having such a level head on his shoulders to his stable family and military upbringing? Which is something I've heard Cowherd mention as well.

[Ghost of]

You really have nothing to back up the treatment of RGIII as racist, he is on just about every commercial and is talked about glowingly. He is admired for his attitude and work ethic, something race baiters always alluded to in the past. I really think you should drop this line or come with some hard evidence backing it up.

Yes, PEOPLE WHO LIKE HIM think that. The fact is, the statistical gap is so large that the fact anyone is still claiming Luck is better NOW (later, sure maybe) is a very, VERY odd thing. I'm TELLING YOU that were the stats reversed, we're not having these dsicussions.

Also, check the fan boards..."Vick 2," "running QB" "****y" "flashy." Hell, I've even heard Vince Young brought into it. And the "people figured out Cam newton" angle, they'll figure him out.

Did they figure out Steve Young?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The thing that annoys the HELL out of me is that people are dismissing RG3 because we use the pistol.

Well, in 5 years when we've been ridiculously successful and half the teams in the league are attempting to implement this type of offense, those dismissals will stop. The spread is as college as it comes and didn't gain much respect in the NFL until Brady spent a few years shredding defenses with it. We run the same plays (as you mentioned) from the pistol, so I don't see how it is gimmicky or even has a shelf life. It's no different than shotgun, other than the fact that you can run more from the pistol.

[Ghost of]

Another thing, if anyone knows my history, they know I don't just throw out the racial angle. In this case, I can't really see what else is going on....I mean if for some reason Russell Wilson went #1 and RG3# but RW had Luck's stats, no one would be saying he was playing better.

[Pick6]

I don't like either of them. I was just pointing out that it's basically been RG3 talk nonstop today on their show. It's so great how the Redskins are so relevant now. However, I do kind of wish Morris would get more love. A large part of Griffin's success is owed to Morris. I love that RG3 says Morris would get his vote for ROY.

Give RG3 the MVP and give Morris the ROY. Works for me.

[SWFLSkins]

Colin Cowherd hates black people.

Prove that. Seriously, either stop that line or prove it to be.

---------- Post added December-5th-2012 at 11:44 AM ----------

He doesn't like The Dougie' date=' because black people do it.

He doesn't like tattoos, because black peope get them.

He doesn't like black people, because they are black.

What do I win?[/quote']

A one jump leap to conclusion all expenses paid.

And I can read that yes he probably is a race baiter, but we are better than that aren't we. After all we have the SBMVP Doug Williams to stand behind.

[Brischke]

Offering my Baylor perspective here. I experienced the same emotions last year as this year in Luck to RG3 comparisons. The only difference is RG3 was not nearly as well known at the very beginning of last football season, as he was by the end. It took months for people to come around on RG3, and the way people eventually came around is that they couldn't ignore Robert anymore. People were extremely ignorant about Robert, and for sure applied stereotypes. 1 of 2 draft experts on the mothership ESPN, Todd McShay, actually called Robert a WR on the next level. That is pure ignorance and could only be concluded by someone applying a stereotype and not actually watching Robert play.

The biggest "Heisman moment" came when Robert and Baylor knocked off Oklahoma on national TV. OU was #5 in the country, and hoping to possibly sneak back into the national title picture. Luck was at Stanford and Stanford had the better record than Baylor (same as Colts better record than Skins), but people couldn't ignore what they saw with their own eyes any longer.

For RG3 to convince some of the people like Cowherd, I think it's just going to take more "moments" that they simply can't ignore. I know there have been a ton of them already, but it will probably take Robert doing something big and the team really making a serious run for a playoff spot these last few weeks. I know they are primed for that, so we'll see how it plays out. For about 3 years, the Cowherd types have been conditioned that Luck and only Luck is the greatest QB prospect in 30 years. Suddenly Robert came along last year and upset that apple cart, and it became a 2 man show instead of 1 man. It's still taking these people time to accept that.

[DogofWar1]

Bull****. Luck is throwing for under 60 pct completion percentage. That's a decent number in 1985 but not 2012, even for a rookie. His turnovers, some of his poor decisions, etc. all weigh against him and I think it is VERY interesting that someone with his statistics, which are mediocre overall (at best) is in the conversation against two...other...qbs who have far better numbers. RWilson's stats vs. common opponents are VASTLY superior to Luck's.

This discussion isn't happening if the roles were reversed. BTW, I'm not just talking Cowherd. The overall discussion clearly reflects the bias.

Look, it's not that anyone "hates" anyone, but there are biases in this discussion. Again, we're not talkin 70 vs. 65 pct compl and 3 to 1 vs. 2.5 to 1 TD/int.

It's a HUGE gulf between the two, other than Luck through sheer dint of passing it all the damn time has more attempts and yards.

I won't comment on the race discussion going on in this thread, but in terms of stats you've hit the nail squarely on the head. Luck has more yards, and his team has a couple more wins, and that's it. He's winning, but he personally is playing near the bottom of the league in terms of efficiency. Meanwhile RGIII is playing better than a bunch of franchise QBs (Cutler, Stafford, Eli) and is right up there with the elite QBs in the league in terms of efficiency.

Luck is gaudy, and has the benefit of a half way decent defense (and a comparatively easy schedule), but that is it.

Well, in 5 years when we've been ridiculously successful and half the teams in the league are attempting to implement this type of offense, those dismissals will stop. The spread is as college as it comes and didn't gain much respect in the NFL until Brady spent a few years shredding defenses with it. We run the same plays (as you mentioned) from the pistol, so I don't see how it is gimmicky or even has a shelf life. It's no different than shotgun, other than the fact that you can run more from the pistol.

Didn't the Giants recently run a couple plays out of the pistol a couple weeks ago? Currently wikipedia has something like 8 NFL teams that have incorporated the pistol, I expect that number to jump drastically over the next 5 years.

[GO HAMSKINS]

I've watch all of AL game he's very overated. He basically looks like Rex Grossman no joke. He makes some good throws and plays then he makes bad play. I wonder how many PICK 6's he has thrown already? Luck is a beast! Luck is also lucky. AL highlights never shows Hilton returning punts down to the ten yard line and Luck throws a td pass. Luck is right up there with him but RGIII is better right now just based on the eye test

[IrepDC]

I've watch all of AL game he's very overated. He basically looks like Rex Grossman no joke. He makes some good throws and plays then he makes bad play. I wonder how many PICK 6's he has thrown already? Luck is a beast! Luck is also lucky. AL highlights never shows Hilton returning punts down to the ten yard line and Luck throws a td pass. Luck is right up there with him but RGIII is better right now just based on the eye test

Sometimes there will be someone running open underneath, usually Wayne, and Luck will say "**** it I'm going deep" ala Grossman and throw into coverage down field. I've seen him do it a few times and thought to myself, "He just pulled a Grossman." He's much more clutch than Grossman already in his career, though.

[ZoEd]

To all the ****coes and Cowturds who keep hating on RG3; check this comparison out.

So RG3 isn't a "real QB" and will have to start being a pocket passer to be successful. Well, lets compare!

Eli Manning, two SB's and please, whatever you do, don't forget it! I mean, if I had to hear Gruden talk about "the defending champions" and the steel in Eli's veins one more time I was going to freaking punch him in the face through my tv! So, for the sake of argument, let's say Eli is a "real QB".

Total yards:

E. Manning, 3170

RG3, 3376

Touchdowns:

E. Manning, 16

RG3, 23

INT's:

E. Manning, 11

RG3, 4

So my question is this; does it matter if the QB is a "real" QB or not? I mean, if the fake QB is putting more points on the board, passing and rushing, why does it matter if he's a prototypical QB?

Bottom line, RG3 isn't taking chances away from other players to score, ala Cam Newton and the old M. Vick. RG3 is spreading the ball around, making all the throws and at the top of the league in almost all QB categories. How is he not a "real" QB?

Suckaz, hating just to hate!

[skinsfan07]

Yes, PEOPLE WHO LIKE HIM think that. The fact is, the statistical gap is so large that the fact anyone is still claiming Luck is better NOW (later, sure maybe) is a very, VERY odd thing. I'm TELLING YOU that were the stats reversed, we're not having these dsicussions.

Also, check the fan boards..."Vick 2," "running QB" "****y" "flashy." Hell, I've even heard Vince Young brought into it. And the "people figured out Cam newton" angle, they'll figure him out.

Did they figure out Steve Young?

Exactly my point. Had the roles been reversed, Luck would be getting praise like a KING for his "versatile, innovative style."

[pjfootballer]

Bottom line, I still think Luck is and will be a good QB but arguing that he has been a more effective player than RG3 simply because his team has a better record is overlooking a MOUNTAIN of evidence to the contrary. Given that there are 53 players on a team and players only play on one side of the ball, there is only so much one player can do to affect the outcome of the game. RG3 can't play cornerback or safety. As such, the most you can ask a QB to do is produce points efficiently and avoid turning the ball over and giving scoring opportunities to the other offense. It is extremely hard for anyone to reason that Luck has been better in those areas than RG3 has. I have every confidence that if we switched defenses and schedules with the Colts, we are 9-3 or better with a few lopsided wins.

So hard to argue against this. Brilliant.

[GO HAMSKINS]

Sometimes there will be someone running open underneath, usually Wayne, and Luck will say "**** it I'm going deep" ala Grossman and throw into coverage down field. I've seen him do it a few times and thought to myself, "He just pulled a Grossman." He's much more clutch than Grossman already in his career, though.

Yes,he's clearly a much better QB than Rexy.. But Alot of people haven't watch Luck games,they watch highlights. Luck at times reminds me of him no lie.

[pjfootballer]

For about 3 years, the Cowherd types have been conditioned that Luck and only Luck is the greatest QB prospect in 30 years. Suddenly Robert came along last year and upset that apple cart, and it became a 2 man show instead of 1 man. It's still taking these people time to accept that.

Great perspective Brischke. I believe this is true.

[mistertim]

Didn't the Giants recently run a couple plays out of the pistol a couple weeks ago? Currently wikipedia has something like 8 NFL teams that have incorporated the pistol, I expect that number to jump drastically over the next 5 years.

Other teams may use more pistol formation but I don't see the read option aspect of it becoming a major paradigm for the NFL, and that isn't because it will get "figured out" or is easy to defend against. It is very hard to defend against when done effectively. However, I think to run it with consistent success in the NFL you really have to have a QB who is an elite athlete in addition to being a top tier passer. RG3 is pretty much a unique specimen in that regard: the speed of a Vick to go along with the accuracy of a Rodgers or Brees. It is just deadly and almost impossible to defend against even though you know its coming.

Defenders are just too good and too fast in the pro game for anything but a guy with the skillset of Griffin to pull off the read option with any regularity. Tebow was ok at it because he was smart and a tough runner, though not all that fast. But he sucked as a passer and was almost no threat there so that negated a big part of the option. In college he could get away with being a mediocre passer while still being successful at the option but in the pros it made him almost obsolete.

Other teams may try to incorporate the occasional read option concept more in the future but without a guy with the skillset to execute it regularly I think it will still be more of a wrinkle than a staple of offenses.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

By the way....no one outside of a few trolls are making any kind of negative argument towards RGIII. I mean, if you want to pretend that there are a lot of "haters" out there (which is required by federal statute in 2012, I should add) go ahead. But you are being delusional.

There is a legitimate argument as to who is going to have a better long-term career, I believe. Mainly because - Jesus, Mary, and Joseph - does RGIII take a beating. But they are both going to be awesome.

I suck at the Internet.

[#BgMase76#]

I listen to him every once and a while. Too much of him and I get nauseous. Sometimes he's realistic but more often than not he's looking for headlines. He's a big Romo sits to pee supporter. He's always on the star studded bandwagon. Doesn't bother me, it just shows his star is on the rise.