We need to draft 2 QBs

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Yeah, I'd put Kellen Moore way ahead in that category as well.

Moore may have the best anticipation in the draft but he is still slow in his mechanics, that and combined with his weak arm probably has lead to his great anticipation.

[Taylor 36]

I would love to see Kirk Cousins in the 5th if he falls that far.

Hitman hit it!!! Rock on, my man. BTW, what were you thinking would be good lotto numbers???

[Commander PK]

For me, it's this simple. Just ask the Colts about the "value" of having a solid back-up QB. Their entire season got flushed last year, primarily because they had no one to back-up Peyton. Rex is the answer at back-up for this season, but what about next season and beyond?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

More than enough mental mistakes with ball placement his time at MS for someone so football smart HH.

Maybe everything else doesn't match up to his super football brain, shrugs.

Hail.

[skinfan2k]

The 1990 Giants would disagree with you. As would the 2008 Patriots. And the 1987 Redskins.

Brady is the exception and those 2 other were in a different genre of football. Gibbs won 3 superbowls with mediocre QBs. he wouldn't be able to do that now

[Mr. Sinister]

For me, it's this simple. Just ask the Colts about the "value" of having a solid back-up QB. There entire season got flushed last year, primarily because they had no one to back up Peyton. Rex is the answer at back-up for this season, but what about next season and beyond?

Agreed. No, Cousins doesn't help us in the short term (meaning this year). It is clearly a pick that will help us down the road, which is what you need in a draft. Not all of the players are going to help you immediately. Backup QB is a necessity.

[Commander PK]

Welcome to ES.

+1 No matter what some people will not be happy.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

For me, it's this simple. Just ask the Colts about the "value" of having a solid back-up QB. Their entire season got flushed last year, primarily because they had no one to back-up Peyton. Rex is the answer at back-up for this season, but what about next season and beyond?

That's the whole crux of the debate. Nobody doubts the sooner Interceptus Rexus is off this team and a competent, reliable back-up in place the better.

It's the price paid when you could of gotten a similar guy to groom to do the same job lower down over what you sacrificed elsewhere that would contribute.

Hail.

[Bang]

Brady is the exception and those 2 other were in a different genre of football. Gibbs won 3 superbowls with mediocre QBs. he wouldn't be able to do that now

Sorry, but Joe Theismann was not a mediocre QB.

The man was NFL MVP, and led the highest scoring offense in history up to that point.

Mediocre is not a word that should ever be associated with Joe Theismann unless discussing his punt return ability or TV career.

and now back to "Smashing Your Head Against a Rock", starring GHH

~Bang

[2cents]

Brady is the exception and those 2 other were in a different genre of football. Gibbs won 3 superbowls with mediocre QBs. he wouldn't be able to do that now[/QUOT

In 1990 the Giants won with Jeff Hostetler after Simms got hurt. In 2008, Brady goes down week one, Pats go 11-5. We won in 87 because we had someone decent when Jay got hurt. In none of these cases was the season OVER when the number one guy went down.

[skinfan2k]

Sorry, but Joe Theismann was not a mediocre QB.

The man was NFL MVP, and led the highest scoring offense in history up to that point

Mediocre is not a word that should ever be associated with Joe Theismann unless discussing his punt return ability or TV career.

and now back to "Smashing Your Head Against a Rock", starring GHH

~Bang

well i mean to edit that post but my point still stands. u need a elite qb now and your season is over if your top qb goes down

[Jumbo]

I am finding the Cousins pick interesting in that it's serving as another kind of half-assed litmus test.

Most of the posters I see energetically upset about the pick are either using rather unintelligent to outright stupid arguments (whether worded well or poorly) and some are also among the people I tend to not think much of football-opinion-wise anyway.

It gives me that sense many of us get I imagine under similar circumstance--the one of when noting someone whose posts you usually don't think much of, take an opposing side to you, it confirms you must be on the right track. :pfft:

I think people who really want to make a solid case the pick was such an obviously bad move should name the player that was available that they think should have taken, then argue the likely value of that guy at that position vs. who's currently on the team against the idea of Cousins @ QB, and then compare the two choices. That would be the proper way to make that argument, and then see if it passes muster as "better thinking than what the FO showed."

It's fairly easy to make a case for the pick, shocking as though that must read to some of the critics. It wasn't my choice at the time, but I quickly saw the value to it, especially after getting deeper into the info on Cousins.

In tournament chess there's a term called "potzers"--the term has been generalized from its earliest form to often describe guys who have never proved themselves as competent in the tournament-level game, but do play at it, read and talk about it, and are known to regularly stand around and kibitz oh-so-assuredly over the games and players who are competing at the top level.

Tossing around cliche-based "arguments" and bromides, and even doing that in an often misused manner, is not making a solid argument, nor is emotionally-driven ranting. Nor is taking cliches and low-grade "reasoning" and dressing them up in a well-worded post (though at least those show some appreciated effort in construction). This all, however, is a staple of message boards. And much of it is the work of potzers.

[darrelgreenie]

Amazing all the players you have chosen to pick instead of the Cousins pick are going to be 1st year impact players for the Skins' date=' yet the player Shanny picked is DOA?[/quote']Why even quote my post if you're just gonna invent my position even though its clearly stated?

And for the record the Patriots have been rebuilding for the last 4 years

Right....

The excuse that the Pat's or any other team have an entrenched QB so it's ok to get a backup is just not rational, every team regardless of starter ability needs the best backup they can find, why?

did you read my post at all? You realize that I agree with this right?

if you still want interceptasaurus Rex running the offense if something happens to RG3 who will be running his first year until he settles into the offense and learns NFL defenses then fine, but if your tired of watching Rex's futility then be very glad we have moved in a direction to see that doesn't have to happen again.

yeah because clearly I'm Wrecks biggest fan.

You talk about having a good back-up QB but who do you think is gonna be the better back-up next year? Cousins or Rex?

Mentally Cousins is the quickest decision maker in the draft, how you have already decieded he's a bust I can't remotly quantify.

Why do I bother debating with people who are bent on inventing or fabricating my view despite the fact that its clearly stated?

Where have I called or suggested that Cousins will be a bust?

[Mr. Sinister]

Yeah, that's another thing that I don't get. The "Impact Player" argument. I'd really like to know what "Impact Player" some people had in mind, in place of Cousins, who could compete, and "Make an impact!" right off the bat.

[2cents]

People just can't handle unconventional out of the box thinking.

[SWFLSkins]

Hitman hit it!!! Rock on, my man. BTW, what were you thinking would be good lotto numbers???

He did say fifth round, what are you going to subtract a number for each one he gives you? hahahaa

[Bang]

Yeah, that's another thing that I don't get. The "Impact Player" argument. I'd really like to know what "Impact Player" some people had in mind, in place of of Cousins, who could compete, and "Make an imapct!" right off the bat.

Come on man. Everyone knows the fourth round is where all the starters are.

If you can't draft an all-pro in the 4th, you simply aren't doing your job.

~Bang

[TMat184]

Cousins is a great value in round 4. We only have Rex under contract for one more year and we know what we've got in him. Kirk Cousins has intangibles through the roof and showed the ability to lead teams back and flourish under pressure. Makes for a damn good 4th round pick IMO.

[Taylor 36]

He did say fifth round, what are you going to subtract a number for each one he gives you? hahahaa

Nah, just from every number divisible by five! :pfft:

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

A few examples Jumbo who went in the fourth after the Cousins pick at 102:

The Steelers took Alaneda Ta'amu at 109. The same Steelers who run the same D as ours take their NT for the next ten years. Not a desperate position of need, but a starter right there.

RGIII's center at Baylor Philip Blake went at 108 to Denver. A massive position of need, sweetened somewhat by the UFA pick-up but still relative.

Bobby Massie went at 112 to Arizona. Quality starting RT. another major area of concern, again sweetened by Compton, but all relative.

Corners, a serious area of need: We could of tried to trade up one spot with Denver for Omar Bolden. Coty Sensabaugh went at 115 to TN. Brandon Boykin at 123 to Philly. Btooks a pick after to Buffalo. We picked up two 7th round corners, but their chances of having an effect are obviously less than these. (Although Minnifield was a steal undrafted potentially.).

James-Michael Johnson at ILB.

All guys who could well of contributed greatly, if not potentially started this year.

Hail.

[SWFLSkins]

I am finding the Cousins pick interesting in that it's serving as another kind of half-assed litmus test.

Most of the posters I see energetically upset about the pick are either using rather unintelligent to outright stupid arguments (whether worded well or poorly) and some are also among the people I tend to not think much of football-opinion-wise anyway.

It gives me that sense many of us get I imagine under similar circumstance--the one of when noting someone whose posts you usually don't think much of, take an opposing side to you, it confirms you must be on the right track. :pfft:

I think people who really want to make a solid case the pick was such an obviously bad move should name the player that was available that they think should have taken, then argue the likely value of that guy at that position vs. who's currently on the team against the idea of Cousins @ QB, and then compare the two choices. That would be the proper way to make that argument, and then see if it passes muster as "better thinking than what the FO showed."

It's fairly easy to make a case for the pick, shocking as though that must read to some of the critics. It wasn't my choice at the time, but I quickly saw the value to it, especially after getting deeper into the info on Cousins.

In tournament chess there's a term called "potzers"--. And much of it is the work of potzers.

I tend to think we are all potzers or posers when it comes to football. Everyone at one time or another can have a real sustainable thought about the game at this level, however to do so consistently, even beyond the media is best left to the professionals. I trust Mike Shanahan more than myself. He has a track record, I am a broken record.

Your point though valid has already been asked by more than just myself even if I did so with complete sarcasm.

EDIT- GHH has added a list of some of the guys I thought we should have taken at the Cousins pick, however just because I liked them and would have taken them, it is obvious Shanahan did not otherwise they get picked.

WHO is this impact or can't miss prospect that filled a need better than Cousins? I have not see a name yet. And they could, just like they wanted the front office to do when drafting, just throw one out there and hope to get lucky. And then say Nana, nana b00-b00 while pumping their fists. However what occurred was Men who play the game for a living made a calculated move, not hoping to get lucky, but working and striving toward a goal of winning. Just like Chess, making moves for down the road to offset counter moves. Trying to anticipate all scenarios having been set back because of experience int hat same scenario just last year.

I am sure Mike and Kyle spent countless hours watching QB film and said "Never Again", never again will I gamble on a McNabb, a Grossman or a Beck. I liked what I saw until I actually saw it, and I am not ever going to see it again. I can't imagine going into war hoping to get lucky.

[Est.1974]

A few examples Jumbo who went in the fourth after the Cousins pick at 102:

Those aren't great example GHH.

We've got Cofield signed up for 5 more years at NT, we drafted two guys who Shanny wanted who can cover C, Shanahan wanted Compton, plus we drafted an ILB in the 4th.

CB was a need for me, but with Wilson & Hall as starters, Shanahan has already said 2013 is more than likely deep at CB in the draft.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Oh, no question SWFL. He obviously didn't above the guy he did pick.

But it doesn't necessarily make it the right move and not worth debating.

Hail.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Seems like some of the same people arguing that we failed last draft because we didn't take a QB are the same one saying it was a bad move to take Cousins.

[Braxford]

There were a lot of other solid players available in the 4th that the Skins could have picked up that can contribute. Cousins can contribute as well If RG goes down this year where does that leaves the Skins with Sexy Rexy. We know what we get with him, he plays hard, knows the offense and throws picks. Rex can't consistently get it done as a starter, even though he is a fighter. Beck....probably a nice guy but you want him holding a clipboard instead of a football. Both Cousins and RG3 are young, talented, and natural leaders. Cousins at least is a young talented QB who will learn the offense and push RG3. If RG3 manages to go down then we can have a quality young backup who knows the offense to come in and step up. The Cousins pick was all about getting young talented depth at the most important position in football.