If Shanahan's given up, what hope do we really have with him? A pretty darn disappointed and disillusioned long time backer of the HC.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

If we travel all the way down the road of replacing Shanahan, I'd like to rebuild our front office the correct way...with separation of duties. At a minimum, give Allen personnel duties. If not, allow him to hire that position and THEN let that man determine who will be our next coach.

NO question. That would have to be paramount.

I don't so much blame Snyder for this, even given the disaster under Gibbs doing the same; as he obviously thought he was doing the right thing by getting a two time SB winning, HoF headed HC under any circumstance and pairing him with a 'GM' to work the figures. The mere fact Snyder handed over the keys at all and stepped RIGHT back into the shadows has to be applauded.

But we can't give one man all the power again.

Hail.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

NO question. That would have to be paramount.

I don't so much blame Snyder for this, even given the disaster under Gibbs doing the same; as he obviously thought he was doing the right thing by getting a two time SB winning, HoF headed HC under any circumstance and pairing him with a 'GM' to work the figures. The mere fact Snyder handed over the keys at all and stepped RIGHT back into the shadows has to be applauded.

But we can't give one man all the power again.

Hail.

I agree. I like having Allen here too...even if he's doing nothing more than running football operations. Let him use his networking to find a bright GM and work with him to hire a coach. Like you said, we are MUCH less dysfunctional than we were so this wouldn't be a tough transition. Oh well, we are 1.5 years from this decision, minimum.

[authentic]

This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been saying this since the beginning of the season (QB Takin the Wrong Kinda Lumps Thread) yet people keep saying, "but we' scoring points and RG3 is athletic use em', blah blah blah." Yet our rookie phenom isn't getting the opportunity to develop into a PURE PASSER. Ye, the pistol is cool, but its a flavor of the month offense. Not whats gonna get us a championship. The fact that Shanahans aren't letting him develop properly which leads me to think we need a change at coach.

TEAMS ARE GETTING FILM NOW. THE POINTS ARE DECLINING NOW. And Robert hasn't been forced to read coverages, and it showed today vs a 4 man front, dropping 7 into coverage. HE STRUGGLED!

I'll have a coach ready to coach in 2012 not 1995.

I agree 100%.. and something i was mulling over during the game.. I love RG3's ability as runner, and it should be valued. But at some point in his progression as a QB, we must utilize him in a more traditional offense. all the option stuff was good during the first 3-5 weeks or so. But as you bear down through the 2nd half of the schedule, you must revert back to more of a traditional drop back and pass. And its not like we don't have a viable RB to run the ball. I think all of this needs to be taken under consideration during the bye week.

[skins island connection]

Ya know, Mike is a decent/good coach. I'm not gonna defend him, but I'm certainly not gonna hang him; at least personally.

He's made a couple of questionable/bad decisions on coaching staff, the glaring one being Haslett. Haslett is nothing remotely close to DC material and his record proves it. Mike had the 'idea' of running a 3-4 defense, which obviously hasn't taken root, and although its Haslett's responsibility to build a defense worthy of putting on the field, Mike is in a bind with that hiring, and more than likely firing.

Kyle is different; I wasn't keen on this kid from the get-go, but I was thrashed by some because I merely pointed out his lack of experience. Actually he has the same problem as Haslett; the inability to coach players. Kyle's claim-to-fame was being OC of the Texans, whom had a stud receiver and QB before he got that job, so he had nothing to do with their increased productivity; funny that now Houston is a top tier team, with a DC who got there last year and has them playing at a high level AND winning, which is WHAT a coach/DC should do. But Kyle was brought in, and now seems to be drifting into the college playbook more and more, and outside of Morris and RGIII there is squat on the offense.

Frustrating? ABSOLUTELY! Mad as hell? YOU BET YOUR ASS!

There's this common thing known world-wide as accountability; the ability to own up to mistakes, accept blame as well as praise, and Mike should look deep and hard into his decisions on coaching staff; changes are glaring on the defensive side, but with the offense paying millions of dollars to players who either can't catch or have bo-bo's on their toes, it seems that the only players he's signing are ones who wanna get paid, so changes MUST be made, or else Mike himself will be on the outside looking in.

Pride and common sense are slowly fading away, time to bring it back...

SIC

[hail2skins]

The problem is all these big name coaches want full control.

A real GM would be great but doubt it will happen under Danny.

We can only hope that, at some point, Danny again hires someone who isn't a big name. That's when we'll know that our owner has really changed.

Dare to dream....................

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I agree 100%.. and something i was mulling over during the game.. I love RG3's ability as runner, and it should be valued. But at some point in his progression as a QB, we must utilize him in a more traditional offense. all the option stuff was good during the first 3-5 weeks or so. But as you bear down through the 2nd half of the schedule, you must revert back to more of a traditional drop back and pass. And its not like we don't have a viable RB to run the ball. I think all of this needs to be taken under consideration during the bye week.

If there's a facet of this coaching staff that deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to redefining itself, it's our offense. We came out in September with a radically different look than we saw in 2010 and 2011, so it's reasonable to expect some additional adjustments after a bye week.

[PapaLazarou]

If he has lost the respect of the players, then I don't see how his tenure is recoverable.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

..... Oh well, we are 1.5 years from this decision, minimum.

You know, I've never been in any doubt that Snyder had fully bought into Shanahan's original contract and he'd get the full 5 years regardless.

But having seen how amazingly fast RGIII's adapted, and how everything else is holding him back, I aren't as sure.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he rightly steps back in behind the scenes and has Mike in for a sit down after what transpired earlier.

Hail.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

He might become more of a micromanager, but I can't see him firing Shanahan after this season.

[FuriousD]

I think y'all are reading too much into this statement, surprisingly! (not) The reporter stated in his opening that Mike had called this a "must game" and Mike agreed. Any HC doesn't call any game a must game without good reasons and the reasons are always dire. And so we find our reporter and intrepid HC talking post-game about the ramifications of losing that game and you act shocked that he's reduced to talking about who's gonna be on the team next year?

I think it's important to go back and listen again to the way Mike say's "losing like that!". Obviously there were plenty of lackluster performances out there this afternoon. This team went out today with everything on the line and embarrassed itself and so much so that Mike is reduced to talking about players job security. Leave that statement hanging in the air with a week off to think about it! Do you think that's a little more motivating for the players than sugercoating the truth for them and the overly sensitive fan base?

Nah. After a game like that you tell it like it is. Get your **** together or get gone!

[celticsalmon]

Over reaction is what I'm reading here. Shanahan never said he's given up hope! He spoke of being disappointed and evaluating the players he wants. That was a passive aggressive attempt at motivating his team - reverse psychology. Exhibiting anger and screaming might make some of you -who experience the manic highs and depressive lows each week- feel better- but it's no way to motivate grown men. He put his players on notice and placed responsibility on their shoulders. I wouldn't be surprised if the players have a meeting among themselves before the Philly game.

[texasthunder]

There's this common thing known world-wide as accountability; the ability to own up to mistakes, accept blame as well as praise, and Mike should look deep and hard into his decisions on coaching staff; changes are glaring on the defensive side, but with the offense paying millions of dollars to players who either can't catch or have bo-bo's on their toes, it seems that the only players he's signing are ones who wanna get paid, so changes MUST be made, or else Mike himself will be on the outside looking in.

Pride and common sense are slowly fading away, time to bring it back...

SIC

On if he worries about players losing faith in the direction of the team:

“I think everybody is disappointed. Everybody is disappointed in what happened today. You’re looking for guys to step up – both offensively, defensively and on special teams. Obviously, I can do a better job because we didn’t do that today. We didn’t do that as a team. I take full responsibility for that.”

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?373327-FedExField-Game-Notes-and-Quotes-vs-Panthers

[CMonster]

I think there is a real problem here. It sounds like multiple players, including RG3, have said they don't agree that the competitive portion of the season is over. That's a potential rift between players and coaches that would be close to impossible to recover from.

There are other bigger picture problems. The team is routinely undisciplined. The drops and penalties are absurd. Shanahan's decision to dismantle the 4-3 now looks like a disaster. And the personnel decisions look really poor, as somehow it now appears that Logan Paulsen is now our most reliable weapon in the passing game.

Losing is one thing, but Shanahan is now 2.5 years into his tenure and his win% is worse than Zorn or Spurrier. That's simply not acceptable because we don't look close to turning the corner. We now have a QB playing at a high level and are running the ball at will and the rest of the team is a disaster.

I think something significant has to happen over the bye week and firing Haslett seems like the obvious move. If there isn't a significant improvement in performance through the end of the season (and the Zorn/Spurrier win% is a fair bar to cross) then I think Shanahan should be fired. Allen should be made "Head of Football Ops" and a real personnel guy should be hired to bring in a coach and a system to build around RG3. If Shanahan can't get the team playing competent NFL football by the end of year 3, it will sadly be time to move on. That would be 6 consecutive years for a Shanahan-coached team to be out of the playoffs and enough to call it more than a trend.

---------- Post added November-4th-2012 at 07:34 PM ----------

Ok, now it looks like we officially have a problem.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/the-redskins-might-be-playing-to-evaluate-players-but-its-too-early-for-mike-shanahan-to-say-so/2012/11/04/083ded50-26e0-11e2-9972-71bf64ea091c_story_1.html

[1972dodgedart]

The lesson from Gibbs II applies here -- there is a lot of risk in hiring older coaches who've been out of the game and earned their reputations in a much different environment. The reality is that Shanny's championships in Denver only have so much shelf life in that locker room -- a lot of the players didn't even have a driver's license back then. So what you've got is a CEO-like coach who is respected but has no real connection to the guys on the field -- for the opposite, take a look at what is happening in Indy (be honest -- did anyone think the Colts had a superior roster at the beginning of the season?).

I still don't think they're over the loss to the Giants -- young teams that do not have a tradition of winning lose confidence fast, and the way they lost that game was a confidence killer. I've yet to see anything from Shanny that says he knows how to deal with this -- in fact, saying "we're in evaluation mode" only makes it worse.

Maybe he turns it around, who knows. But it already sounds like he's started his laundry list of excuses for his departure.

[Skins199021]

oh man lets just rush the decision and fire the coach again..... thats definitely the one thing that has worked over the last 20 year................ (sarcasm just in case)

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

..... Ok, now it looks like we officially have a problem.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/the-redskins-might-be-playing-to-evaluate-players-but-its-too-early-for-mike-shanahan-to-say-so/2012/11/04/083ded50-26e0-11e2-9972-71bf64ea091c_story_1.html

We'll be the talk of the town on every show going all week over this.

As if things weren't bad enough around here.

Hail.

[Murphs56]

The only legs Shanahan has to stand on is the development of Griffin and the fact you don't want this kid having to learn a new system in his 2nd year. Other than that, his record warrants him being fired.

[lovemaskins]

I agree 100%.. and something i was mulling over during the game.. I love RG3's ability as runner, and it should be valued. But at some point in his progression as a QB, we must utilize him in a more traditional offense. all the option stuff was good during the first 3-5 weeks or so. But as you bear down through the 2nd half of the schedule, you must revert back to more of a traditional drop back and pass. And its not like we don't have a viable RB to run the ball. I think all of this needs to be taken under consideration during the bye week.

Exactly, and considering we already looking at next year, according to Shanahn, what time better to work on the qb fundamentals then the next wo weeks and spend the rest of the year getting him experience with the arm. We know he can run now. Its like two weeks after Christmas now, batteries have died, and we're back to playing with the old toys.

[IrepDC]

I don't think its a personnel issue at all. We simply don't do attack downfield often despite having the best downfield thrower from last years draft. Tannehill throws downfield more and who does he have at WR?

I see the issue as well. I honestly don't think they trust the OL to protect for those down the field throws. The only way we are about to take shots is off of play action.

[The Fax]

He's a realist. He knows we're basically done. How many teams have come back from 3-6 to make the playoffs? I was actually encouraged by this press conference, I believe Haslett will be receiving his pink slip in a couple days and we will see a much improved defense under Morris. I think Kyle has a couple more weeks, he's been solid play-calling about for about 70% of the season so far.

[Dallsux]

He needs to come out with a strong message tomorrow.

Yeah. Fire Jim Haslet. Fire Kyle Shanahan. I know he won't do that, but it needs to be done.

I like Mike Shanahan. But the people he has surrounded himself with is dragging his good name thru the mud. And that includes his son, who seemingly doesn't have any clue how to call a good game.

[amm0409]

. And he's talking of evaluating and looking to next season. It's open knowledge I never expected much of anything out of this season results wise.

.

Hail.

Is it motivational, see what kind of character the players play with? Why not just bench RG3 to risk injury and start Cousins to see if he can play and trade?

[Destino]

The only legs Shanahan has to stand on is the development of Griffin and the fact you don't want this kid having to learn a new system in his 2nd year. Other than that, his record warrants him being fired.

After 9 games:

2010: 4-5

2011: 3-6

2011: 3-6

Progress baby! This team has found reasons to fail miserably every year. At some point they all just become excuses.

[1972dodgedart]

We'll be the talk of the town on every show going all week over this.

As if things weren't bad enough around here.

Hail.

It's absurd -- does Shanny really think this will motivate the players to perform?. The "evaluation" threat has little impact in a league where almost everyone can be cut at any time anyway.

[heatman28]

The whole coaching staff SUCKS!!!