If Shanahan's given up, what hope do we really have with him? A pretty darn disappointed and disillusioned long time backer of the HC.

[SkinsFTW]

Basically Shanahan wanted to do this during the game:

[ORAKPOPHOBIA-98]

This was our homecoming game. We were celebrating 80 years. We were wearing our snazzy throwback duds. More than 150 Redskins alumni were in attendance. You're supposed to win the homecoming game.

As with any good homecoming game, we had a cupcake match-up against a struggling 1-6 team. You need to win the easy ones.

If you look at how the Panthers played the Bears, I wouldn't call a game against them a cupcake match-up. They are not as bad as their record indicates. They've been in all their games, save vs. the Giants. We caught them at the wrong time, when their offense and defense were just starting to come together. It was unrealistic to think we would walk all over this team. Last week they didn't let down against the Bears, a much better team than us, and they sure weren't going to let down this week just because it was our homecoming game. Disappointing that we didn't rise to the occasion regardless, but managing expecations to realistic levels, the way the game turned out was in line with what we saw in both teams' previous games.

I hope the bye week serves as an opportunity to swing the momentum back around.

[s0crates]

If you look at how the Panthers played the Bears, I wouldn't call a game against them a cupcake match-up. They are not as bad as their record indicates. They've been in all their games, save vs. the Giants. We caught them at the wrong time, when their offense and defense were just starting to come together. It was unrealistic to think we would walk all over this team. Last week they didn't let down against the Bears, a much better team than us, and they sure weren't going to let down this week just because it was our homecoming game. Disappointing that we didn't rise to the occasion regardless, but managing expecations to realistic levels, the way the game turned out was in line with what we saw in both teams' previous games.

I hope the bye week serves as an opportunity to swing the momentum back around.

I guess there is no such thing as a cupcake match-up in the NFL, but if you want to be a contender then you need to beat a 1-6 team. We are obviously nowhere near being a contender though.

[SkinsFTW]

We basically need to win out if we want to make the playoffs, and it has been over a year since this team put together back-to-back wins, so let's call the odds of that very slim. Maybe I should give up too.

The Redskins haven't won 5 straight divisional games since 1983. Not even the 1991 team did it. Yeah, forget the playoffs. We play the Ravens and Browns too so maybe we beat the Ravens then lose to the Browns, that would fit the trend.

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 02:37 AM ----------

If you look at how the Panthers played the Bears, I wouldn't call a game against them a cupcake match-up. They are not as bad as their record indicates.

You can say that about any team in the league. The Jags beat the Colts in Indy and came close to beating the Vikings on the road too. The Chiefs won at New Orleans and should've beat the Ravens. The Browns beat Cinci and SD.

[rskin72]

I read this whole thread.....and must say I agree with a lot of viewpoints expressed here. I am working in Guam, so was unable to attend the game vs the panthers.....gave my daughter my tickets, and she texted me after the game that "your team sucks". I got up at 5am here to listen to some of the game via internet radio....and was stunned to hear that we were losing to the Panthers. Say what you will, but the panthers were 1-6. That is not a good team....and a team we should have beaten IF we were good.

I am very conflicted about the root of the issues with this team....but after the past couple of games, where we were dominated by a beatable team in the Steelers ( I watched that game) and apparently were also owned by the pathetic Panthers......I am beginning to think that our coaching may be the root cause of the evil.

I have never been a fan of the coach being a GM as well. Don't know too many of those scenarios that have worked out well.....outside of maybe Parcells. So, Shanahan has brought the groceries to cook the meal....and this is what we have to feast on. While most of us knew in pre-season that we had some weaknesses on this team......it seems that there are more weaknesses than anyone imagined.

Then....when we consider that a team like the Colts....who were 2-14 last season, blew up their front office and coaching staff....rookie QB.....coach develops cancer.....low expectations this season....and suddenly they are 5-3 and look like a playoff team. Seattle....with another rookie QB.....and alibet a lot of defense talent....is 5-4 and look stout. Even Miami....again with a rookie QB and new HC....are 4-4. Are you kidding me here?

In short....I just don't see this team as competitive in Shanny's third year as HC. Granted we have injuries....key injuries....but every team in the NFL has to cope with this. Do we really believe with Rak and Carriker our defense would somehow be top 5? I don't buy that. Our pass rush may be improved, but our secondary would still be woeful. Yea....we were dealt a bad hand WRT the MARA cap crap....but still our coaching staff chose the secondary players that we have. I recall listening to Moving the Chains after they visited Redskin training camp, and they were not impressed with our secondary at all.

I am not quite onboard with a complete cleaning of the house yet......and I did not hear the Shanny post game comments either.....but with the overall play of the team.. for all of the time Shanny has been GM/HC.....and the overall record......it is clear to me that something needs to change other than the players. I mean, I remember watching Gibbs II teams and wincing about untimely penalities.....poor clock mamagement.....but I thought those teams still provided effort and had heart. We made the playoffs with Gibbs II. Not so with Shanny.

Guess we will see how the season plays out....and how the team performs in the next game after the bye....home vs the Beagles that I will be in the stands for. It is one thing for a team to play a close, hard fought game and lose.....another to not be competitive. I get the feeling that our team is just not consistently competitive even after 2.5 years of rebuilding. I want to see progress....not sure that this is the case.

[s0crates]

Nice post rskin72. You've summarized most of the sensible things said in this thread quite well. I also like the personal touch there. That text from your daughter had to sting.

[RandyHolt]

He has finally a stud QB. He has had 3 years, 3 years, to get basic protections in place to protect him in the pocket. A place all NFL QB's have to live eventually. It looks to me that RG3 has little confidence there, he is under pressure from few rushers.

Mike remains focused on hand selecting no name linemen to coach up to be NFLers. He by passes top rated linemen and takes reaches, like LeRib. Keeps waiting for Jamal Brown. Pulls Black out of retirement? Willie Smith is starting in Oakland last I checked.

At some point, it needs to be accepted that he cannot build a line. Its a passing league now. Is not Denver 1995 anymore. Teams have to pass to make come backs, run hurry up, run 2 minute drills, and coaches must protect the QB first.

Mike's primary focus has been to run the ball, and develop his son. He didn't seem well prepared to develop RG3. His OL does not even provide basic protections for him. We cant blame injuries on the OL not being able to pass pro. Its all on Mike. If he cant get pass pro in place in 3 years, I don't think he can do it in 5. Do you?

The problem is not can he build a line, its his philosophy when trying. He does not build lines to pass pro.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Great post rskin's man.

Pretty much encapsulates everything.

Hail.

[HogNose]

Shanny & Co. will now be shutting RG3 down to save him for next year.

[MustangSteve]

Gibbs, forgive me because I'm upset and I have bee saying some these same things for years... WHY DID HE GUT THE ONE STRENGTH THIS TEAM HAD FOR YEARS? That 4-3 needed some youth/aggression in certain areas not a complete face lift.

Our offense needed to be retooled completely . It's like he's making this harder than it had to be. We still have the same needs we had since he took the helm and a whole host of new ones he created along the way.

HAIL

This is the reason for the losing and frustration. Never fix something thats not broke, this was the strength of this team and well respected across the league. Jim Haslett is accountable for this. Next is Kyle and his play calling. This team drove down the field inside the 10 yard line twice, when Kyle got fancy instead of getting aggressive.

Both times we pitched the ball back at least 5 yards and lost those yards. Why not play action to receivers that were catching fire, at that time they were catching everything, or drive it down their throat with Morris who was eating them up in chunks of yards. Instead we get 6 points, there is NO excuse for that type of play calling. We dont even take shots to the endzone incase anyone else doesn't notice!

I Hope Mike see's this, we went from attacking teams and scoring 30+ points to an offense that won't even take a shot downfield anymore, and you wonder why we are losing Mike? The Steelers had their 2 best starters out in their secondary and we only tried 1 shot late in the game that should have been PI. No wonder the Texans never made the playoffs till Kyle was gone!

[jnhay]

Three seasons is not short term in today's NFL. It does not take 5 years to see moderate progress. We have seen none minus drafting RGIII and stealing Morris.

What do you mean by "progress"? Did you expect something like 4-12, 6-10, 8-8? I think Shanahan has really started to put together the players he wants. If the coach tells you he's not taking shortcuts, why believe him and then fire him when you don't see short term results? And 3 years is still short term. Just not in DC, where it's an eternity for a coach. It's especially short when you also expect the team to be rebuilt to be much younger.

[s0crates]

What do you mean by "progress"? Did you expect something like 4-12, 6-10, 8-8? I think Shanahan has really started to put together the players he wants. If the coach tells you he's not taking shortcuts, why believe him and then fire him when you don't see short term results? And 3 years is still short term. Just not in DC, where it's an eternity for a coach. It's especially short when you also expect the team to be rebuilt to be much younger.

This would be more convincing if teams like the Colts and Seahawks were not able to rebuild as fast as they have.

That being said I do think you have to keep in mind it is a 5-year plan, it is just disheartening to see so little in the way of progress in year 3.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

This would be more convincing if teams like the Colts and Seahawks were not able to rebuild as fast as they have.

That being said I do think you have to keep in mind it is a 5-year plan, it is just disheartening to see so little in the way of progress in year 3.

It's not so much the lack of progress in terms of wins for me, but the lack of overall continued, fundamental mistakes and penalties that's more glaring. The discipline and pride just doesn't appear instilled in the group at all.

And three years in, that shouldn't be a recurring problem.

Hail.

[ixcuincle]

I came in here in the offseason and said I didn't like the way he was coaching. I got a load of crap.

I'll come in here and say that although he's not helping, he should not be fired. The team is massively more talented than last year in terms of the QB position. The team actually showed up to games unlike last year.

However, that doesn't excuse the poor penalties, or the atrocious defense. He won't be fired, but the results with him have not been good at all. I think when he was hired, that we would expect better than this.

[GWinSkins83]

Let's just this...we need some nasty semi dirty players. Mike Shanahan seems to be getting soft on his players and his philosophy. In Denver when his offense was on the 2 yard line he would smash it in. Now he calling gimmick plays. It also see Mike and or either Kyle has or faith in RG3 or the line in the passing game. Because I could have sworn last year we were a passing team and RG3 was a prolific passer in college. Why aren't we running more of a no huddle passing spread option system?

[s0crates]

It's not so much the lack of progress in terms of wins for me, but the lack of overall continued, fundamental mistakes and penalties that's more glaring. The discipline and pride just doesn't appear instilled in the group at all.

And three years in, that shouldn't be a recurring problem.

Hail.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the discipline and pride thing.

Gibbs was able to have a modicum of success here in his second tenure despite a long absence from the game, a bad front office, a thin roster, and even his own shortcomings as a strategist in the modern NFL. The reason he had the success he did (and the likes of which we have not seen since the first time he coached the team) is that he was and is a natural leader. There were a lot of problems with his teams, but his teams cared and they played like they cared.

Gibbs' teams had leadership that Shanny's teams seem to lack. I think that this contrast speaks volumes. Give me a great leader over a great strategist any day.

[FrFan]

Shanahan made a mistake when he said to the media it's time to evaluate personnel. I wonder if his evaluation includes him and his coaching staff too ? Starting with questionable calls such as stubbornly calling running plays from 1st to 3rd/4th and goal. I'm not going to say we've got to fire him, I try to put things into perspective knowing we paid a great toll to key players injuries and this clown Mara did hurt us even more.

I hope we will get Garçon and Merriweather back asap. The problem with this team is that we really can't afford any injury to key players. We have no roster depth and I believe that's what makes the difference from being 3-6 instead of 5-4.

[aREDSKIN]

And the real reason raises it's head as to why the Skins have just suck. A classless do nothing, probably ddrinking all the time, quitter of a HC.You think the players can't see this? Time to cut our losses & frustrations and get rid of the whole entire lot.Pretty apparant they are not NFL caliber material at this point. Not even close.

[jnhay]

This would be more convincing if teams like the Colts and Seahawks were not able to rebuild as fast as they have.

That being said I do think you have to keep in mind it is a 5-year plan, it is just disheartening to see so little in the way of progress in year 3.

Who said they've rebuilt? You can pull out several teams that had bad records last year and are doing better this year, but you can also do the same with teams that were doing better last year and worse this year. People will say these teams were fast to rebuild, but then they're short-lived.

[Probos]

He took the defeat badly - and he should. The last two games the team has not looked well prepared, and that's down to him. The defense has practically given up, and the bad attitude seems to be spreading to the offense. The number of penalties we are collecting is unacceptable. I think he has half a season to show he still can control the direction of this team or he may well be gone.

This about sums it up.

The team is eight games into a season in a "must win" game and they come out with almost zero passion, no fire, making mistakes and letting a mediocre team come into your home and beat you. It's embarrassing.

And I can't believe Shanahan would say something like this in his press conference 9 games in,......what are the players suppose to think? It's unacceptable.

[quettefan]

...A classless do nothing, probably ddrinking all the time, quitter of a HC.

what's your basis for saying Shanahan drinks all the time? (I haven't read anywhere that suggests this)

[WellsHTTR]

Then....when we consider that a team like the Colts....who were 2-14 last season, blew up their front office and coaching staff....rookie QB.....coach develops cancer.....low expectations this season....and suddenly they are 5-3 and look like a playoff team. Seattle....with another rookie QB.....and alibet a lot of defense talent....is 5-4 and look stout. Even Miami....again with a rookie QB and new HC....are 4-4. Are you kidding me here?

This sums up what has been most painful for me watching this team since Shanahan took over. Why are things that seem so easy for other teams, so hard for us? For example, it was supposed to be years before the Colts contended after blowing up their roster, bringing a new staff, and changing their offensive and defensive schemes completely. And yet, they're winning. You can't put it all on Luck, who's having a good-but-not-great rookie season and has made his fair share of costly errors. What is it, then? Are they scheming better than we are? Were their previous drafts more fruitful? Maybe they had more talent to begin with? Hard to say. It's just tough seeing bad teams turn things around and leave us in the dust.

Generally, Shanahan deserves credit for changing the locker room culture, drafting well, and finding quality players in free agency, but he deserves blame for mishandling many of the guys who were already on our roster. Campbell was not so bad a quarterback as to justify letting Andy Reid hoodwink us into trading two draft picks for McNabb. Neither QB was particularly coachable, but at least Campbell was young. Haynesworth was an absolute disaster who, while not signed by Shanahan, clearly was a time bomb and should not have been accommodated. Hall... well, I have no idea what should have been done there. But I do think that Rogers' and Landry's desire to leave wasn't inevitable. Shanahan should have done more to make these guys want to stay here. They aren't the best at their positions, but can anyone say with a straight face that a plugging in a non-malcontent Rogers or Landry wouldn't hugely boost our ailing secondary?

My verdict is this: Shanahan's "win now" mentality from the moment he stepped in is now costing us in year 3 of his contract. Maybe Shanahan deserves a break for coming into a team with serious baggage that was unique to us. The Haynesworth and Hall contracts were horrible for the club, we lacked quality depth from years of bad drafting, and the culture was toxic. But imagine if in 2010 we had cut Haynesworth, cut/restructured Hall, eaten the cap hits entirely in that year, declined the McNabb trade, and used our 2nd and 4th picks in the 2010 draft for quality players? Of course, hindsight is 20/20. Still, the fanbase and the team would have been much better served by a strategy in year 1 that emphasized the importance of developing young talent and of jettisoning players with bloated contracts. We'd have several more home-drafted players and no cap penalty.

[Cahills_Skins]

Head coaches NEVER have success with their second team.

No SB winning head coach in the History of the game has won a Super Bowl with his 2nd team. Doesn't look like that is going to change anytime soon.

The Skins need a leader like Gibbs. Anything less and we're going to be Zorned forever.

I no longer believe in the Shana-Plan. Good work you got us our QB for the next 10 years, now please check your bags at the curb and take Haslett with you.

Tom Coughlin, cough, cough.

[Voice_of_Reason]

This is why the season isn't over:

Right now, the Seahawks are the 6th playoff team at 5-4. The Skins are only 2 games back with 7 games to play. I know the Seahawks schedule looks easy, but is anyone convinced the Seahawks are a good team?

Other 4 loss teams? The Vikings, who the Skins already own a tiebreaker against and have 4 games left against the Bears/Packers and one with the Lions. The Lions who have 3 games with Bears/Packers and one with the Vikings. The Bucs, who you already own a tiebreaker against and have two games against the Falcons. And possibly the Cowboys and Eagles, who still play twice and can therefore catch up to with no help.

Heck, even the Giants have the Falcons and Packers on their schedule...

3-6 sounds horrible until you realize the only "help" you need to make the playoffs is one Giants loss or 2 seahawks losses at least one of which is a conf game.

I'll tell you right now that both of things will happen. I'll tell you right now that the Eagles and Cowboys and Browns are every bit as bad as the Redskins are. I'll tell you that the Ravens and Giants are not unwinnable games. (as evidence by the fact that we almost beat the giants 3 weeks ago)

With a kicker who seems to make kicks, a QB and RB who are always scoring threats, the only thing stopping this team from winning more games than they lose is the secondary and the lethargy that has obviously infected the coaching staff.

There is ZERO reason why a coach shouldn't look at the remaining 7 games and think you have a real shot at going 6-1 or 7-0 and that clearly still gives you a shot at the playoffs.

On top of that, it sets a horrible example for the young players on the team. If this was one of McNabbs teams and you were going to sit old guys for rookies, sure. But with young players? You want them to keep fighting.

This is one of the worst bits of coaching I have ever seen.

Which is exactly why when he comes out after the game and says that he's in evaluation mode, it shows that he has given up. It's just ridiculous.

[Skinsinparadise]

However, it's like I said earlier, no good coach in this entire country wants to come here with the mess they would inherit. No 1st round draft picks for the next 3 years & enormous holes to fill across the board. We need so many positions filled, it's mind numbing.

Conversely, if you give a coach an option ok, you got no #1 picks for 2 years but you got RG 3, i think 99% of 100 will go for that trade off and take the franchise QB -- it apparently acording to the media at least why got Fisher took the job with the Rams he wanted a marquee QB. Finding the next Carlos Rogers in the draft isn't that hard, franchise Qbs on the other hand...