We need to draft 2 QBs

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Value's all relative IHOP.

Value of a player that could well contribute over one that may never. Value of having a better perceived talent over a lesser talent in that position of the guy that may never contribute.

I like Cousins. I like his work ethic and his attitude. And he's got a pretty darn good arm. But he made a lot of mental mistakes with the ball through his time at Michigan for me to to either consider him a second round talent; or a luxury that we can ill afford at this stage of our rebuild.

No problem with the player or pick under normal circumstances, I do however in our current situation.

But we can continue to go around and around and around and back again on this. It's getting us nowhere and the picks been made, whether we agree with it or not.

Hail.

[Hubbs]

This seems to me to be a textbook "Plan B" move.

Look, we're all in love with RG3 and rightly so. I was telling my friends that he's the best prospect I've ever seen, a better prospect than even Andrew Luck, before we traded for the second pick. But there's no such thing as a can't-miss player. There just isn't. So while I would have loved to use the Cousins pick on another lineman, or maybe a safety, I can't sit here and argue that it's a bad idea for the Shannies to grab a mid-round quarterback who they really like and who could theoretically step in after a couple of years of learning the system on the bench if the worst-case scenario happens and RG3 just isn't working. That's actually where I see the most value in this pick. Yes, there's also the "strong backup" factor for if/when Griff gets injured and we need someone to step in for a month, and yes, there's the "trade him for a second rounder in three years" factor if we manage to turn him into a net profit in value. But I really do think that the most important reason we shouldn't be upset about drafting Cousins is his potential to be our Plan B quarterback.

[Pedro]

Why are people posting like the name of the QB doesn't matter?

Last year we could have had Gabbert at 10, yet we didn't even though starter quality QB was a known need. This year we could have me as the back up QB without need to spend a draft pick, yet we didn't even though back up QB was a known need.

We didn't draft a QB in the 4th, we drafted Kirk Cousins, QB.

Some of the other options available and being touted in this thread were:

OLB - even though we have starters and depth

NT - even though we have starter and depth

Small CB - even though we have those and need some size at the position to combat all the big WRs in the East/NFL these days

An OL with slow feet who will not make it in our ZBS

None of those are as important as back up QB, nor as needy given we already know the production level of Rex/John isn't good enough.

Our squad is not so poor that a 4th round pick can be expected to be a starter year one. Year two and we'll laugh about this....

[IrepDC]

My issue with this pick still remains after a day of thought. Any other team in the league would have been drafting to build around their young QB. The Colts, the Dolphins, and the Rams all were. Only the Redskins, with limited picks, go out and draft another QB. With our 3rd selection in the draft- QB, OG, QB. There were many players still on the board that could have helped RG3. The past two years we got Perry Riley and Roy Helu in the 4th round so don't tell me that round doesn't have value.

Why are we reinventing the wheel? This is not how you build around a young QB. Every other example of a team drafting backups came after the starting QB was established on the team. We are the first team to ever do this foolishness. The only other team to ever draft 2 QB's in the top 4 rounds was Green Bay in '89, and those were 3rd and 4th round picks. Matt Ryan drafted; his team's building around him. Sam Bradford drafted; his team's building around him. Cam Newton drafted; his team's building around him. Every other QB in the history of the league drafted with a top 10 pick; their team is using as many assets as possible to build around him.

Robert Griffin is drafted; we're taking out an "insurance policy" two picks later.

[Mr. Sinister]

Dude, we drafted 3 offensive lineman, some with starter potential, and all three will provide (much needed) depth, with Williams anchoring the line. We signed 2 pretty good receivers in FA, have Hankerson coming back, we have one of the better young TE's in the league, and a nice RB committee thing going on. How are we not building around our quarterback?

[darrelgreenie]

Agreed. No, Cousins doesn't help us in the short term (meaning this year). It is clearly a pick that will help us down the road, which is what you need in a draft. Not all of the players are going to help you immediately. Backup QB is a necessity.

I agree that every championship contending team needs a viable back-up.

And like you said Cousins doesn't help us this year.

As much as I dislike the idea of Rex being the back-up, he's well liked and has a knowledge of the offense that Cousins won't eclipse in one offseason. (but we can hope c'mon Kirk)

But if Cousins doesn't help us this year because Rex is the better back-up then we used a valueable 4th round pick this year to address a future problem.

In essence it was a drafting for a need, albiet a future need.

I don't see the benefit in addressing a future problem with immediate resources when there are areas that represent both an immediate benefit and long term benefit.

The standing argument seems to be 'well Cousins was the BPA'.

And obviously this is true because we drafted him; if Cousins wasn't the BPA on our board then we wouldn't have drafted him.

And the fact that we drafted Cousins in and of itself is something to take solace in.

Unlike the reaction to my posts, I have nothing against Cousins as a prospect.

Its part of a double edged sword because our scouting department tends do good job in the middle to late rounds.

The flip side of that sword suggests that they may have made a good pick at another position.

And adding talent at another position is more valueable to our franchise QB and the team as a whole.

Their mid-late round drafting success also suggest that they may have been able to find another QB in the later rounds.(recent QB decisions prior to this draft excluded of course McNabb, Wrecks, Beck)

But, the real question can only be answered in time: whether they were right to value Cousins higher then some of the other players available.(I've already mentioned some of those players in my earlier post)

-Hail

[IrepDC]

Dude, we drafted 3 offensive lineman, some with starter potential, and all three will provide (much needed) depth, with Williams anchoring the line. We signed 2 pretty good receivers in FA, have Hankerson coming back, we have one of the better young TE's in the league, and a nice RB committee thing going on. How are we not building around our quarterback?

We're not going about it the right way is what I meant. We should be using every asset possible to build around him. Especially our 3rd selection in the draft.

[Mr. Sinister]

Yeah, dg, maybe we could've found a really good player in the 4th besides QB, but I think that when you have a guy like Cousins sitting there when you expected him to be gone long ago, that's just something you gotta do.

Maybe we make up for the lost potential diamond in the rough non-qb in UDFA, with a guy like Minnefield, or maybe we make up for it in next years draft, with the 2nd rounder, who knows.

[communion5]

some of you guys are nit picking too much, this is a good pick up. he's a captain...a good player, and a steal in round four. step out of the dark redskins hope cave you've been in, and realize that the redskins are actually doing a good job building this team....i for one, will go on record, and guess that we are going to NEED cousins before all is said in done......HAIL.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

This debate is just gona' go around and around in circles. And there's plenty of merit to both sides of it. I still think it was a ridiculous luxury in our position, but regardless, we aren't getting it back.

I just hope Kirk Cousins never see's the field of play as a Redskins QB, save for maybe garbage time in a big win or a rest of RGIII in view of a coming playoff game. Nothing against Cousins, but we need our franchise guy to be a 16 game a season guy.

Hail.

[communion5]

oh and mr. sinister, love yr sig, you ever hear the bruce springsteen version of that song "the ghost of tom joad" its a classic.

[Mr. Sinister]

We also play in the NFC East, with a lot of ferocious pass rushers, and I already know that no matter how good our line is, RGll is going to take some shots this year, and throughout his career, that's just the way it is in our division. I think that before we either release/trade/or resign Cousins after hi scontract is up, he will have at least started one game for us.

---------- Post added April-29th-2012 at 04:21 PM ----------

oh and mr. sinister, love yr sig, you ever hear the bruce springsteen version of that song "the ghost of tom joad" its a classic.

Yeah

When I chose it, I was halfway expecting some of the older cats to hit me with a "You young punks are so preoccupied with yer Facebooks and ipads, that you don't even realize who did the original! Back in my day we payed homage to the people who came before us!" lines.

I've listened to both versions, and they are both great in their own way.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Oh, the East is brutal. We know this only too well. But Griffins a heck of a lot stronger dude than many give him credit for. And he's also more than willing to add more bulk as we know. After the ACL tear in '09, he's not missed a Baylor down the last two season's right?

Hail.

[Jumbo]

I think darrelgreenie makes reasonable points here, and that part of the valid argument is whether Shanny & Co.'s obvious belief that it's a need, whether immediate or not (and that too fairly debatable from "both sides" I'd say) that is unlikely to be as well-addressed as in the here and now with Cousins vs. the other needs and other possible solutions there. They feel the scale tips to Cousins now. As I said initially, it's not the pick I would have made. Cousins wasn't on my list of 5 or 6 either. But I contend that shows more about my weakness at pro draft ability than the FO's, especially after much further review. It's not a huge "win" on the FO's end in my mind, but I can sure see it, and a bit grudgingly (my ego ) agree.

People mistake what I argue at times, and there's a good reason for that---I usually argue against those not showing intelligent thinking but being very "loud" or "sure" in their posting (and this, logically if you know the behavioral turf and the mb venue, occurs most often in disagreement with a team move) and that same claimed (by me) lack of intelligence, even if it's just "in the moment", will often carry over to reading comprehension (reacting more then responding) and into any further argument...for awhile at least.

It's often just reflective of the difference between emotionally and ego-driven discussion vs. more detached and analytical discussion. We have some pretty reactive posters with fairly minimal football savvy if any high standard is used to be blunt (certainly a common trait on the internet with any discussion site of any type) and some who are pretty smart but still seriously over-value their level of expertise. That's a lot of ego.

I am biased and, to reframe what [[ghost]] got scolded for calling me, I am a "spokesman" I guess, however unintentional. But what I am biased against is "loud and dumb" or arrogance-plus-ignorance, or spazzing/flailing/spewing crapola, and guess I am a spokesman (I'd say "advocate") for thinking and reading carefully and being aware of my level of ability vs others with a healthy mix of self-confidence and humility and a default willingness to examine my previous conclusions with little ego-investment and much more about knowing as much as I possibly can.

[Mr. Sinister]

Oh, the East is brutal. We know this only too well. But Griffins a heck of a lot stronger dude than many give him credit for. And he's also more than willing to add more bulk as we know. After the ACL tear in '09, he's not missed a Baylor down the last two season's right?

Hail.

Yeah I don't think so. He is a pretty big dude, but there is just a littany of atom smashers in this division, with Cox being the newest one. Better to be safe and secure, than to be sorry.

[IrepDC]

It'll be something to watch during cut time, because we'll likely be carrying 3 QBs now this year so probably a WR or RB slot lost from last year.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

It'll be something to watch during cut time, because we'll likely be carrying 3 QBs now this year so probably a WR or RB slot lost from last year.

No question.

There's no way a valuable fourth will go on Cousins for him to be stashed on the PS. The 3rd stringer will be part of the 53 this year. Just not dressed for games in all probability.

Hail.

[SkinsFTW]

I think its great that they drafted 2 QB's. It shows that the coaches think that we don't need depth at another position more than at QB and I'd personally be all for them drafting 2 QB's every year until they found a franchise QB. I remember saying that back in 04 or 05 on here. If QB is really that important then why just draft 1 and then possibly watch him fail like Shuler or later Ramsey and Campbell or get injured and miss a season or 2 like Stafford?

This guy could be the next Tom Brady as far as anyone knows. Didn't he have similar negatives?

[ArmchairRedskin]

Oh, the East is brutal. We know this only too well. But Griffins a heck of a lot stronger dude than many give him credit for. And he's also more than willing to add more bulk as we know. After the ACL tear in '09, he's not missed a Baylor down the last two season's right?

Hail.

That's not entirely true. During the Texas Tech game he got nailed in the head as he was trying to slide and missed the second half. He hasn't been out for any other reason, though.

[prufRock]

My issue with this pick still remains after a day of thought. Any other team in the league would have been drafting to build around their young QB. The Colts, the Dolphins, and the Rams all were. Only the Redskins, with limited picks, go out and draft another QB. With our 3rd selection in the draft- QB, OG, QB. There were many players still on the board that could have helped RG3. The past two years we got Perry Riley and Roy Helu in the 4th round so don't tell me that round doesn't have value.

Why are we reinventing the wheel? This is not how you build around a young QB. Every other example of a team drafting backups came after the starting QB was established on the team. We are the first team to ever do this foolishness. The only other team to ever draft 2 QB's in the top 4 rounds was Green Bay in '89, and those were 3rd and 4th round picks. Matt Ryan drafted; his team's building around him. Sam Bradford drafted; his team's building around him. Cam Newton drafted; his team's building around him. Every other QB in the history of the league drafted with a top 10 pick; their team is using as many assets as possible to build around him.

Robert Griffin is drafted; we're taking out an "insurance policy" two picks later.

I fully agree. Just because backup QBs are important, that doesn't automatically justify the pick as a solid move at this time.

[Guest Spearfeather]

I like the pick.

Gives us depth at a position that has been holding us back for years.

If Griffin111 is as good as we all think he could be, then there will be a major gap between our starter and Grossman, should Griffin111 go down with an injury. If Cousins earns the backup role, then we've shortened that gap.

[joeknows]

stupidest pick EVER..... hope im wrong

---------- Post added April-29th-2012 at 04:11 PM ----------

That's not entirely true. During the Texas Tech game he got nailed in the head as he was trying to slide and missed the second half. He hasn't been out for any other reason, though.

ummmm ... i thought he came back like 2 plays later and made them pay for it with a touchdown?

im gonna double check but i saw those highlights recently....

yeah i was right.......

NOOO you were right actually he came back but then stayed out in the second half.... my bad....

[Mr. Sinister]

I'm done...

[ArmchairRedskin]

Here you go

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=313300239

ARLINGTON, Texas -- Robert Griffin III stood on the sideline after halftime holding a towel and watching, the Heisman Trophy hopeful done for the night because of an apparent concussion.

Though Griffin wanted to play, Baylor medical officials took away his helmet before the second half against Texas Tech.

I watched that game. People were questioning whether Florence was just as good because he put up some nice numbers.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

This guy could be the next Tom Brady as far as anyone knows. Didn't he have similar negatives?

Let's hope he will turn out to be a success and make any debate over the pick look ridiculous.

It hasn't been lost on me the amount of folk that are already taking it as a given he's a second round talent that will transcend to the pros. When he was a very talented, but far from stellar, collegiate QB.

---------- Post added April-29th-2012 at 04:22 PM ----------

That's not entirely true. During the Texas Tech game he got nailed in the head as he was trying to slide and missed the second half. He hasn't been out for any other reason, though.

Thanks man, Appreciated.

Hail.