We need to draft 2 QBs

[tiger187126]

It probably wasn't considered a great move at the time.

it was not. i believe it made the top 10 qb controversies on NFLN.

[rookieskin]

I really wish people would take the time to find out who Kirk Cousins is beyond the Michigan State QB before they start talking about " how he should act, or feel, or behave or what he's thinking." Comments like "he needs to shut up." do him a disservice.

All you have to do is read his comments after being selected to start and get a picture of what kind of player and teammate RGIII and the Redskins are getting.

Take some time and look it up and see. I know it's a lot easier to start blasting and have knee jerk reactions but if you don't know the man then you're comments lose validity because they don't apply to him as a person.

Cousins makes this team and RGIII better just by being on the team. What he brings may not show up in the game day stats, but it will on the practice field, the locker room, in the weight room and during the quarterback meetings and film room.

My initial reaction was shock because it isn't something you would expect a team to do. It's so out of the box that you can't help but have a hard time wrapping your head around it but then the shock wore off I just started laughing because Mike is a genius.

I was pumped to get RGIII but getting Cousins as well just has me giddy because what he'll bring to this team.

Check out the man and come back and tell me what you think.

:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

[HogNose]

I really wish people would take the time to find out who Kirk Cousins is beyond the Michigan State QB before they start talking about " how he should act, or feel, or behave or what he's thinking." Comments like "he needs to shut up." do him a disservice.

All you have to do is read his comments after being selected to start and get a picture of what kind of player and teammate RGIII and the Redskins are getting.

Take some time and look it up and see. I know it's a lot easier to start blasting and have knee jerk reactions but if you don't know the man then you're comments lose validity because they don't apply to him as a person.

Cousins makes this team and RGIII better just by being on the team. What he brings may not show up in the game day stats, but it will on the practice field, the locker room, in the weight room and during the quarterback meetings and film room.

My initial reaction was shock because it isn't something you would expect a team to do. It's so out of the box that you can't help but have a hard time wrapping your head around it but then the shock wore off I just started laughing because Mike is a genius.

I was pumped to get RGIII but getting Cousins as well just has me giddy because what he'll bring to this team.

Check out the man and come back and tell me what you think.

Well said. :applause: Can you post this in the Cousins thread also.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

A great locker room guy who (hopefully) will never see the field outside of pre-season over a guy who could of contributed from the get-go, if not started, in the fourth round; justify's this move as much as any other I've heard of read the past18 hours or so, None at all to me.

The one black mark in what is a pretty healthy looking draft in the main.

Hail.

[FSUSkins24]

I really wish people would take the time to find out who Kirk Cousins is beyond the Michigan State QB before they start talking about " how he should act, or feel, or behave or what he's thinking." Comments like "he needs to shut up." do him a disservice.

All you have to do is read his comments after being selected to start and get a picture of what kind of player and teammate RGIII and the Redskins are getting.

Take some time and look it up and see. I know it's a lot easier to start blasting and have knee jerk reactions but if you don't know the man then you're comments lose validity because they don't apply to him as a person.

If this is in response to me saying he needs to know his role and shut his mouth, you may not have entirely understood what I meant by that. I also may not have phrased it in the appropriate way.

One of the previous posters was commenting on how it might affect RG3 negatively to have another guy competing with him, and how it might cause confusion, and so on and so forth. He then went on to say that mediots were saying it would be tough for a guy like Cousins to come in and be the "quiet, non-threatening backup QB." To that I said "He's going to need to know his role and shut his mouth." Not so much indicating that he had opened his mouth on the topic, or that he'd voiced displeasure over being a backup, just responding with what would need to happen in the case that the mediots were right and he had a tough time being the "quiet, non-threatening backup QB." I personally don't think it will happen.

On all accounts I believe that this situation is a non-story, and we got ourselves a wonderful and capable backup.

To the people saying that it would be a non-story if the Patriots or Eagles did it are exactly right, but the media needs something to talk about! They've got air time to fill!

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

This would be a major story for ANY team who'd just paid the price RGIII cost.

This isn't Redskins/ media specific.

Hail.

[darrelgreenie]

A rebuilding team drafts prospects with the expectation that they contribute on the field (offense, defense, special teams) as soon as possible and eventually become starters.

Its undeniable that we could have used that 4th round pick to address other positions.

Our scouting department has success in finding mid-late round talent.

Its likely that we could have found a conributing player (if not a starter) with that pick.

I got nothing against drafting a back-up QB, however I have issue with the prioritization for a rebuilding team to draft a back-up QB with the 4th pick.

Drafting Cousins with the 4th pick goes against the basic philosophy of drafting:

o Cousins cannot help your team nor your franchise QB in year 1 because Grossman knows the offense better then he does

o Unlike other draft picks you actually hope that Cousins never plays

[zoony]

Drafting Cousins with the 4th pick goes against the basic philosophy of drafting:

No matter how many times you want to post the same thing, you're still wrong.

Smart teams take BPA as a rule, and that is especially exaggerated for the later rounds. If you've got a guy sitting there in the fourth that you had rated as a second round talent, you take him

But by all means, continue on with the drama about what is separating us from a championship is us not taking a DB in the fourth round. Trust me, we all think you're real smart.

[Chump Bailey]

I got nothing against drafting a back-up QB, however I have issue with the prioritization for a rebuilding team to draft a back-up QB with the 4th pick.

I agree with this. We could have landed a good CB prospect.

Perhaps Cousins will have some trade value in the future, which we could use to get back some draft ammo.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Think about this for a second: No other position in the NFL moves the Vegas line more than 1 point besides QB. Not a Revis, not a Ray Lewis, not a Calvin Johnson or a Demarcus Ware. None of them have as big an effect on the game as the starting QB. If you lose your starting QB, your chances of winning decrease dramatically. That's why you should have a good backup. To mitigate that factor as best you can. If we're fighting for the division and Griff is out for two games for whatever reason (last year Grossman was really sick) you want to be able to win those games. Grossman isn't the guy you want to come in. Hopefully Kirk can be that guy. That's why we drafted him. Excellent value for what could be a really critical position if the starter goes down.

[darrelgreenie]

Wasn't it just last year that the Patriots drafted Ryan Mallet in the fourth round when the still had massive needs at receiver and all over the defense? All you kept hearing was about "The Hooded Mastermind striking again." Most of the "analysts" and "experts" on ESPN use more emotion than logic to dictate their opinion. The "feel" like it was a bad idea. The facts are

- The likelihood of any 4th round pick sticking with the team and making an impact are minimal. Cousins will be our 3rd QB come training camp and will duke it out with Grossman as backup by then end of the year. If RG3 gets injured in the next 2-3 years and Cousins steps in for a few games and does well, we can easlily get a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him.

This is a gamble like any draft pick. The redskins just saw a player on their board valued much higher than the pick and took him.

o The Patriots are not a rebuilding team; Teams with their Win/Loss record do not have 'massive' needs as you suggest. The Patriots were in essence drafting for pure value which is a luxury good teams can afford and re-building teams cannot

o The Patriots already have an entrenched starting QB

o Mallett had 1st round talent and projects as a starting QB

o Bellichicks track record with QB is much better then Mike/Kyle Shanahans recent track record

o The likelihood that a 4th rounder becomes a starter is 25% I heard that during one of the broadcasts,

(a) therefore the odds of 4th rounder contributing in some way are even higher

( specific to this draft there were players available that were taking by other teams (better teams) that are viewed as potential contributing players if not starters e.g. Alameda Ta'amu (Steelers) Brandon Boykins (Eagles) Joe Adams, Phillip Blake, Devon Wylie, Ladarius Green, Bobby Massie, Coty Sensabaugh etc

o Lets assume like you suggest that Cousins becomes the back-up by next season: he still provides no help to the team this year vs the other players that could have contributed this year

(a)for Cousins to come close to justifying the pick this year he would have to win the back-up job outright like Tyrod Taylor did last year for the Ravens

o If Cousins does actually see the field at some point for whatever reason and plays he has to play very well expecting that kind of production is a huge specualtion in and of itself

And keep in mind we drafted Cousins with a 4th round pick, its a long shot to expect some team to jump on Cousins with a high round draft pick with a limited body of work especially after the Kevin Kolb cautionary tail fresh in their collective minds

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I agree with this. We could have landed a good CB prospect.

Perhaps Cousins will have some trade value in the future, which we could use to get back some draft ammo.

But what trade value justify's a 4th rounder who won't contribute? All things being equal, he won't see any playing time outside of pre-season. And he was far from a stellar collegiate QB to start with. A lot of quality, but very inconsistent.

Honestly haven't seen one compelling argument that justify's this pick for this team.

Hail.

[Boston Skins]

I don't think there was anything wrong with picking Cousins where they did in the fourth round:

1) If you draft in the fourth round or later based purely on need, you're bound to reach on someone or draft a player that does not fit into the mold of your system. Teams get into major trouble when this occurs.

2) We all know that probably one of Griffin's greatest weaknesses is that he is not afraid to put his body on the line. While I love it and think we could use that attitude and ethic on this team, the potential for injury is out there. Why not draft another QB to develop alongside RG3 to offset risk? Cousins was not brought in here to be a rally cry for fans when RG3 and the offense gets off to a slow start. I can promise you that.

3) I'm so happy to see this front office drafting the right way. What are all these nay-sayers going to say when we trade Cousins to a QB-needy team down the road for some quality picks? Shanhan and Allen know football and how to build VALUE through the draft. You don't.

[Burgold]

A rebuilding team drafts prospects with the expectation that they contribute on the field (offense, defense, special teams) as soon as possible and eventually become starters.

During the Cerato years, the Redskins had a great first string on both sides of the ball. We were paper champions every year, pundits and analysts loved to pick us.

However, we were paper thin. One o-lineman goes down and we have to scour off the street free agenst. One running back goes down, we need to trade and again suffer. Injuries are a part of the league. Good teams have depth. The year the Packers won the Superbowl, something like 17 of their players went down to injury and they were still able to be an elite team.

Depth at every position is important now and in the future. Do you really want our D practicing plays against a qb who can't play? More, as others have said, drafting Cousins not only is a value pick, but saves us about 900,000 off the cap. That's going to be the difference between his and Beck's number. Now, if you don't think a million bucks matters after the NFL screwed us out of 18 million this year, I don't know what to tell you.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'm so happy to see this front office drafting the right way. What are all these nay-sayers going to say when we trade Cousins to a QB-needy team down the road for some quality picks? Shanhan and Allen know football and how to build VALUE through the draft. You don't.

Just what greater value than a fourth do you honestly expect on a guy that wasn't top bracket in college, and who hopefully won't see a down on the field for this team in the pro's outside of exhibition games? Unless Cerrato get's hired by a team or Crazy Al is reincarnated chances are it's a flight of fancy to think we're gona' recoup a high pick down the line.

Hail.

[Boston Skins]

Just what greater value than a fourth do you honestly expect on a guy that wasn't top bracket in college, and who hopefully won't see a down on the field for this team in the pro's outside of exhibition games? Unless Cerrato get's hired by a team or Crazy Al is reincarnated chances are it's a flight of fancy to think we're gona' recoup a high pick down the line.

Hail.

Would you agree that "hopefully" a couple years down the road, there will be garbage time in games for the Skins where they have such a huge lead that there's just no need for the starters to be out there? What about garbage games as a whole?

That's how Cousin's value will be built. If RG3 gets hurt, and Cousins tears it up, value is built. See Kevin Kolb. See Matt Flynn (though not traded).

As I said, if there was no corner there in the fourth that Shanahan truly wanted, he's not gonna take him. And how can you be upset with that? That would truly be a wasted pick, IMO.

[PeterKingsIllegitimateKid]

Wasn't it just last year that the Patriots drafted Ryan Mallet in the fourth round when the still had massive needs at receiver and all over the defense? All you kept hearing was about "The Hooded Mastermind striking again." Most of the "analysts" and "experts" on ESPN use more emotion than logic to dictate their opinion. The "feel" like it was a bad idea. The facts are

- The likelihood of any 4th round pick sticking with the team and making an impact are minimal. Cousins will be our 3rd QB come training camp and will duke it out with Grossman as backup by then end of the year. If RG3 gets injured in the next 2-3 years and Cousins steps in for a few games and does well, we can easlily get a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him.

This is a gamble like any draft pick. The redskins just saw a player on their board valued much higher than the pick and took him.

I mostly agree with this standpoint. The only important thing to note is that Mallett had a low first round grade (as opposed to a 2nd-3rd for Cousins), and that Brady is 35 years old. The comparison of Mallett to Cousins has merit, but the key point (which you mentioned) is that the Best Player Available strategy doesn't just mean everywhere else but QB.

Besides, too many people see Kiper and Mayocks "top available" and go into convulsions when we pass on a guy on their lists.

Drafts cannot be fully evaluated for three years, at least. I am confident that in three years, we'll look at that pick and be very happy to have one franchise QB and a competent backup that can win ballgames if needed.

[darrelgreenie]

No matter how many times you want to post the same thing, you're still wrong.

Smart teams take BPA as a rule, and that is especially exaggerated for the later rounds. If you've got a guy sitting there in the fourth that you had rated as a second round talent, you take him

That's a heck of way to approach a discussion...um well..you're wrong, lol

Anyway what am I wrong about?

Because your assumption that I support drafting for need simply isn't true, most in the draft thread can atest to that.

And the position that teams should draft BPA as a rule is a myth that results in a collection of talent rather then building a team.

Clearly even teams that draft BPA have parameters that prevent redundancy, this is something I'm sure most people understand.

Not to mention that the QB position is unlike any other position in football that often goes against established drafting rules.

But by all means, continue on with the drama about what is separating us from a championship is us not taking a DB in the fourth round.

Wow ^^this a complete fabrication of my point, kudos

-Hail

[SWFLSkins]

But what trade value justify's a 4th rounder who won't contribute? All things being equal, he won't see any playing time outside of pre-season. And he was far from a stellar collegiate QB to start with. A lot of quality, but very inconsistent.

Honestly haven't seen one compelling argument that justify's this pick for this team.

Hail.

Here's your argument, Redskins make the playoffs and in the fourth quarter while down 10 points RG3 gets a concussion and in trots Rex Grossman. (end of game) or in trots Cousins and you got a chance, now was he worth that pick? of course. DG keeps saying the team is in re-building mode, I disagree. Last year QB play alone held this team back four to five games by itself. Think about it, we all hoped somehow BECK could step in for Grossman who stunk and suddenly energize the team. Cousins was an insurance policy on a very expensive part of the team. The insurance is not if Griff does not perform, the insurance is if he gets hurt.

---------- Post added April-29th-2012 at 10:34 AM ----------

Would you agree that "hopefully" a couple years down the road, there will be garbage time in games for the Skins where they have such a huge lead that there's just no need for the starters to be out there? What about garbage games as a whole?

That's how Cousin's value will be built. If RG3 gets hurt, and Cousins tears it up, value is built. See Kevin Kolb. See Matt Flynn (though not traded).

As I said, if there was no corner there in the fourth that Shanahan truly wanted, he's not gonna take him. And how can you be upset with that? That would truly be a wasted pick, IMO.

And he got the OL and the corners he wanted anyway. He is only looking for depth at those spots not starters. Apparently starting corners and OL drafted there are commonplace to listen to some posters here.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I think Kolb's made many a team cautious of given up a lot for totally unproven guys who've had a game or two here and there. Same with Cassell to a lesser extent.

And given it'll probably be 2013 before he's the number 2, even that doesn't justify a 4th for this team in the rebuild we're in for me. Had he been a later round back-up/ project I could understand the reasoning. But he wasn't.

I've nothing against Cousins FWIW. I think he could develop into a reliable back-up. But the position he went was a luxury this team shouldn't of been making for me. Even less so after all we gave up on the starter.

Hail.

[darrelgreenie]

Depth at every position is important now and in the future.

The irony of your post is there is more depth at QB (RGIII and Grossman) then there is at countless other positions on the team.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Here's your argument, Redskins make the playoffs and in the fourth quarter while down 10 points RG3 gets a concussion and in trots Rex Grossman. (end of game) or in trots Cousins and you got a chance, now was he worth that pick? of course. DG keeps saying the team is in re-building mode, I disagree. Last year QB play alone held this team back four to five games by itself. Think about it, we all hoped somehow BECK could step in for Grossman who stunk and suddenly energize the team. Cousins was an insurance policy on a very expensive part of the team. The insurance is not if Griff does not perform, the insurance is if he gets hurt.

Does anyone honestly NOT see Interceptus Rexus as the back-up this year bar Cousins hitting the ground running and wowing them in the exhibition games? With Rex being a favorite of Kyle's, down to at the least knowing the system, I'll wager good money Cousin's will do well to be activated for a game this year.

Hail.

[SWFLSkins]

Does anyone honestly NOT see Interceptus Rexus as the back-up this year bar Cousins hitting the ground running and wowing them in the exhibition games? With Rex being a favorite of Kyle's, down to at the least knowing the system, I'll wager good money Cousin's will do well to be activated for a game this year.

Hail.

(TIC, firmly) So you see the Redskins making the playoffs this year, I was speaking about the following year.

---------- Post added April-29th-2012 at 10:40 AM ----------

The irony of your post is there is more depth at QB (RGIII and Grossman) then there is at countless other positions on the team.

The Irony of your post is that Rex Grossman is reliable depth.

[Burgold]

The irony of your post is there is more depth at QB (RGIII and Grossman) then there is at countless other positions on the team.

True enough, but depth at every position is important. Including QB. And sadly, we need the million dollars we save by cutting Beck. So with Cousins we save a million bucks and upgrade a position. (Mind you, I'm confused by the pick, but since I do believe in BPA I just am not arguing against it)

My view is the top two rounds should be instant starters. 3rd and 4th round you hope to get an eventual starter, but you're already thinking about depth and the future. Relatively few fourth rounders are rookie starters. Most contribute on special teams or are back ups/reserves.

[Boston Skins]

And he got the OL and the corners he wanted anyway. He is only looking for depth at those spots not starters. Apparently starting corners and OL drafted there are commonplace to listen to some posters here.

EXACTLY. We got our guys. Some we didn't even have to "waste" picks on! So what's all the fuss about?