The Mess going on at Penn state Thread

[TimmySmith]

Wow. Really? Lighten up? If I'm a "do-gooder" then you must be a coward. Sure there are situations in life where we don't know how we would re-act, but this isn't one of them.

I am curious as to what you would do, because quite frankly I don't know what I would do.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

That's fair - thanks for the perspective.

And, like I said, that was initial thought yesterday. My view is hardening the more I learn.

This has been my process:

1. Jerry Sandusky? No way. Someone is out to make buck.

2. Wow. That grand jury report is a lot more expansive than I expected. Ok...Sandusky...well...who ever would have guessed this.

3. So...they knew in 2002 and possibly in 1998. Ok...well...maybe they kept Paterno in the dark.

4. Nope. JoePa knew. And it's pretty obvious that Sandusky was taken out of the running for the HC job because of this

---------- Post added November-7th-2011 at 12:16 PM ----------

Paterno did the reporting thing once, locally. I have heard nothing at all about him using his position of power and influence in and beyond State College to make sure the right thing was done -- not just the minimally-legal thing. Unless it turns out that, when nothing was done initially, he escalated to state and then Federal law enforcement and/or CPS, in my mind he's every bit as much of an enabler as the university authorities who also failed to report it. In this situation, IMO a failure to act despite a clear need isn't much better than acting to hide it all in defiance of the clear need. I mean, kid rape? Sorry, no free passes there for inaction.

This is the frustrating part in all this. Suddenly, Joe Paterno is bound by the letter of the law and the chain of command within the PSU athletic department? Paterno has essentially run the university since 1982. He's dictated everything from fundraising to the promotion of his son to de facto offensive coordinator. Suddenly, he's held in check?

[Heisenberg]

And' date=' like I said, that was initial thought yesterday. My view is hardening the more I learn.

This has been my process:

1. Jerry Sandusky? No way. Someone is out to make buck.

2. Wow. That grand jury report is a lot more expansive than I expected. Ok...Sandusky...well...who ever would have guessed this.

3. So...they knew in 2002 and possibly in 1998. Ok...well...maybe they kept Paterno in the dark.

4. Nope. JoePa knew. And it's pretty obvious that Sandusky was taken out of the running for the HC job because of this[/quote']

Yeah, the Penn State message boards I've been reading has a lot of stuff about that.

Seems the common thought is that Sandusky was forced to "retire" by Paterno after the '98 allegations came out. Many also think that Paterno made sure that Sandusky didn't get the UVA HC job that he was apparently a top candidate for.

Crazy stuff, especially if some of that is true - considering Paterno would have continued to let him bring kids onto campus.

[NavyDave]

It was reported in 2002.

It's 2011.

Man up and take a stand.

If a male coach is attracted sexually to males especially minors, he should never be hired to a position of authority where he has access to umm males especially minors.

[mjah]

If a male coach is attracted sexually to males especially minors, he should never be hired to a position of authority where he has access to umm males especially minors.

I think the problem there is that those particular male coaches aren't exactly forthcoming about their feelings of attraction.

And asking that question during a job interview would just set up an easy lie from a guy who has been lying about it his entire life, thereby gaining quite a bit of experience in making his shocked denial seem all the more genuine to the interviewer.

[visionary]

If a male coach is attracted sexually to males especially minors, he should never be hired to a position of authority where he has access to umm males especially minors.

Good point. Gays should never be allowed to be in positions of authority.

We should probably just start rounding them up now.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

If a male coach is attracted sexually to males especially minors, he should never be hired to a position of authority where he has access to umm males especially minors.

Look at NavyDave taking a stand. You really think that it's a bad idea to higher pedophiles for supervisory roles in youth programs? How daring.

[NavyDave]

This abuse has been ongoing for decades and people in authority knew about it. It's like the Catholic Church all over again. These poor children, no one protected them.

Yep. I posted an article here by the Washington Post about that and the gay priests with minor boys about 7-8 years ago. I also never understood why people wanted openly Gay guys to be Boy scout masters which could lead to similar tragedies.

---------- Post added November-7th-2011 at 11:29 AM ----------

Good point. Gays should never be allowed to be in positions of authority.

We should probably just start rounding them up now.

Round up males who are attracted to minors? Naw lets wait until they commit a heinous crime then blame the chain of command for not doing something about it sooner. :doh:

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Round up males who are attracted to minors? Naw lets wait until they commit a heinous crime then blame the chain of command for not doing something about it sooner. :doh:

Obviously, Penn State knew that Sandusky was a pedophile when they hired him in 1971. I mean, he was married and everything.

Seriously, you are a ****ing idiot. If I get banned for that, whatever.

[Slacky McSlackAss]

Round up males who are attracted to minors? Naw lets wait until they commit a heinous crime then blame the chain of command for not doing something about it sooner. :doh:

While were at it, we should ask people if they enjoy going on mass murdering sprees. Round them up as well before they commit those crimes.

You never cease to amaze me NavyDave :doh:

[visionary]

Round up males who are attracted to minors? Naw lets wait until they commit a heinous crime then blame the chain of command for not doing something about it sooner. :doh:

You said especially minors, meaning not just those attracted to minors.

And you obviously seem to think that all gays want to molest little boys for some reason.

By your reasoning we should probably disallow any teaching of minors by anyone who might be attracted to their sex.

Perhaps we should just employ robots.....

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Round up males who are attracted to minors? Naw lets wait until they commit a heinous crime then blame the chain of command for not doing something about it sooner. :doh:

At what point in the 70s would you have arrested Sandusky? And would you have arrested his wife and kids too?

[Jumbo]

Seriously' date=' you are a ****ing idiot. If I get banned for that, whatever.[/quote']

From rule 5:

We encourage spirited discussions and holding people accountable for what they post. This may be done in ways from funny to firm, including being castigating if reasonably merited. For example, calling someone "clueless" or calling some comment or post “stupid” when done in appropriate and justifiable context to the poster’s actual content is often allowable.

Now most people don't know the form or context in which to do this in a manner that preserves their posting privileges, so we advise caution (and reading the whole rule and all the other rules).

In your wording above, you'd be hard pressed to find many examples where you could get away with your comment on ES, but here and now is one of them.

[Heisenberg]

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/11/07/joe-paterno-should-resign-as-penn-states-football-head-coach/

Can't say I disagree with the author.

[Larry]

Paterno did the reporting thing once, locally. I have heard nothing at all about him using his position of power and influence in and beyond State College to make sure the right thing was done -- not just the minimally-legal thing. Unless it turns out that, when nothing was done initially, he escalated to state and then Federal law enforcement and/or CPS, in my mind he's every bit as much of an enabler as the university authorities who also failed to report it. In this situation, IMO a failure to act despite a clear need isn't much better than acting to hide it all in defiance of the clear need. I mean, kid rape? Sorry, no free passes there for inaction.

Now, I don't have a problem if notifying the Campus Cops is the initial reaction.

It's a very delicate situation. (And no, I don't intend that to be a euphemism for "how do we cover this up".)

The guy is a local legend. A pillar of the community.

This, in turn, means that he is especially vulnerable to false accusations.

OTOH, the allegation? And it certainly looks credible? And, you have to factor in that the guy is the head of an organization that has sleepovers for 1,000 10 year old boys? This absolutely has to be investigated.

I would have no problem at all if the decision people come to is "It must be investigated. Thoroughly, completely, and quietly."

I can understand, if that's their reaction.

My complaint is if they notify the Campus Cops, and then don't follow up.

---------- Post added November-7th-2011 at 11:52 AM ----------

If a male coach is attracted sexually to males especially minors, he should never be hired to a position of authority where he has access to umm males especially minors.

Trust Navy Dave to come in here and assert that the sex of the victims is more important than their age.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

LSF made a good point. In too many cases, campus police are designed to become a dumping ground for situations that colleges want to cover up. They can follow the letter of the law by "informing the police" while knowing full well that the police are going to bury the report.

It's probably #15 on a list of "To dos" right now at PSU, but reforming the campus police should probably be on the list at some point.

[Heisenberg]

Finally decided to read the Grand Jury report - kind of wish that I didn't.

Anyway, this guy was caught at least 3 times in the act. It's really unsettling to think how much of this hasn't even come to light yet. Who knows how many kids and/or how many times this was happening.

[LadySkinsFan]

I agree...although I have a friend who's career, marriage and life basically, was ruined by a 14y/o girl lying (admitted after he spent several weeks in jail) about being molested by him. Children will also hide these incidents from their parents/authorities, thereby making it tough to detect them. I'm definitely with you on adults being smart about putting themselves in bad situations. I coach sports and never give rides to kids without at least another kid or two being along.

Exactly, adults who are innocent do not put themselves in a position for accusation either. That's why your example about always having someone there is so important. Do not be alone with a child and there is no problem.

[Heisenberg]

Here's Lavar's take on the situation:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/hard-hits/post/jerry-sandusky-news-shocking-to-this-former-player/2011/11/07/gIQAO7oVvM_blog.html

[LadySkinsFan]

LKB, I'm trying to understand your take on McQueary . . .

I just don't understand how he saw something so horrible and didn't immediately do something about it. I have a hard enough time understanding how he didn't do something about the situation immediately - but considering he waited until the next day to report it to Paterno (instead of the police) boggles my mind.

Maybe my perspective is wrong, I don't know.

And this: why did he allow it to continue instead of rescuing the child? I mean, really.

[sportjunkie07]

man this is sad. sad for the kids, family members, and penn state in general, which is normally considered a good institution. at least there is no way Sandusky gets out of this one.

from pg. 11.. "The Grand Jury finds that portions of the testimony of Tim Curley and Jim Schultz are not credible"

ya think..

as for Paterno, i dont know if he did anything legally wrong, but i am disappointed in him. he knew Sandusky firsthand, and also knew firsthand the allegations against him. to not expect or demand something be done about it is dissapointing and shameful, especially from a man of his position and power at PSU and in the college sports world.

[DC9]

This is an absolutely horrible situation and if these accusations are true, major heads are going to roll for good reason. I am not sure if JoePa will get fired for this, but I would be surprised if he coaches beyond this year one way or another with the cloud that this will create over the program and athletic department as a whole. I have a feeling that there is going to be some major house cleaning within the PSU athletic department and some pretty serious criminal charges faced. Just a bothersome situation on so many levels.

I think you are right, but to me, it doesn't matter if JoePa coaches another game, Penn State got him that record (Eddie Robinson) for coaching victories, so if that was the goal, they've made it. We're talking a MINIMUM of four kids lives are ruined (probably much more than that) because these guys wanted to turn a blind eye to things that were going on so that it didn't affect the legacy of the coach who probably hasn't made a playcall or a football decision in 10 years anyways.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Here's Lavar's take on the situation:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/hard-hits/post/jerry-sandusky-news-shocking-to-this-former-player/2011/11/07/gIQAO7oVvM_blog.html

I pray the kids involved in this case are okay. Again as a parent this has created such a dilemma for me.

Really Lavar? WTF is the dilemma?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

In reading the grand jury testimony, two things stand out.

1. The only person who unequivocably did the right thing is Steven Turchetta, the high school coach and principal who actually properly reported Sandusky.

2. University Police NEVER questioned McQueary. How is that even possible?

---------- Post added November-7th-2011 at 01:39 PM ----------

Really Lavar? WTF is the dilemma?

You again have to consider who Sandusky is and how highly revered he was. To his players, this is probably like finding out that their father was a pedophile. I've heard Lavar talk about Sandusky. He absolutely reveres the man.

Nearly ever Penn State player seems to love Sandusky unconditionally while most of them had respect and admiration for Paterno that turned to affection over time. This is not your run of the mill assistant.

[DC9]

Well, here's the problem. The reporting requirement is only valid for employees of the organization. In 1998, 2 outside agencies were given report of the allegations. Sandusky resigned in 1999 -- every other allegation was after 1999, meaning he was no longer an employee of PSU. He did these alleged crimes while working for the Second Mile Foundation, not PSU.

And that 1998 investigation had a University Police Officer call the ADA assigned to the case and told him to "close the case." WTF? We have University Police telling an Assistant District Attorney to wrap it up, nothing to see here.... come the **** on! There is more of a cover up going on here than anyone realizes STILL. Paterno has got to face charges. 83 years old or not.