Kilmer17 Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Did they play head to head? Could go with the winner. Or who had the most wins against other teams with the best records. They played once. Team B won. But Team A had a harder schedule and beat better teams. Team A beat the 2nd place team the only time they played and 3rd place team twice. Team B played the last place and 2nd to last place team twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 The winner of the head to head game. If that doesn't decide flip a coin. The 3 points for a win, one for a tie, approach was introduced to reward more attacking play in soccer. That's hardly a factor in baseball so I wouldn't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 It all comes down to the set of tie-breakers. If y'all didn't have an accepted set of tie-breakers ahead of time, there are two ways to go about solving it, in my opinion. Play a tie-breaking game. Winner gets the better record. OR... flip a coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think the fairest thing to do would either use head to head to break the tie, or a coin flip. Then for next season have set rules for a tiebreak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think the board is going to rule for team B. But I was hoping to be able to show some difinitive evidence that MATHMATICALLY Team A had a better record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think the fairest thing to do would either use head to head to break the tie, or a coin flip. Then for next season have set rules for a tiebreak. Yep, if ya are gonna allow ties you need to account for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think the board is going to rule for team B. But I was hoping to be able to show some difinitive evidence that MATHMATICALLY Team A had a better record. I would just like the record to show that ties in baseball are an anathema to the game of baseball. That said, IMO if...and that's a big IF there must be a rule for ties in baseball....(of course we know this to be absurd) then the game should be counted as .500 no more, no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think the board is going to rule for team B. But I was hoping to be able to show some difinitive evidence that MATHMATICALLY Team A had a better record. You can make a mathematical argument, but I don't think there's going to be definitive evidence because the argument in these kinds of things will be subjective, like whether to count a tie as a point, or whether to look at wins alone, etc. For your case, the best mathematical argument would be either to simply say that wins alone is best (which isn't very convincing), or to look at wins, losses, and ties combined with strength of schedule. The problem is I doubt anyone will care about SoS at that level of play - so most likely they will look at the overall comparison as a tie, in which case, the head-to-head is probably the "easy way" they will determine who is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forehead Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 My opinion would be that each tie counts as half a win...meaning one team has a record of 6-4, the other has a modified record of 6-3. One less loss in this case gives Team B the edge. Either way, you have to play the dominant team to win the tournament at some point, assuming their previous dominance holds. But yeah, I'd vote team B by a whisker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaissance Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Which of these teams has a better record-Team A- 6 wins 4 losses no ties Team B- 5 Wins 3 Losses 2 ties Team A = 18 points (6*3) Team B = 17 points (5*3)+(2*1) Team A wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Team A: Winning % = 60% Losing % = 40% Tie % = 0% Team B: Winning % = 50% Losing % = 30% Tie % = 20% Team A has a higher winning % and moves on as the higher seed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Team A:Winning % = 60% Losing % = 40% Tie % = 0% Team B: Winning % = 50% Losing % = 30% Tie % = 20% Team A has a higher winning % and moves on as the higher seed. But in baseball, position is counted on how many games back a team is, not by percentage....but then there are no ties in baseball!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 How many of the losses were shootout losses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 But in baseball, position is counted on how many games back a team is, not by percentage....but then there are no ties in baseball!!!!!!! exactly, since there are ties you can't really use baseball games back as a good indicator. Hockey is out since you don't have ties either. You can go with soccer and base the results off points, or you can basically make up your own formula to put one ahead of the other and then just stick to it. Having a group decide it will be a problem since different people will feel different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I would go with the team ahead in the win column since the point of playing the game is to, you know, win ... but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btfoom Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think the board is going to rule for team B. But I was hoping to be able to show some difinitive evidence that MATHMATICALLY Team A had a better record. First, I agree with Poker. Since there are no rules in place to handle ties, then I don't think that the league should be able to retro-actively make rulings like "Ties Don't count". Go with the head to head or coin flip. One question: If both teams finished 6W, 4L, how does the league handle that? Whatever it is should prevail. If you want something that helps you, go with the NHL rule: Both teams tied on points, tie-breaker goes to team with most WINS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 By the way....other than my repeated objection regarding ties in baseball....I have another question. What is the dilemma? A) Is this the top 1 and 2 teams in the league and you're looking at tournament seeding? Or are you going into the tournament and these are the bubble teams; i.e. the team ahead here is in and the other is out? Because if it is A) then the top seed goes to the team with the most wins, and the team with the ties gets the 2nd seed in the tourney, not really much of a problem. However if it is this is a bit more touchy, but since there were no rules BEFORE the season regarding this, then any newly developed rule will look like favoritism toward the team that gets in, since in points they are tied. Which means that the best way to solve it is a head to head (but that will mean an extra game before a tourney which usually isn't practical), which just leaves the coin toss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Both teams will make the postseason. But the higher seed will go on the opposite side of the bracket from the best team in the league. Who is unbeaten. So that team would not have to play the best team until the championship game. Which would mean at least a 2nd place trophy, and a legit chance to win because of the pitching rules the league has in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Both teams will make the postseason. But the higher seed will go on the opposite side of the bracket from the best team in the league. Who is unbeaten. So that team would not have to play the best team until the championship game. Which would mean at least a 2nd place trophy, and a legit chance to win because of the pitching rules the league has in place. In that case go with most wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Mathematically team A had a better winning %. In real life, head-to-head, tiebreakers, division record, PF and PA, or other conditionals come into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Well you can think of a tie as a 50% chance that the team would win the game should they continue to play until someone won ... count it has 0.5 wins and 0.5 losses.... thus you can think of team B has having a record of 5 + (2*0.5) = 6 wins and 3 + (2*0.5) = 4 losses, which is identical record to team A. I would then use head-to-head. SOS should be not be used when the head-to-head favors one team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Team C (based on quantum mechanics stuffs like wave/particle duality). :geek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Mathematically team A had a better winning %. IF you assume that a tie = a loss. Edit: Rock, paper, scissors? Edit: There's the Big 12 method: highest BCS ranking. Edit: Or, there's the method that he BCS voters seem to use: The one hat lost most recently is out. (early losses don't count s much as later losses). You can even rationalize it: the team that hasn't lost LATELY is he one that's "hotter" right now. ---------- Post added November-11th-2011 at 12:51 AM ---------- If there are no backup rules in place like most points scored etc. then I think a resort to the coin flip would be appropriate, unless a 2 teamplayoff could be arranged. Then next season add a tiebreak to the rules for cases like this. That's what I'm thinking. This isn't a math question. This is a rules question. And, apparently, there aren't any rules. Coin flip may suck, but it's fair. - Harvey Dent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dockeryfan Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Baseball and ties? Throw everything out the window. Make your argument all about winning. Give ties absolutely no credence in your argument. If they have no value then your team looks better. Use daveakl's explanation of win% lose % tie%. That looks nice. Use the total win argument. You have 6, they have 5. You can't use traditional hockey or soccer rules to determine win/losses points, so make up your own argument. Personally, in a 10 game season, I say take the team with the most WINS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Not enough data on the variables to make a sound decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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