Brandon Banks: Clash Time--Should He Stay or Should He Go? (MET)

[Bang]

I think some people are underestimating Banks as a player in the offense. When they use him in those packages where he motions into the backfield it has to be obnoxious for defenses.

You're kidding right?

They aren't afraid of him. No one is.

One man can take him down with one hand.

note the Vikings game, Antoin Winfield... little 5'9" 190 lb Antoin Winfield did just that,, knocked that little tiny prancy boy over with his wrist. Banks got the ball, Winfield made his move, All it took was his wrist and palm, and down went the 159 lb sack of feathers.

No one follows him on those long looping playfakes.

When the season started I thought maybe his speed would make defenses account for him.

Now I know better. No one cares what he's doing. If he gets the ball, their smallest guy is way more than a match for him.

When he comes on the field we announce we're going with ten men for this play.

I noted on Thursday that when Griffin had several plays in which Banks was trailing, he chose to eat the ball rather than pitch it, including once smashing into a double team tackle for a measly one yeard gain rather than put it in Banks' hands.

Give it up on this runt.

~Bang

[fwo40]

That's ironic you say that because every "cut Banks" posts seems to be oozing misguided emotion. What magical running lanes do you want this guy to take? He gets all the yards he can every return.

You want somebody to quantify?! How about you look at the only stat there is. For return yards and average he is on par with every returner in the league. What the **** else can you quantify!

And people talking about him fielding a punt on the 1 yard line...yes, that was a terrible play and I was disgusted with that. But the best returnees make mistakes. Devin Hester looses 10-15 yards on some punt returns trying to do too much every now and then. It happens. Get over it.

Count me in "the people talking about him fielding a punt on the 1 yard line". It was beyond a bad decision it speaks to the type of player Banks is...not smart. Devin Hester does not field balls inside the 10, let alone at the 1...Devin recognizes that he has one job on his team, and that's to be a returner and give his team field position. Banks' play was something that highschoolers get benched over....and you know he's heard not to field that ball probably a 1,000 times in life.

So, it would appear he has bad instincts or low football iq to go with fumble problems....why wait for this to finally bite us in a huge spot?

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Exactly this whole discussion seems ridiculous. I not saying the guy is a superstar but he is not really hindering the team. Banks can not be blamed for any loss this year.

Is the basis of releasing players whether or not they directly cost us games? Banks costs us field position over and over every single game, which can cost us games anyway. If he's not fielding punts inside the 10, he's letting them bounce over his head on the 30 so they can be downed.

I get there aren't always running lanes open, so maybe just try your best to find one, make one, slip past a defender or anything that involves running forward instead of directly to the sidelines.

His contributions on offense are so minor and easily replaceable and improvable they are not worth mentioning.

I just cannot figure out why some people have such a strong attachment to this guy.

[MustangSteve]

What should happen is Danny Smiths ST should open him a damn hole to run through like they use too! Then we can see this kids speed again as he's taking it to the house. Not even Devin Hester can run through 11 men, he needs a hole as well, then his speed does the rest. Do your damn job Danny Smith so this speedster can put even more points on the board. Nobody is going to run a kick or punt back with that pathetic blocking we have on special teams.

Ever since they moved the kick off 5 yards forward, because Mara got torched by Banks the year before, Danny Smith can't adjust to it. Yes Mara was part of this kickoff move, he's trying anything to give his whores any advantage he can. Damn it I hate that man and his team because of him. And do your job Danny Smith or get out of Washington and off my team!

[KCClybun]

What should happen is Danny Smiths ST should open him a damn hole to run through like they use too! Then we can see this kids speed again as he's taking it to the house. Not even Devin Hester can run through 11 men, he needs a hole as well, then his speed does the rest. Do your damn job Danny Smith so this speedster can put even more points on the board. Nobody is going to run a kick or punt back with that pathetic blocking we have on special teams.

Ever since they moved the kick off 5 yards forward, because Mara got torched by Banks the year before, Danny Smith can't adjust to it. Yes Mara was part of this kickoff move, he's trying anything to give his whores any advantage he can. Damn it I hate that man and his team because of him. And do your job Danny Smith or get out of Washington and off my team!

This is bull.

Watch Banks return. Seriously, just watch him return, don't let any emotion get in the way. Get the All-22 if you can, but if you can't, and you have the game DVR'd or something, just fast forward and watch Banks return.

Banks first problem is, he doesn't allow his blocks to set up. He's impatient. He comes out of the end zone or fields a punt, and he's at 100 MPH. He doesn't have any vision; on kick offs he'll out run his blockers, and/or he misses opportunities to cut back. Or, on punts, he'll catch the ball, start running, then freak out because the blocking isn't perfect (yet), then spin around and try and go the other way. If he sticks his foot in the ground and gets up field, he gains yard. Too often he leaves yards on the field.

His second problem is, he always wants to get to a sideline. Again, he won't get north and south. He'll take a kick out of the end zone, and the first thing he does, before letting anything set up, is start veering towards the sideline. Guys can't even get themselves turned around and set up to block, because he's so friggin' impatience, and trying to create a lane on a sideline is a lot harder than trying to create one in the open field.

Watch Devin Hester return; the first thing he does is he tries to find a crack in the middle of the field. He's patient; he allows his blocks to set up, and he does a fantastic job reading those blocks.

Banks just wants to go fast. There's more to being a kick returner than just being fast though.

He's not getting cut, he'll be here until the end of the season. Then we'll see if Shanny wants to cut his umbilical cord.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

What should happen is Danny Smiths ST should open him a damn hole to run through like they use too! Then we can see this kids speed again as he's taking it to the house. Not even Devin Hester can run through 11 men, he needs a hole as well, then his speed does the rest. Do your damn job Danny Smith so this speedster can put even more points on the board. Nobody is going to run a kick or punt back with that pathetic blocking we have on special teams.

Ever since they moved the kick off 5 yards forward, because Mara got torched by Banks the year before, Danny Smith can't adjust to it. Yes Mara was part of this kickoff move, he's trying anything to give his whores any advantage he can. Damn it I hate that man and his team because of him. And do your job Danny Smith or get out of Washington and off my team!

You're kidding right? So Mara decided to move the kickoffs because he is scared of Brandon Banks and his one career KR TD? I know you're a big conspiracy guy but you honestly don't believe that...

[Bang]

That's ironic you say that because every "cut Banks" posts seems to be oozing misguided emotion. What magical running lanes do you want this guy to take? He gets all the yards he can every return.

Completely false.. the guy runs sideways. He run BACKWARDS. He doesn't do it every now and then. He does it all the damn time.

You know what though.. what you said is exactly right.. he gets all the yards HE can get.

and he can't get anymore because he has no ass and can't force a crack or a seam or run through any arm tackles. Hell, he can't even run through a finger tackle.

he has no idea how to wset up a block.. or even wait for them to set up so they can even try to help him.

He has to be UNTOUCHED or he's going down.

So yes, he gets all HE can get. And what HE can get is paltry.

besides, when you keep taking the ball out 7 yards deep, he's not getting all he can get. In fact, he almost always loses yards off of "all he can get".

Drifting back to field a punt in th end zone to return to the 4 is not getting all he can get. It's losing 16 yards for no other reason than his own stupidity.

You want somebody to quantify?! How about you look at the only stat there is. For return yards and average he is on par with every returner in the league. What the **** else can you quantify!

Mistakes. Mental errors.

**** his average.He fumbles and muffs the ball more than anyone. it's a flat miracle he's managed to recover them all himself. How long are you willing to risk that gamble?

He drifts back and fields punts in the end zone, then runs them out to the 4. he lets punts bounce right behind his ass and then chases it down while a defender is hot on his ass.These are not unusual occurences.. he makes potentially disastrous mental errors every week.

What is a punt returner supposed to do when the ball hits the ground? You've known this since you were a little kid.

Get AWAY from it. ESPECIALLY when it hits behind him and he can't even SEE the bounce. Banks doesn;'t seem to understand this. eitehr that or he's too ****y to care. Either way, it's a disaster waiting to happen. above all your punt returner has to be SMART because he is back there by himselfand can instantly screw up the entire game on his own with a bad decision. He can flip momentum in a heartbeat,, ll it takes is one of those bounces to hit his leg, or one of those muffs to bounce the other way. (It' not as if he doesn't give the ball plenty of chances to get away from him.)

He's a disaster waiting to happen.

And people talking about him fielding a punt on the 1 yard line...yes, that was a terrible play and I was disgusted with that. But the best returnees make mistakes. Devin Hester looses 10-15 yards on some punt returns trying to do too much every now and then. It happens. Get over it.

No. that doesn't happen. Devin Hester does not drift back 15 yards to field a ball IN the end zone, and then run it to the 4.

Devin Hester does not let balls bounce where they can hit him. Devin Hester does not fumble and muff 9 to 12 balls a year..

even bringing Hesters name up in this conversation is ridiculous, He's a hall of famer, one of the best ever at returning kicks He's one of the very very few who can make it happen on his own.. The only way he compares to Banks is in the number of fingers and toes they each have.

When you're in a playoff push like this, you can't afford those mistakes, epecially when they happen as consistently as this.

they can cost you a season in one play at this time of year. (and if he does, well, i guess we'll all just have to 'get over it')

Banks stinks, he is a stupid player who does stupid things. All the excuses made for him really just shows who has their emotions wrapped up in this.

are you the guy saying we should all just blindly support him because he wears our helmet?

That's emotion blinding YOU to reality. See that runt for what he is.

A bum.

~Bang

[maskedsuperstar]

I was on the Banks bandwagon. But I think its time too move on in the offseason. I have no idea why he doesn't run north and south. He doesn't run with any burst. I don't get it. Time to part ways.

[Bang]

I was on the Banks bandwagon. But I think its time too move on in the offseason. I have no idea why he doesn't run north and south. He doesn't run with any burst. I don't get it. Time to part ways.

I had hopes for him too. I remember a few of his returns that were spectacular.

But he doesn't run north and south because like NLC says,, he doesn't wait for his blocks, so when he takes off, he's usually right up his blocker's butt or he's facing the coverage. So he turns.

Thing is, the problems Banks has are what you'd think are correctable mistakes,, mental things.

but they never get corrected, and with the two plays I keep harping on in the last two weeks, it's getting worse.

Sounds like my usual refrain against Danny Smith,, player underperforming.. .. but the fact is this year we've been outstanding on special teams in many areas in which we've had problems. Penalties are almost non existant this year. Kudos to Danny.

Our coverage units, Niles Paul and Lorenzo Alexander especially.. outstanding. Niles Paul has been fantastic as the gunner this year. Kudos to Danny. Finally found a kicker... how many Kudos Danny gets for that is debatable,, i'll take it though, Forbath is good.

But banks... if my logic against Danny Smith in the past has been that all of his units had problems, when it gets to what we see now in which all of his players are doing VERY well, except ONE who is making ungodly mistakes.. well, I have to think it's got to be the player...because the coach has everyone else up to snuff.

~Bang

[Burgold]

Kudos to Danny.

~Bang

Still way too many blocked kicks though none really since the early part of the season.

[Bang]

Still way too many blocked kicks though none really since the early part of the season.

Being an optimist, and given the knee problems Rocca has, I'd have to give credit and say Danny made some adjustment and got the players on the same page.

(That and the first one happened on the play that Sundberg broke his arm, so .. there's a few possible excuses a homer like me might be willing to allow.)

~Bang

[Burgold]

Being an optimist, and given the knee problems Rocca has, I'd have to give credit and say Danny made some adjustment and got the players on the same page.

(That and the first one happened on the play that Sundberg broke his arm, so .. there's a few possible excuses a homer like me might be willing to allow.)

~Bang

Whoa? Bizzaroville... Bang coming to Smith's defense!

[Bang]

Whoa? Bizzaroville... Bang coming to Smith's defense!

Hey,, facts is facts! Can't deny them!

They're playing well as a unit.. except for banks.

~Bang

[flexxskins]

Based on what, your feelings.

I think you should roll up your sleeve and stop wearing them for us to see.

I like Banks, I like what he adds to this team. You put anyone else on kick offs or punt returns and you get 5 more yards.

Kick offs and punt returns require more than just a person to return them.......they require solid blocking up front!

Sounds like YOU should focus your frustration on Danny [the golden child] Smith and the special teams blocking. Where are the running lanes for a guy with Banks speed?

"Sounds like"? Just as I thought, you haven't even watched any Redskins games.

Instead of just saying that you like Banks, why don't you try saying what it is that you like about him. What in your opinion has he done for the team? For all we know you could just like his dreads or his TD endzone dancing (from last season of course).

BTW, if you have to ask "where are the running lanes for a guy with Banks' speed?" You are truly not watching games and you definately didn't read much of this thread. It is obvious that Banks is trying to avoid as much contact as possible by immediately sprinting towards the sideline as soon as he catches a kick/punt and isn't worried about or even bothers looking for running lanes. Whatever the reason or reasons are for Banks not willing to turn it up the field are open for debate. You know, for us cry babies.

And I wish that the crybabies would do the same and realize that the coaches know something that we don't.

What do they know about Banks that we don't big guy?

[Bacon]

To answer the title

[maskedsuperstar]

I had hopes for him too. I remember a few of his returns that were spectacular.

But he doesn't run north and south because like NLC says,, he doesn't wait for his blocks, so when he takes off, he's usually right up his blocker's butt or he's facing the coverage. So he turns.

Thing is, the problems Banks has are what you'd think are correctable mistakes,, mental things.

but they never get corrected, and with the two plays I keep harping on in the last two weeks, it's getting worse.

Sounds like my usual refrain against Danny Smith,, player underperforming.. .. but the fact is this year we've been outstanding on special teams in many areas in which we've had problems. Penalties are almost non existant this year. Kudos to Danny.

Our coverage units, Niles Paul and Lorenzo Alexander especially.. outstanding. Niles Paul has been fantastic as the gunner this year. Kudos to Danny. Finally found a kicker... how many Kudos Danny gets for that is debatable,, i'll take it though, Forbath is good.

But banks... if my logic against Danny Smith in the past has been that all of his units had problems, when it gets to what we see now in which all of his players are doing VERY well, except ONE who is making ungodly mistakes.. well, I have to think it's got to be the player...because the coach has everyone else up to snuff.

~Bang

I know we went back and forth over Banks, during the summer. You were right. Banks probably needed to be cut. The WR class is deep in the draft.

[Prototype]

Aldrick Robinson should be our KR/PR guy. He has the speed, and he's bigger, and he can contribute at WR.

Banks is pretty much worthless. (Watch him get picked up by Dallas and all of a sudden do great)

[Dirt]

I think the coaches know Banks isn't all that. I think they've come to the realization that he's not very likely to take one of those screens or sweeps to the house. But they still run at least one per game. A couple weeks ago, after running one that failed (duh), later they fake the screen to Banks, Banks leaping in the air for the "ball" and everything. It can't help but draw defenders, and after the pump fake, RG3 sails a beauty to a wide open Hankerson for something like a 20-30 yard gain, I believe. A successful play at the expense of one wasted play, and I believe it was the plan all along.

So, a player as a 'decoy' and nothing more? Maybe. Stupid idea? Well, defensive coordinators already have their hands full trying to figure out our 'crap'. They see Banks motion in the backfield, linebackers at least have to think for a second. What are they thinking? "I'm not worried about that little twerp getting the ball"? "I can't wait to hit that little guy"? Whatever it is, they should be thinking about RG3, and at least once, I've seen Banks prove as a useful distraction.

Our offense is working because it's different, tricky, etc. Everything we do works pretty well, so I'm inclined to give the Shannahan's the benefit of the doubt as to why Banks sees offensive snaps so often.

Now, don't worry Bang and co, lol I know I'm reaching a bit. On to the things about Banks that are unacceptable, besides punt return issues (count me in, it's bull****. forget fielding the punt in the endzone, he DOES let punts bounce right next to him and it IS a miracle that ALL OF THEM haven't bounced into him). I challenge anyone to show me one instance of the RG3/Banks option play that not only has worked, but hasn't given you a heart attack. That **** is ridiculous. The only times Rob ever actually tossed it to Banks was when he had to because he was getting tackled and that's just an outstanding way to contort your body and get injured. By now, defenses know Rob doesn't want to toss it, and the play has become an instance of "might as well have just fielded 10 guys". Enough. For the love of god, scrap that play. PLEASE. It requires not only 100% perfect blocking down the field, but it basically requires a defender or two to fall down, and it doesn't set up any future plays like the one described above. A waste of time, every time.

Kickoff returns: meh. It's becoming a lost art anyhow, and he seems to get it to the 20 at least. But like mentioned in the thread: if a TD, or even a big big return IS going to happen, it's probably going to require a broken tackle, which has not, and will not ever happen with Brandon Banks. Santana's kind of small too, but the dude can spin through people. Aldrick can put a foot in the ground, fake that direction and go the other. Banks has no such tricks in his bag.

So overall...bye bye Banks. That type of game planning to use a screen then fake it later can be used with other players. The only benefit I can think of is that banks is so small, defenders see red, want to kill him and lose their focus a bit. As kind of a little guy myself (and I'm still bigger than Banks lol), I can tell you from experience, mostly as a kid when I was REALLY scrawny, people just want to manhandle you and bully you. lol. Obviously not good enough of a trait to be on a NFL team. His risk at returns and risks to RG3's health on ridiculous option tosses far outweigh anything positive he's ever done on this team.

[Botched]

Both our special teams blocking and our return man stink.

Whatever spark Brandon Banks had in 2010 is long gone. It's almost comical to watch him get the ball now, whether it's on a return or on offense. He's much too tentative and barely manages to get positive yards at all. For some reason Mike Shanahan and Danny Smith still seem to think he's a weapon. Either they don't want to admit they were wrong for keeping him, or they see something that most everyone else -especially opposing defenses- don't.

[Saqs]

Brandon should do nothing but catch balls from the jug machine in the offseason and maybe try to put on a little weight. He's got the speed to contribute in spot/odd play duty in the NFL and although he stinks as a returner, I think he has value and will do good somewhere else if he's not here.

[Bang]

Brandon should do nothing but catch balls from the jug machine in the offseason and maybe try to put on a little weight. He's got the speed to contribute in spot/odd play duty in the NFL and although he stinks as a returner, I think he has value and will do good somewhere else if he's not here.

How will any of that fix his brain?

More weight won't help if he doesn't know how to set up or follow a block.

Catching balls from a machine won't help if he has no idea when to catch them and when to get away from them.

He's too dumb.

These mistakes he makes are basic fundamental football that everyone who has ever caught a punt or kickoff knows. (Hell, people who have done nothing but watch football know when to let a punt go.)

The fact he has yet to figure them out, and gets actually worse in his decisions is enough to know he's too stupid to be productive.

~Bang

[Wildbunny]

The real question when it comes down to a Return Specialist, is: "Is he doing things nobody else can do on your team?".

And the answer right now is "NO". Simple as that. Sure those fake plays with him are nice, from times to times, but I'm pretty sure you could run them with somebody else. And pergaps with better success.

Regarding the returns. Well, I can admit that he have no running lanes. But if he have no running lanes, tries to avoid contact almost every time he gets the ball, an makes stupid decision such as returning a punt from the endzone. I would say that any body on this team could do it, without the stupidity.

Then if anybody can do his job, then you have no need to keep him on the roster. Make some place for another WR or another DB, and put someone else in the return duty. Even if you put in a guy and commands him to only take a knee, in the endzone during KO, or sign for fair catch during a Punt, you would improve the return game drastically over a Banks that fumbles way to often and makes stupid thing.

[Sticksboi05]

Sorry, why is he still on this team?

[gortiz]

Sorry, why is he still on this team?

Straight from the horses mouth ...

Mike Shanahan studying Brandon Banks’ decision making

“The reason why we do have [him] in our offense as a receiver and a running back [is] we know the potential that he has to make plays,” Shanahan said. “He’s made some big plays for us. We’re going to give him those options. He’s a guy who’s got a lot of energy. He can make plays.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2012/11/26/mike-shanahan-studying-brandon-banks-decision-making/

---------- Post added November-26th-2012 at 11:39 AM ----------

(Watch him get picked up by Dallas and all of a sudden do great)

NO dude ... the Pats will get him and he'll be amazing.

[Rypien1191]

I have faith in Shanny but I'm seriously going to question it if Banks is on the team next year. Michael Turner and Ben Jarvus GE are bigger threats to make big plays than Banks and they run with pianos on their backs. Every time he touches the ball I'm just praying for him not to turn it over.