If Shanahan's given up, what hope do we really have with him? A pretty darn disappointed and disillusioned long time backer of the HC.

[Chachie]

He's 2 weeks too late, the season was over after that Cruz bomb.

Totally agree.

[Voice_of_Reason]

So this bothered me all through dinner. It really sounded as though Shanahan has given up. Like he was expecting the team to play well, they didn't, and instead of a steely resolve, he has just thrown his hands in the air and said, well, I don't know what to do.

Even if that's true, you can't say it. What you HAVE to say, and actually probably have to believe is something like this:

"I'm very disappointed in the performance of this team. It's my fault, I didn't prepare the team. I'm going to work extra hard to make sure that we are prepared and ready to play the Eagles in 2 weeks. Everything is going to be evaluated, from how I approach the practices, to the coaches on the team, to the players. We were probably going to lose a game somewhere down the road. I believe that we can still play at a high level, and it's my responsibility to figure out why we are not, and how to solve that. Every option is on the table."

Question: "Coach, you said this was a must win game. You lost ..."

Answer: "Yes. We lost. It puts us in a very bad position for the playoffs this year, but we're not out of it. We're going to get back to work, and we're going to figure out how to beat the Eagles. That's the only thing we can control at this time. We're going to try and get a few guys healthy, we're going to look at the scheme, the players, and ourselves as coaches, and we're going to find a way to be competitive against a division rival."

That's how you answer the questions. I know that it's hard after a tough loss. I don't care. You're getting paid 7 mil a year, and your team is in complete shambles, your defense can't stop anybody and the offense is regressing, and it looks like you're losing the team. You look like a putz already. So at least get the freaking sound bite right.

I'm so furious I could throw something.

EDIT: A couple of other thoughts:

1. I really believe that the Giants loss has actually caused the team sleepwalk through 2 additional games. They haven't gotten over the Cruz play. The coaches are coaching scared, and players are playing scared. It took the wind out of the entire season.

2. Firing Haz probably won't solve anything. But, it might just have to be done, change for the sake of change. The 98 yard drive was too easy. They came up big a few times today, but really, they've been bad all season.

3. What makes this EVEN WORSE is that the Eagles and Cowboys are a mess. And the Giants are not THAT good. If this team could just be competitive, this is another year when 8-8, 9-7 could win the division. It's just so frustrating to have such a bad team when the other teams in the division seem to want to implode. Now, we've joined the group of teams imploding. MADDENING.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

To be fair, RGIII has struggled with his deep ball accuracy. Losing Davis has really slowed our offense. Surprised people aren't talking about it more.

I don't know about that, but he was uncharacteristically inaccurate on most of his throws today.

But he was due one.

---------- Post added November-4th-2012 at 09:18 PM ----------

..... I'm so furious I could throw something.

I hear that bro', but I don't know if it's anger or more so disappointment I've felt since he came out with that right after the game.

It was the first time I've really had doubts about him being the guy. There's been questions, but my faith in him has never wavered when it's had more than enough cause to.

The comments earlier were the first signs to me of the house starting to crumble.

Hail.

[Mursilis]

So you fire Shanahan, and to build upon our bubble-gum and duct-tape top 10 offense, you hire...? I'm just going to ask this question of everyone who's screaming to fire everyone.

I'll tell you who you hire - ANYBODY. Because with random Coach X, there's at least some hope this team will one day finish above .500, and maybe even win a playoff game or two. Joe Gibbs was an unknown coach once - maybe we get lucky again. With Mike Shanahan, I have absolutely ZERO faith this team will ever be consistently good. The guy's just here to cash a big fat $7M annual check. There's absolutely no objective evidence that he'll ever turn this team into a serious contender. If you're still on the Shanahan bandwagon at this point, you must like losing.

[skinpride1]

What about all the players we have lost to injury on a team that was already thin of talent??? Not defending Shanny but that has hurt badly. I think what you seen at the presser was a man who knows he is screwed this year. Hard to defend some of Shannys moves like jim hasslet for one or all the flags thrown at us by refs or Shanny not turning stuff in to the league when the refs screw us,,,even gibbs knew what to do to fix those problemsand he had been out the league for years.

I think we are better off sticking to a system and keep on building the only move I would make for 2013 is fire Hasslett his defense is more the reason the skins are 3 and 6.

[authentic]

i may need another day or so to process everything that is going on right now. Because honestly, i don't know where i stand on the issue.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

i may need another day or so to process everything that is going on right now. Because honestly, i don't know where i stand on the issue.

I've no doubt it will get spun into a 'heat of the moment' thing in the next couple of days.

But it still doesn't excuse it.

Hail.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I hear that bro', but I don't know if it's anger or more so disappointment I've felt since he came out with that right after the game.

It was the first time I've really had doubts about him being the guy. There's been questions, but my faith in him has never wavered when it's had more than enough cause to.

The comments earlier were the first signs to me of the house starting to crumble.

Hail.

And to top it off, I just read RGIII's comments. Which were 100% spot on and the right thing to say. So, a 22 year old kid, who got the stuffing kicked out of him could figure out how to talk to the media, and the experienced 2 time super bowl winning coach could not.

Honestly, I never thought I would say this, but I think that Dan Snyder now NEEDS to get involved. Not in football decisions, but I think he needs to sit Shanahan down, and have a heart to heart. Figure out what's really going on. Ultimately, Shanahan reports only to Snyder. Shanahan and Allen can sit and talk, but ultimately, Allen can be a sounding board and nothing more. Snyder, on the other hand, is the owner of the team and the ultimate boss. I think he has an obligation to his team to be a bit of a shrink. But NOT give Shanahan football advice, or demand he fire coaches, or anything like that.

I heard that after Gibbs made his 2 time out oopsie, Snyder was there to support him, and help him. They came back from that, won 4 games and got into the playoffs. Not saying that is going to happen again, but it might be time for Snyder to say SOMETHING to Shanahan behind closed doors. And I also hope that we never hear about it.

Because this **** is just not acceptable. Not from a head coach. Not when you're mathematically only 1.5 games back of second place in the division and 3 back from the leader, with 8 to play. I mean, come on.

I'm just getting angrier, so I'm going to go watch some competitive cooking show.

[authentic]

I've no doubt it will get spun into a 'heat of the moment' thing in the next couple of days.

But it still doesn't excuse it.

Hail.

not just that. i'm talking about on the large scale. I'm stuck between whether we should keep shanny or let him go at the end of the season. There are pros and cons to doing both. and i don't know what to make about how i'm feeling about the situation. I'm sort of at a cross roads.

[RandyHolt]

Mike is trying to win with his schemes. The ZBS, moving to a 3-4. Haslet and Kyle at his side. Its not working and he is giving up, it would appear. He is a fool to do so, so early in the year. Its easy for me to see, he needs RG3 to win games for him.

His schemes are probably outdated. Haslet is certainly solved by the league. No one is accountable, no one loses their jobs. We dont really adapt to what is clear, RG3 needs to be trusted to win for us.

Deferring is also failing. He needs to accept the toss and get RG3 out onto the field, at the first chance.

[authentic]

And to top it off, I just read RGIII's comments. Which were 100% spot on and the right thing to say. So, a 22 year old kid, who got the stuffing kicked out of him could figure out how to talk to the media, and the experienced 2 time super bowl winning coach could not.

Honestly, I never thought I would say this, but I think that Dan Snyder now NEEDS to get involved. Not in football decisions, but I think he needs to sit Shanahan down, and have a heart to heart. Figure out what's really going on. Ultimately, Shanahan reports only to Snyder. Shanahan and Allen can sit and talk, but ultimately, Allen can be a sounding board and nothing more. Snyder, on the other hand, is the owner of the team and the ultimate boss. I think he has an obligation to his team to be a bit of a shrink. But NOT give Shanahan football advice, or demand he fire coaches, or anything like that.

I heard that after Gibbs made his 2 time out oopsie, Snyder was there to support him, and help him. They came back from that, won 4 games and got into the playoffs. Not saying that is going to happen again, but it might be time for Snyder to say SOMETHING to Shanahan behind closed doors. And I also hope that we never hear about it.

Because this **** is just not acceptable. Not from a head coach. Not when you're mathematically only 1.5 games back of second place in the division and 3 back from the leader, with 8 to play. I mean, come on.

I'm just getting angrier, so I'm going to go watch some competitive cooking show.

for the first time, i'm really starting to question whether Shanny really wants to coach and see this project through. Dude is 60, already has his rings, made a boat load of money.. I wonder if, in his mind, is it all worth it to him.... Man, IDK..

[I_Bleed_B&G]

I will forgive Shanny if we hear tomorrow that he has fired Haslett

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I will forgive Shanny if we hear tomorrow that he has fired Haslett

That's a double edged sword.

He hand-picked Haslett. He's stuck by him for two and a half years in the face of all logical reasoning.

And we then trust him to pick Haslett's successor as he's the GM.

Color me worried as to what we'd end up with.

Hail.

[Bangee7]

I got to watch some of the calamity that was today's game. I've been pretty pro-Shanny, but even my jaded eyes cannot escape the obvious....this team is in disarray.

I haven't felt this bleak since Marty's first 5 games. Sure there are some bright spots, but with limited cap, limited top picks, I just can't see how this gets much better any time soon.

I've been holding out hope that with superior coaching, some of the youngsters would be coached up by now. It is evident that is not happening to any degree.

And what really gets me is the PENALTIES. Shanny above all else knows this is a killer and yet every week, they keep happening....over & over & over.

(And don't give me the old..."the refs hate us bit"- if it's close, the Ref's are gonna call it...you get that, I get that, why don't the players "get that"?)

With Shanahan's pedigree, I am still in shock that this team can look this bad, halfway through- especially at Home.

And today's presser, well, that was pathetic.

3 years in, "same 'ol Redskins" - gosh, that's tough to swallow!

[Koolblue13]

Did we win? I had to turn it off at the end of the first and go to work.

[stevelabny]

This is why the season isn't over:

Right now, the Seahawks are the 6th playoff team at 5-4. The Skins are only 2 games back with 7 games to play. I know the Seahawks schedule looks easy, but is anyone convinced the Seahawks are a good team?

Other 4 loss teams? The Vikings, who the Skins already own a tiebreaker against and have 4 games left against the Bears/Packers and one with the Lions. The Lions who have 3 games with Bears/Packers and one with the Vikings. The Bucs, who you already own a tiebreaker against and have two games against the Falcons. And possibly the Cowboys and Eagles, who still play twice and can therefore catch up to with no help.

Heck, even the Giants have the Falcons and Packers on their schedule...

3-6 sounds horrible until you realize the only "help" you need to make the playoffs is one Giants loss or 2 seahawks losses at least one of which is a conf game.

I'll tell you right now that both of things will happen. I'll tell you right now that the Eagles and Cowboys and Browns are every bit as bad as the Redskins are. I'll tell you that the Ravens and Giants are not unwinnable games. (as evidence by the fact that we almost beat the giants 3 weeks ago)

With a kicker who seems to make kicks, a QB and RB who are always scoring threats, the only thing stopping this team from winning more games than they lose is the secondary and the lethargy that has obviously infected the coaching staff.

There is ZERO reason why a coach shouldn't look at the remaining 7 games and think you have a real shot at going 6-1 or 7-0 and that clearly still gives you a shot at the playoffs.

On top of that, it sets a horrible example for the young players on the team. If this was one of McNabbs teams and you were going to sit old guys for rookies, sure. But with young players? You want them to keep fighting.

This is one of the worst bits of coaching I have ever seen.

[lovemaskins]

In Kleese thread I said that despite the outcome for this season however distasteful Shanahan must come back for continuity sake for Griffin's development alone.

But, right now I'm starting to feel like if Shanahan were to be replaced it wouldn't be that big of hiccup. Imho Griffin's is being vastly underdeveloped in the rhythm drop back passing game and under utilized as passer in general. We drafted one of the most gifted arm talents I've seen in recent drafts and are making him run more option then he did in college. We are finally going to need a real GM and a coach that could ensure overall scheme continuity and the key component needs to be a coach that is an expert with QBs/passing game e.g. Tom Clement.

This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been saying this since the beginning of the season (QB Takin the Wrong Kinda Lumps Thread) yet people keep saying, "but we' scoring points and RG3 is athletic use em', blah blah blah." Yet our rookie phenom isn't getting the opportunity to develop into a PURE PASSER. Ye, the pistol is cool, but its a flavor of the month offense. Not whats gonna get us a championship. The fact that Shanahans aren't letting him develop properly which leads me to think we need a change at coach.

TEAMS ARE GETTING FILM NOW. THE POINTS ARE DECLINING NOW. And Robert hasn't been forced to read coverages, and it showed today vs a 4 man front, dropping 7 into coverage. HE STRUGGLED!

I'll have a coach ready to coach in 2012 not 1995.

[HAILSKINSNYC]

I'm not a Shanny fan....I'm glad people are starting to turn on him. Hopefully the owner isn't gun shy.

Fact is, having RG3 makes this a great job....my top 2 candidates to replace him would be...

Gruden & Chip Kelly.

[lovemaskins]

i can't remember who said it, but i'm starting to come around to the train of thought that the shanahans are riding on griffin's athleticism and not his throwing ability. If they can't develop him into a passer, i have no problems with cleaning the entire coaching staff. I've said as much all day. Griffin needs to throw more just like the other rookie qbs. The time to "protect him" is over.

now people are starting to freaking get it. Gotta let him throw, gotta let him throw.

[Mursilis]

not just that. i'm talking about on the large scale. I'm stuck between whether we should keep shanny or let him go at the end of the season. There are pros and cons to doing both. and i don't know what to make about how i'm feeling about the situation. I'm sort of at a cross roads.

I'd love to know what the "pros" are for keeping Shanahan. This team is really no better, three years later, than the 4-12 team he inherited. Sure, some of players are younger, and the QB is much, much better, but Shanahan's still finding new ways to lose. Shanahan's still doing stupid stuff like icing the kicker, and this team still fades badly down the stretch. This team does NOT look like it's being coached by an experienced, veteran coach. I think Shanahan's just here to make a ton of $$ (basically, he's Haynesworth with a headset), and I have no expectation that any of this will change while he's here. People pleading for consistency and patience must not be watching the games - this team is already consistent. It's consistently bad. What has Shanny changed exactly?

[HAILSKINSNYC]

Shanny is a glorified version of Norv Turner...he's an offensive coordinator...I'm not interested in hearing about his 2 superbowls...barry switzer won a superbowl.

My issues with Shanny start with his game management...these are areas he can control....taking timeouts on offense late in the game down two scores, is amateurish. Attempting 62 yd FG's with Cundiff, etc...

Throw in his many bad personnel decisions, coaching staff decisions, the lack of team discipline and the propensity to self destruct.

[Dirt]

Before I even heard about this post-game presser, I already, for the first time, finally, had a feeling of doubt for the Shannahan's. I've defended Mike, and I've defended Kyle's playcalling. But that nonsense in the redzone has me scratching my head at Kyle, and everything else that's going wrong has to be on Shanny's shoulders.

Losing is one thing. Having the worst defense in the league, what's becoming a simply gimmicky offense, and having the last 2 games be...just so boring and blah and predictable and 'It's over' in the 3rd quarter...I just don't see how it turns around. I'm not sure better players make a difference. Special teams problems (even if not today), ridiculous penalties (even if we think the refs are screwing us). It's just not right.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

If we travel all the way down the road of replacing Shanahan, I'd like to rebuild our front office the correct way...with separation of duties. At a minimum, give Allen personnel duties. If not, allow him to hire that position and THEN let that man determine who will be our next coach.

[hail2skins]

There is ZERO reason why a coach shouldn't look at the remaining 7 games and think you have a real shot at going 6-1 or 7-0 and that clearly still gives you a shot at the playoffs.

Before the game I thought we had an outside shot at maybe going 6-2 and perhaps grabbing the sixth spot. But then I looked at this defense, and thought "Nah....." 8-8 best case, which still might get you in this year where there seems to be a race to the bottom for that last spot, but I honestly wouldn't like getting in the playoffs with a non-winning record.

After losing to Carolina, though, its not difficult to imagine us perhaps going 1-6 or 0-7 down the stretch. Getting (maybe) Garcon back should help the downfield game, but I have no idea how you de-screw this defense. All that with Shanny's abysmal clock management, and its hard not to be discouraged.

This loss is on a par with Zorn's 2009 loss to KC and Gibbs' 2006 loss to the Titans. Just another lost year.

[chipwhich]

NO question. That would have to be paramount.

I don't so much blame Snyder for this, even given the disaster under Gibbs doing the same; as he obviously thought he was doing the right thing by getting a two time SB winning, HoF headed HC under any circumstance and pairing him with a 'GM' to work the figures. The mere fact Snyder handed over the keys at all and stepped RIGHT back into the shadows has to be applauded.

But we can't give one man all the power again.

Hail.

The problem is all these big name coaches want full control.

A real GM would be great but doubt it will happen under Danny.