Kilmer17 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 I dont believe that McCain or Collins will change their votes. Paul has already stated that he will not. This is a dead issue. It's just noise for the sake of noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Hersh said: I agree that what you are saying will sell to those not impacted and not losing insurance. They will be behind the GOP health care plan until the GOP ends medicaid expansion, red states don't protect pre-existing conditions and premiums shoot up under this insane plan they are trying to pass. Which is one reason why all of these proposals to screw people have one trait in common - They don't take effect for years. The people writing the laws know full well, that the results will be terrible, for millions of registered voters. (Including Republican voters, which are the only ones they care about.) They don't want Republican voters to actually experience the actual results which they're intentionally voting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Seems like the GOP should drop this issue. If it fails it's an unnecessary self-inflicted wound. If you pass a bad bill you don't gain any new supporters but you risk energizing opposing voters in 2018. People who want repeal just to stick it to Obama are already voting Republican. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 ... well to be fair, people couldn't really explain what Obamacare was going to do. I think what it has done is raise taxes (via health insurance premiums) on the middle class to provide health care to the poor. People didn't want to come out and say that -- but Obamacare and health care premiums have been squeezing the middle class to the point that the middle class ends up "underinsured" so that the poor can have some health care coverage. I don't know that shifting funding to the states necessarily is a good thing. Isn't it better to have the leverage of the Federal government negotiating health care prices than 50 states trying to leverage themselves? As much as I want to believe that Rand Paul is sticking to his conservative principles, I think that he's just holding out for something that he wants in this bill. The funny thing is that the GOP has this time for health care because they are not fighting over the debt/government spending.... so kudos to Trump. Unfortunately, I don't think the GOP legislators really want to repeal Obamacare... because then they will get blamed when the health insurers screw everyone over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 14 hours ago, visionary said: And 10 other Governors, both Democrat and Republican, came out against the bill in a letter to McConnell and Schumer: John Hickenlooper, Colorado John Kasich, Ohio Bill Walker, Alaska Steve Bullock, Montana Tom Wolf, Pennsylvania Terry McAuliffe, Virginia John Bel Edwards, Louisiana Brian Sandoval, Nevada Charles Baker, Massachusetts Phil Scott, Vermont https://www.colorado.gov/governor/sites/default/files/bipartisan_governors_letter_re_graham-cassidy_9-19-17.pdf Maryland Republican Governor Larry Hogan has spoken out came out against the bill as well. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-hogan-obamacare-20170919-story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 One other irony I like from the "states know best crowd"... Louisiana Gov has said that this bill is not good for Louisiana or its people and will reduce the number of people covered in Louisiana. So if your states are telling you, don't pass the bill - how does it pass the "states know best" muster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 15 minutes ago, Fergasun said: I don't know that shifting funding to the states necessarily is a good thing. Isn't it better to have the leverage of the Federal government negotiating health care prices than 50 states trying to leverage themselves? "Shifting funding to the states", AKA "block grants", is simply a vehicle for allowing the Feds to reduce funding, while acting like they didn't. That's its sole function. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Kilmer17 said: I dont believe that McCain or Collins will change their votes. Paul has already stated that he will not. This is a dead issue. It's just noise for the sake of noise. It isn't just noise. Paul will vote Yes regardless of what he's saying. They were only 1 vote short the last time they did this. The only people who might vote no are the same as last time. 17 minutes ago, Fergasun said: One other irony I like from the "states know best crowd"... Louisiana Gov has said that this bill is not good for Louisiana or its people and will reduce the number of people covered in Louisiana. So if your states are telling you, don't pass the bill - how does it pass the "states know best" muster? States right is and always has been BS. These are the same people who are preemptively banning states from doing single payer with these funds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said: States right is and always has been BS. These are the same people who are preemptively banning states from doing single payer with these funds. It's amazing how easily a Senator can be so intellectually dishonest and just not care at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Fergasun said: I think what it has done is raise taxes (via health insurance premiums) on the middle class to provide health care to the poor. People didn't want to come out and say that -- but Obamacare and health care premiums have been squeezing the middle class to the point that the middle class ends up "underinsured" so that the poor can have some health care coverage. I think there is some validity to this point, but IMO the problem is that the so-called "middle class" has been raped, ravaged, savaged and bled white by decades of Republican fiscal insanity so that the tax base/ available resources are hurting from this. In normal times it wouldn't have been an issue, but when millions have been driven out of the middle class into the unwanted peasant class, the balance shifts. ACA/Obamacare/ call-it-what-you-will is not more than this country could provide, but when you start letting the greedmongers call the shots for government policy then policy is going to be "whatever serves me first, most, best and only", and nowadays, it is. In any just time the entire family of the Mercers or Devoses would be led to the guillotine for public beheadings. We're not there yet. I can wait. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 i'm for states rights cause i live in a state that i think makes pretty good decisions and am not worried about one ideology taking over. plus my % of say over the matter is significantly higher at the state level than the federal level. if your state is stupid then vote for someone else. just eyeballing but it looks like the states for reducing medicaid are the same states that didn't expand when it was offered, for the most part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Does feel like Bernie helped prime the pump on this one again for the GOP. I don't want to see Him or Pelosi or their leadership be the loudest voices opposing this. Spend some money on TV/Web ads and get them out there ASAP. Hell, even try to get them on Foxnews if they'll take your money. You can use clips of these Senators from just a few months ago. Focus on the Red States that are going to get hit really hard. Where is the strategy? Now if they don't get this done. Forget about their tax "reform" also. It'll be scorched earth all fall/winter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: Now if they don't get this done. Forget about their tax "reform" also. It'll be scorched earth all fall/winter. Ding-ding-ding! We have a winner! The entire scheme is predicated on stealing the money from Medicare and spreading it around to their owners. This HAS to happen, because the monied vampire class isn't going to like it if they don't get their blood. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 7 hours ago, Cooked Crack said: \These are the same people who are preemptively banning states from doing single payer with these funds. Really? Have a link?....I haven't been following it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 19 minutes ago, twa said: Really? Have a link?....I haven't been following it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, Fergasun said: ... well to be fair, people couldn't really explain what Obamacare was going to do. I think what it has done is raise taxes (via health insurance premiums) on the middle class to provide health care to the poor. People didn't want to come out and say that -- but Obamacare and health care premiums have been squeezing the middle class to the point that the middle class ends up "underinsured" so that the poor can have some health care coverage. I don't know that shifting funding to the states necessarily is a good thing. Isn't it better to have the leverage of the Federal government negotiating health care prices than 50 states trying to leverage themselves? As much as I want to believe that Rand Paul is sticking to his conservative principles, I think that he's just holding out for something that he wants in this bill. The funny thing is that the GOP has this time for health care because they are not fighting over the debt/government spending.... so kudos to Trump. Unfortunately, I don't think the GOP legislators really want to repeal Obamacare... because then they will get blamed when the health insurers screw everyone over. The middle class has been pushed by health insurance premiums and moving towards being under insured well before Obamacare. Obamacare didn't create health care costs raising faster than inflation and health insurance premiums doing so correspondingly (and it might have even slowed things down a little). Edited September 21, 2017 by PeterMP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Hasn't slowed my premiums....aside from ya'll paying part of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, twa said: Hasn't slowed my premiums....aside from ya'll paying part of them. The person that complains about not having enough information about climate change and exactly how much of recent warming is due to human released greenhouse gases knows EXACTLY how much his health insurance premiums would have gone up if Obamacare hadn't been the law the last 8 years to say that Obamcare didn't slow the increases at all. Somehow I'm not surprised. You can probably also tell me EXACTLY how much an increase of minimum wage by $1 is going to cause the price of Big Mac to go up at your local McDonald's too. Edited September 21, 2017 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 They have gone up much faster than the past ,but you are correct I cannot tell what could have been. I hope you enjoy paying mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 (Shrug) I'm 30 and I've been to the doctor maybe 4 times since I was 18. I have no kids and ive never had a need for insurance. I have no problem being required to pay for insurance tho if it helps someone else less fortunate that does need it and helps lower their costs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) Edited September 21, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Moore is a moron. ALL insurance works that way, large groups of people pay into the system and insurance companies work to curtail payouts, thus increasing profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Its the year 2017, where talk show hosts are calling back out politicians who don't understand their own bills... let me guess, is the GOP going to ignore Kimmel now? Happy that he returned to this issue and went back on their intellectual dishonesty. Queue another day of right wing spin... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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