RedskinsFan44 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Interesting bit in the new version has individual states determining their own essential health benefits. Seems like that would preclude the magic "sell across state lines" solution. https://mobile.twitter.com/Phil_Mattingly/status/845076526437687297 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 29 minutes ago, visionary said: Wonder what it took, to get them to change. Bigger tax cut? Putin kidnap some of their children? Trump promise Cruz a Supreme Court seat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 5 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said: So Republicans are playing hardball, pulling funding and most likely all backing if Reps don't vote the right way. People must have intestinal fortitude to do the right thing. "the right thing" lest you forget is actually doing away with obamacare—one part wants obamacare lite the other really wants a full repeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 5 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said: Interesting bit in the new version has individual states determining their own essential health benefits. Seems like that would preclude the magic "sell across state lines" solution. Don't see why it would conflict. After all, the whole basis for the "sell across state lines" "solution" is that it allows insurance companies to sell insurance that violates a state's laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) Edited March 24, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haithman Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 It will pass at the last minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) Edited March 24, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) Edited March 24, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) Edited March 24, 2017 by visionary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan44 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Trump's full of crap, if AHCA fails to pass tomorrow he is every bit as beholden to his voters as house Republicans to try again. But his bluff may work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) Edited March 24, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 7 hours ago, visionary said: I don't see how at this point. Not legally. You owe me $10 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Does anyone know where all our credit cards are regulated? Like 3 states -- I think South Dakota, Nevada and Delaware. Why? Because they have lax laws on prevention of usury... Does anyone else not see that "sell across state lines" will do the same thing to health care? Alabama plan for everyone (because they will have the cheapest plan and least regulations). Why is this not brought up in the discourse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 33 minutes ago, Fergasun said: Why is this not brought up in the discourse? I actually understood this but only because I actively searched out the answer. Maybe it's been brought up. I couldn't say. It doesn't matter though. Repealing and replacing are all that matter. If it ends up being a big cluster****, we can just say that it actually isn't or, if that doesn't work, that it's the left's fault. Problem solved. That GOP has got it figured out man, I tell you. POSPOTUS makes up a story about being wiretapped by Obama. Whole party humors the nonsense and actually pretends like this is a real legitimate thing... NOBODY provides any evidence. EVERYBODY says there is no evidence. Nunes is awarded the honor of being random asshole of the day and does something completely improper and, additionally, in no way backs up the claim but the GOP is gonna turn around say "See! We were right all along!" and the voter base just eats that **** up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 8 hours ago, Fergasun said: Does anyone know where all our credit cards are regulated? Like 3 states -- I think South Dakota, Nevada and Delaware. Why? Because they have lax laws on prevention of usury... Does anyone else not see that "sell across state lines" will do the same thing to health care? Alabama plan for everyone (because they will have the cheapest plan and least regulations). Why is this not brought up in the discourse? The bigger issue is there is no reason it will actually do much good. Some states have tried it, and it didn't lower costs much. The largest obstacle to expanding as an insurance company is not state regulations, but developing a network of providers that makes you attractive to consumers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Perhaps a way to simplify this discussion some. I see a lot of talk about the desire to lower premiums. Let's discuss the options for how to do so. 1). Lower coverage. 2). Have somebody else pay your premiums. (Which doesn't actually lower premiums, it just makes YOUR premiums LOOK lower.) Anybody else got any others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 So today should be fun, in their own words they have made an ultimatum to House Republicans- do it or suffer the consequences. They have moved from the fast patter of a used car salesman or a three card Monte dealer to outright political extortion to force reps to vote for this bill. The piglets are squealing and squirming because they have gotten a flood of pushback from constituents about this AHCA (and yes, that second A stands for atrocity). And the backroom deals effectively slash the savings while reducing coverage even more to try and mollify the TeaParty loons while alienating the moderates even more, great work guys! Rock<<<<< Reps >>>>> Hard place Trump has already threatened to pull support for anyone that votes against it, Ryan has as well, while at the exact same moment they are hearing rumblings from back home about voting their asses out if they go on record in favor of this. This is a good thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 My (admittedly ignorant) assumption? The thing passes today. And reports on the multiple devil's deals that were made will be trickling out over the following days and years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I agree, I think it passes and the amount of instant buyers remorse from those that have their names attached will be monumental, and we know what that means, even more lying to rationalize it. What I am not hearing much about in the conversations about rising premiums/healthcare costs is the incredible increase in insurance company profits, buybacks and dividends have leaped, literally hundreds of billions of dollars under the ACA and yet people always point fingers at the government for it. This Repub plan has one core element, it presupposes that those profit levels stay and everything else has to be jiggered to fit in around them. The politicians are listening to their constituents and are doing what they want, the disconnect comes from people that think that means voters. It doesn't. These corporations have paid good money for the politicians and expect their ROI. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Larry said: Perhaps a way to simplify this discussion some. I see a lot of talk about the desire to lower premiums. Let's discuss the options for how to do so. 1). Lower coverage. 2). Have somebody else pay your premiums. (Which doesn't actually lower premiums, it just makes YOUR premiums LOOK lower.) Anybody else got any others? Why do you hate freedom? If people want to have terrible health insurance that covers virtually nothing, that's there right. Especially since when they get really sick those cost can just be passed to everyone else since there insurance won't cover it. USA, USA. Edited March 24, 2017 by Hersh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I like to use the analogy of the Republicans being akin to oil companies. Wildcatters run in for a quick buck like dumping all the mental patients on the street and keeping the operating costs. Then large scale operations take over and crash the real estate/mortgage markets for huge profits, tapping and draining the large oil fields. Then you see them still hungering for more so now we get insurance fracking to bust up those hard pockets of money in the hands of the peasantry, they'll hold your health or very survival hostage with high premiums and deductibles so you won't dare use any health insurance but you're too scared not to have it, and when you do get sick enough that you can't help it, they will shake out all those bits and pieces of savings or assets or property so they can funnel those into their coffers. It's just smart business. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Unfortunately too true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Larry said: Perhaps a way to simplify this discussion some. I see a lot of talk about the desire to lower premiums. Let's discuss the options for how to do so. 1). Lower coverage. 2). Have somebody else pay your premiums. (Which doesn't actually lower premiums, it just makes YOUR premiums LOOK lower.) Anybody else got any others? Reduce waste and overhead via expanded coverage and/or consolidated coverage. Reducing unpaid bills to zero saves a ton of money. Moving from insurance model to single payer model eliminates the need for profit, and the consolidation also reduces overhead (with the side effect of course of significant job reduction). I'm skeptical about how much savings would actually be realized by having the govt negotiate prices with providers, but in theory you could see that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 1 hour ago, LD0506 said: I agree, I think it passes and the amount of instant buyers remorse from those that have their names attached will be monumental, and we know what that means, even more lying to rationalize it. What I am not hearing much about in the conversations about rising premiums/healthcare costs is the incredible increase in insurance company profits, buybacks and dividends have leaped, literally hundreds of billions of dollars under the ACA and yet people always point fingers at the government for it. This Repub plan has one core element, it presupposes that those profit levels stay and everything else has to be jiggered to fit in around them. The politicians are listening to their constituents and are doing what they want, the disconnect comes from people that think that means voters. It doesn't. These corporations have paid good money for the politicians and expect their ROI. I think this is something most people in this country don't take into account when comparing our mostly for-profit healthcare model to the single payer systems in other countries. Profit is part of the reason our expenses are so much higher. Those profits could buy an awful lot of care and even if I accept the proposition that quality, wait times, etc. are worse under such systems (which mostly isn't true BTW) the choice between less than optimal care vs. nothing should be a no-brainer for most folks. Of course it's the U.S. electorate we're talking about so I guess there needs to be a level below no-brainer. FWIW, I'm not saying that profits are bad, just that it has to be accounted for as one of the drivers of increasing costs in our bloated system as decisions are made about how to change things. I said earlier that I expect the hard liners to get concessions that would make the final bill even worse than the original version. It looks like that's likely to happen. Now we just have to hope for the very public arm twisting by Dump, Ryan and Co. to work its magic on the moderates and we're in business for the healthcare apocalypse that the (claimed) vast majority of 'Muricun voters said they wanted. Beautiful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) We're gonna get the healthcare we deserve. Time to take our medicine. Edited March 24, 2017 by TryTheBeal! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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