If Shanahan's given up, what hope do we really have with him? A pretty darn disappointed and disillusioned long time backer of the HC.

[SWFLSkins]

It's not so much the lack of progress in terms of wins for me, but the lack of overall continued, fundamental mistakes and penalties that's more glaring. The discipline and pride just doesn't appear instilled in the group at all.

And three years in, that shouldn't be a recurring problem.

Hail.

Yes GHH, and I just copied and pasted my post from another thread, seems to fit here and saves me some time.....

-----------------------------------

Originally Posted by Rabsuz

Toughest poll of my entire life.

------------------------------------------

My response to the above....

Not mine, easiest. Coaching plain and simple. The Coach said before the season that this is the most depth he has had since he has been here. Those are his words, not mine. Injuries suck, poor evaluation sucks more. The Coach also hired the defensive coaches and manages the offense. The timing of some plays is suspect at best, while the offense has proven to be good, the clock management, the lack of intensity- Yesterdays must win, and that is what you muster?

Team looked flat and unprepared at home against a 1-6 team. The suckage does not stop there, the keeping of Banks, the kicker rotation prior to and during the season, keeping of Danny Smith, and the overrated WR core that he hand picked. Moss the lone leftover being the best on the team exposes a weakness of not being able to adjust to one injury and then developing what you have. The RB's other than the gem he seems to have put too much time into are non-existent.

Yes this morning I awoke not angry but faced with reality, our Coach is not who I thought he was. I hope he proves me wrong but up until today he didn't have to do that, I believed in him and his abilities, now I question them.

[Skinzfever2010]

This sums up what has been most painful for me watching this team since Shanahan took over. Why are things that seem so easy for other teams, so hard for us? For example, it was supposed to be years before the Colts contended after blowing up their roster, bringing a new staff, and changing their offensive and defensive schemes completely. And yet, they're winning. You can't put it all on Luck, who's having a good-but-not-great rookie season and has made his fair share of costly errors. What is it, then? Are they scheming better than we are? Were their previous drafts more fruitful? Maybe they had more talent to begin with? Hard to say. It's just tough seeing bad teams turn things around and leave us in the dust.

Generally, Shanahan deserves credit for changing the locker room culture, drafting well, and finding quality players in free agency, but he deserves blame for mishandling many of the guys who were already on our roster. Campbell was not so bad a quarterback as to justify letting Andy Reid hoodwink us into trading two draft picks for McNabb. Neither QB was particularly coachable, but at least Campbell was young. Haynesworth was an absolute disaster who, while not signed by Shanahan, clearly was a time bomb and should not have been accommodated. Hall... well, I have no idea what should have been done there. But I do think that Rogers' and Landry's desire to leave wasn't inevitable. Shanahan should have done more to make these guys want to stay here. They aren't the best at their positions, but can anyone say with a straight face that a plugging in a non-malcontent Rogers or Landry wouldn't hugely boost our ailing secondary?

My verdict is this: Shanahan's "win now" mentality from the moment he stepped in is now costing us in year 3 of his contract. Maybe Shanahan deserves a break for coming into a team with serious baggage that was unique to us. The Haynesworth and Hall contracts were horrible for the club, we lacked quality depth from years of bad drafting, and the culture was toxic. But imagine if in 2010 we had cut Haynesworth, cut/restructured Hall, eaten the cap hits entirely in that year, declined the McNabb trade, and used our 2nd and 4th picks in the 2010 draft for quality players? Of course, hindsight is 20/20. Still, the fanbase and the team would have been much better served by a strategy in year 1 that emphasized the importance of developing young talent and of jettisoning players with bloated contracts. We'd have several more home-drafted players and no cap penalty.

Well written, Mike has been making mistakes since he took the job. It's crazy because you couldn't criticize the man here for it until now. He's literally done one thing right since being here and that's draft RGIII.

However, that is going to hurt for years because we mortgaged so many picks to get him. I just don't understand why or how the man could be so dumb.

Even DENVER has gone through 2 rebuilds since they fired him and look light years ahead of us.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

It's not so much the lack of progress in terms of wins for me, but the lack of overall continued, fundamental mistakes and penalties that's more glaring. The discipline and pride just doesn't appear instilled in the group at all.

And three years in, that shouldn't be a recurring problem.

Hail.

+100

I thought we would win maybe 5-6 games this year...but i didn't expect to see the same stupid mistakes over and over again. I mean we were crushed by a team that was 1-6, at home. There is so much pressure on the O for them to score every time they get the ball b/c our D cant stop anyone. That i think it's hindering the O.

[SWFLSkins]

Which is exactly why when he comes out after the game and says that he's in evaluation mode, it shows that he has given up. It's just ridiculous.

Don't look further than......

[Boss_Hogg]

It's a double edged sword. Say Dan Snyder fires Mike and Bruce. Now, we have to rely on Snyder to pick the next GM and coach.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I will give Mike Shan. one more year before I throw the towel on him. Jim Haslett on the otherhand has to go.

'K. So do you then trust Shanahan to pick the new DC after he hand picked Haslet and has the final say on that?

Hail.

[DarkLink]

I will give Mike Shan. one more year before I throw the towel on him. Jim Haslett on the otherhand has to go.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Double post. My bad.

Continue on.

Hail.

[Mursilis]

I will give Mike Shan. one more year before I throw the towel on him. Jim Haslett on the otherhand has to go.

UnWise Mike reported in the Post that Haslett didn't want to switch to a 3-4, but Shanahan told him to do so. Yet Haslett is the one catching the blame for the 3-4 not working this season.

[jtpop]

The problem is an overall lack of playmakers on both sides of the ball, Shanahan and Allen have to be held accountable for that. Our defense is HORRIBLE, they would have to play their best game to be TERRIBLE. We have no speed other than RG3 and he can't throw it and then go catch it himself. The only bright spot from yesterday was our Kicker nailed two more and hasn't missed since being signed. Please get some defensive players this off season and maybe a new coordinator as well, Haslett just is not cutting it. While we are at it can Kyle at least run a play on 4th and 2 at the goal line that has some OPTIONS! Geez he is like a kid with a playstation with his play calling sometimes.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

..... While we are at it can Kyle at least run a play on 4th and 2 at the goal line that has some OPTIONS! Geez he is like a kid with a playstation with his play calling sometimes.

It was cringe worthy yesterday watching a Panthers team that knew pretty much exactly what was coming. Not least down by the goal line.

Hail.

[WellsHTTR]

Well written, Mike has been making mistakes since he took the job. It's crazy because you couldn't criticize the man here for it until now. He's literally done one thing right since being here and that's draft RGIII.

However, that is going to hurt for years because we mortgaged so many picks to get him. I just don't understand why or how the man could be so dumb.

Even DENVER has gone through 2 rebuilds since they fired him and look light years ahead of us.

I wouldn't go that far. As I said, Shanahan's done right here in a lot of ways. Drafting Griffin was one of many ways in which he's improved the team. But Shanahan has also made several bad decisions--several like McNabb that were indisputably bad--that have really hurt us.

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 08:10 AM ----------

UnWise Mike reported in the Post that Haslett didn't want to switch to a 3-4, but Shanahan told him to do so. Yet Haslett is the one catching the blame for the 3-4 not working this season.

If that's true, then it's another high-profile example of Shanahan's ego getting the best of him in the face of contrary advice by a coordinator. It's pretty well known by now that Kyle vehemently proposed trading for McNabb. We saw how well that panned out. Now, we have reports of Haslett having been opposed to the 3-4 switch from the beginning. The merits of the decision have been argued ad nauseum elsewhere, but it's hard to deny that our 4-3 personnel in 2010 weren't awful, and that there have been substantial growing pains in switching to the 3-4 that have led us to cut quality guys (like Carter) and make other guys learn a new position (like Orakpo).

[RandyHolt]

Of course Haslet didn't want the 3-4. He is a 4-3 guy, with a little 34 experience many years ago in Pittsburgh. Mike was hell bent on moving to the 34 and should be held accountable for it not working.

Wanting Haslet canned... well eventually it really means you want Shanahanacanned. He got a 4-3 guy to coach a team full of competent 4-3 guys. In a 3-4. He re-invented the wheel and it didn't work. He probably feels guilty about possibly canning Haslet when he knows its his own horrible decision.

We drafted 2 stud 4-3 DE's and immediately converted them to OLB's. Instead of bulking them up a bit, we made them stand up, lose weight, and learn pass coverage. So now they are one dimensional - speed rushers only.

Our best players on D, forced to learn new positions. Taken out of the role and place, that made us enamored with them in the first place. I hate schemes that have to do that with players.

[illone]

All achieved some form of success with new teams. (Gibbs may have been with the same franchise but an obviously different team and even league)

Actually, I qualified success in my post by saying "won super bowls". None of the guys you posted won a Super Bowl with their 2nd team.

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 06:15 AM ----------

It's a double edged sword. Say Dan Snyder fires Mike and Bruce. Now, we have to rely on Snyder to pick the next GM and coach.

I want a new owner, too. Can we fire Snyder?

[USS Redskins]

I was never on board with Shanny. He is an old angry dictator who has been given way too much control of the team...

I will give him credit for snaggin RG3. thats it. This is year 3 and the whole team has quit on him.

He has been given ample time to do something with this team and they will probably finish with 4 wins this year.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Of course Haslet didn't want the 3-4. He is a 4-3 guy, with a little 34 experience many years ago in Pittsburgh. Mike was hell bent on moving to the 34 and should be held accountable for it not working.

Haslett sucked as a 4-3 coach too. The error was not hiring Romeo "I built a 3x Super Bowl winning 3-4 defense" Crennel.

We drafted 2 stud 4-3 DE's and immediately converted them to OLB's. Instead of bulking them up a bit, we made them stand up, lose weight, and learn pass coverage.

How many 3-4 OLBs played 3-4 OLB in college again? Oh right, none that play in the NFL atm.

[Mursilis]

If that's true, then it's another high-profile example of Shanahan's ego getting the best of him in the face of contrary advice by a coordinator. It's pretty well known by now that Kyle vehemently proposed trading for McNabb. We saw how well that panned out. Now, we have reports of Haslett having been opposed to the 3-4 switch from the beginning. The merits of the decision have been argued ad nauseum elsewhere, but it's hard to deny that our 4-3 personnel in 2010 weren't awful, and that there have been substantial growing pains in switching to the 3-4 that have led us to cut quality guys (like Carter) and make other guys learn a new position (like Orakpo).

And that's why I've got no faith in Shanahan - his ego is just too big, and he clings to stupid ideas (like icing the kicker) even when evidence clearly suggests they're not working. His ego led him to think he could make a run with a 4-12 team and coach up an older, fading QB (McNabb), and his ego made him think he could be both a GM and a coach, even though no other coach has been successful (won a Super Bowl) handling both roles. Shanahan's ego will doom him here.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Haslett sucked as a 4-3 coach too. The error was not hiring Romeo "I built a 3x Super Bowl winning 3-4 defense" Crennel. .....

Wasn't he already the DC in Kansas when Mike got the gig here?

Hail.

[authentic]

The problem is an overall lack of playmakers on both sides of the ball, Shanahan and Allen have to be held accountable for that. Our defense is HORRIBLE, they would have to play their best game to be TERRIBLE. We have no speed other than RG3 and he can't throw it and then go catch it himself. The only bright spot from yesterday was our Kicker nailed two more and hasn't missed since being signed. Please get some defensive players this off season and maybe a new coordinator as well, Haslett just is not cutting it. While we are at it can Kyle at least run a play on 4th and 2 at the goal line that has some OPTIONS! Geez he is like a kid with a playstation with his play calling sometimes.

I said essentially the samething on twitter. You look around the league and teams are full of playmakers (thugs). Our team lack passion and fire and over-the-top talent. They're nice players, but not good enough to overcome adversity.... IDK seems like the same ol BS, IMO. The offense is better, but not good enough to be consistantly good (but i think the OLine has alot to do with that). The Defense is a complete mess! Never seen this defense be look so depressing.

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 08:25 AM ----------

Haslett sucked as a 4-3 coach too. The error was not hiring Romeo "I built a 3x Super Bowl winning 3-4 defense" Crennel..

Actually we had an opportunity to hire Wade Phillips after the 2010 season and stayed with Haz.. with Shanny knowing full well that Haz was no good. (or should have known anyway)

[RandyHolt]

Haslett sucked as a 4-3 coach too. The error was not hiring Romeo "I built a 3x Super Bowl winning 3-4 defense" Crennel.

How many 3-4 OLBs played 3-4 OLB in college again? Oh right, none that play in the NFL atm.

Oh I agree Haslet sucked in his 4-3 days, but at least he inherited a respectable 4-3 D. Only, Shanny converted our best 4-3 guys into 3-4 guys, or released them. And expected a guy with a thin resume to make it all work.

It must have killed Haslet to see his lifeline 4-3 guys, changed or flat out dumped. I always hated the 3-4, but primarily because we never ran it.

Riley is invisible this year. Fletch has slowed. Turns out Zo, a DT really, is not a savior. I wanted Rak and Ryan getting after the QB every pass play. Only, one is always stuck in coverage if we want to mask who is coming, the benefit of the 3-4. Does anyone ever want either in pass coverage? Just because other teams have found 3-4 OLBs doesnt mean its the best way for us to play defense.

We are so not a 3-4 team even after 3 years. Bulk up Rak and Kerrigan, and we are back into a 4-3 in no time flat.

How many years should it take to convert to a 3-4?

[SWFLSkins]

I will give Mike Shan. one more year before I throw the towel on him. Jim Haslett on the otherhand has to go.

I generally agree on this, his statement that this is the most depth he has had here before the season starting though deserves review by Bruce and Snyder.

[Skins Wingman]

who else can we get thats a legit head coach? i think the 2 best options (cowher and gruden) both have tv contracts. i dont think we can take a chance on an unproven coach

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

..... Actually we had an opportunity to hire Wade Phillips after the 2010 season and stayed with Haz.. with Shanny knowing full well that Haz was no good. (or should have known anyway)

Oh, I completely and utterly agree with you. The persistence with Haslett fly's in the face of all logic. He should of been canned after that first year.

Just at the time he got the gig, there was little options available for a DC.

That said, I wouldn't trust him to pick a new one now. And I'm liking Morris less and less looking at his part in the debacle. Even the hold over starters in his group are fundamentally flawed week-on-week.

Hail.

[Bleed B&G]

who else can we get thats a legit head coach? i think the 2 best options (cowher and gruden) both have tv contracts. i dont think we can take a chance on an unproven coach

Sean Peyton... But Shanny's not going anywhere. I wouldn't be suprised to see Peyton in Dallas next year.

[Mursilis]

i dont think we can take a chance on an unproven coach

Why not? Nothing gambled, nothing gained. Sticking with Shanahan at this point is just committing to mediocrity, at best.