LeesburgSkinFan Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I'm just at a loss as to why apparently *nobody* went directly to the police on this. This is something you call 911 about ASAP if you see it, not something you report to your boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 LKB, I'm trying to understand your take on McQueary . . . I just don't understand how he saw something so horrible and didn't immediately do something about it. I have a hard enough time understanding how he didn't do something about the situation immediately - but considering he waited until the next day to report it to Paterno (instead of the police) boggles my mind. Maybe my perspective is wrong, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 LKB, I'm trying to understand your take on McQueary . . . I just don't understand how he saw something so horrible and didn't immediately do something about it. I have a hard enough time understanding how he didn't do something about the situation immediately - but considering he waited until the next day to report it to Paterno (instead of the police) boggles my mind. Maybe my perspective is wrong, I don't know. It's easy to judge in hindsight. He was obviously confronted with a bizarre situation and sent it up the chain of command. If you caught you boss red handed involved in an illegal activity, would you report it to the police, or to his boss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinFeathers Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 A girl I went to high school with who now goes to PSU said money from tuition is paying for Curley and Schultz's lawyers...can that even be remotely true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 I'm just at a loss as to why apparently *nobody* went directly to the police on this. This is something you call 911 about ASAP if you see it, not something you report to your boss. Leesburg, they did go to the authorities. Shultz was director of University Park Police, one of two entities that the grand jury determined this should be reported to. The other is the PA State Police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointyfootball Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 It's easy to judge in hindsight. He was obviously confronted with a bizarre situation and sent it up the chain of command. If you caught you boss red handed involved in an illegal activity, would you report it to the police, or to his boss? If he was doing what was alleged? Hell, yes. There's no chain of command in the civilian world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 It's easy to judge in hindsight. He was obviously confronted with a bizarre situation and sent it up the chain of command. If you caught you boss red handed involved in an illegal activity, would you report it to the police, or to his boss? If I caught my boss RAPING a 10 YEAR OLD in the shower, I'm sorry but I'm calling the cops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I agree...although I have a friend who's career, marriage and life basically, was ruined by a 14y/o girl lying (admitted after he spent several weeks in jail) about being molested by him. Children will also hide these incidents from their parents/authorities, thereby making it tough to detect them. I'm definitely with you on adults being smart about putting themselves in bad situations. I coach sports and never give rides to kids without at least another kid or two being along. That's sad also. I have no idea how male female gymnastics coaches can do it. And on the flip side, I have no idea how a parent can allow their female child to be coached by a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointyfootball Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Leesburg, they did go to the authorities. Shultz was director of University Park Police, one of two entities that the grand jury determined this should be reported to. The other is the PA State Police. That's fine. But, more than 24 hours after incident happened, AND no follow-up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 If I caught my boss RAPING a 10 YEAR OLD in the shower, I'm sorry but I'm calling the cops. Yeah, this is quite a bit different than catching my boss stealing or doing drugs. This is probably the most horrible things you can catch someone doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 It's easy to judge in hindsight. He was obviously confronted with a bizarre situation and sent it up the chain of command. If you caught you boss red handed involved in an illegal activity, would you report it to the police, or to his boss? What "illegal" act are you referring to? Because if you are comparing some illegal financial activity to the rape of a child then you are clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointyfootball Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 That's sad also. I have no idea how male female gymnastics coaches can do it. And on the flip side, I have no idea how a parent can allow their female child to be coached by a man. I coach a 10y/o girls travel soccer team. I make sure to always have my assistant coach (female) or team manager (female as well) at all activities, and I let new families know this without coming out and saying why. Unlike my high school boys team, I never give rides to girls unless AC or TM is with me. Incredibly sad we have to take these measures, but it's the world we live in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Pointy, IIRC the GA saw Paterno on a Saturday. Is there evidence that Paterno never followed up? The record is pretty void on this matter. We don't know yet if he never called Shultz again and asked, "Hey wha'ts going on with this?" I think it's reasonable to believe that he did and what if Shultz said "We're investigating the matter." I think the expectation of the public at large is that Paterno knocked down doors until this matter was put to bed beyond a reasonable doubt. I called the police once on my neighbor because I heard him beating someone in the apartment, sounded like a woman. A cop came and left. I wasn't sure what else to do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcl05 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I'm a physician, and I never see a patient without a nurse/med student/resident or someone in the room. Agree that its sad that such things are necessary, but its a sad reality that too many people in positions of power abuse kids. There are many guilty parties at PSU now. Everyone there failed to protect these kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 What "illegal" act are you referring to? Because if you are comparing some illegal financial activity to the rape of a child then you are clueless.Lighten up. I know there are 1000 perfect do-gooders on this site, but when the reality of a situation hits us in the face, we really don't know how we will react. We know how we hope to react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slacky McSlackAss Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 A girl I went to high school with who now goes to PSU said money from tuition is paying for Curley and Schultz's lawyers...can that even be remotely true? Yep, the school is financing the cost for both of their lawyers. Many people unhappy with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 It was reported in 2002.It's 2011. Man up and take a stand. Admittedly, I haven't read the whole thread, nor the whole Grand Jury report. But from what I have read, I think I'm with what I think chipwich is saying. If I'm reading correctly, the JoPa has received credible complaint, that a former player and current coach, who has been granted privileged access to University facilities, and who is in charge of a home for troubles youths, is a child molester. Now, to me, maybe the law says that he's a criminal if he doesn't report it, but he did, so he didn't break the law. But to me, if I'm in that situation, then my obligation is to do more than to notify somebody. (Especially to notify a person who is subject to pressure, not just to enforce the law, but to protect the University.) If I notify the cops, then within six months, I expect to see either A newspaper story announcing that the guy's been arrested. Or a report from the chief of police, telling me that a serious investigation has been performed, and we can't find enough evidence for an arrest and prosecution, but we're still working on it, and we're keeping the guy under surveillance. To me, if I notify the head campus cop, and six months later, nothing's happened, then I have an obligation to go over his head. ---------- If my understanding of the events is correct, then to me, I'm not even arguing over whether he should be fired. The question is whether he should be jailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Lighten up. I know there are 1000 perfect do-gooders on this site, but when the reality of a situation hits us in the face, we really don't know how we will react. We know how we hope to react. No question about what I would do. You can't be serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 No question about what I would do. You can't be serious. Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Yeah, I'm not sure what you're saying. Absolutely 0% chance I would let something as serious as witnessing a child rape go with just reporting it up the chain of command and washing my hands with it. The more I think and read about it the more disgusted I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Lighten up. I know there are 1000 perfect do-gooders on this site, but when the reality of a situation hits us in the face, we really don't know how we will react. We know how we hope to react. Wow. Really? Lighten up? If I'm a "do-gooder" then you must be a coward. Sure there are situations in life where we don't know how we would re-act, but this isn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeesburgSkinFan Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Saw this on the PSU boards… rearrange P A T E R N O and you get “RAPE NOT”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 LKB, I'm trying to understand your take on McQueary . . . I just don't understand how he saw something so horrible and didn't immediately do something about it. I have a hard enough time understanding how he didn't do something about the situation immediately - but considering he waited until the next day to report it to Paterno (instead of the police) boggles my mind. Maybe my perspective is wrong, I don't know. The more I read, the less happy I become with McQueary. My original thought was this: McQueary is from State College. He played in the program. He knows who Sandusky is and what he represents. (And that is what some people may not get. To those who follow Penn State, Sandusky was viewed as both the better coach and the better man than Paterno for nearly all of his tenure). I think it took some courage for McQueary to report this. He had to know that he was accusing a legend of something awful and was pretty much putting his entire coaching career on the line here. I do want to hear more from him though. (By the way, I'm not sure that everyone here fully understands exactly who Sandusky is. I'm completely serious when I say that he was held in higher regard among players and alums than Paterno. He was this saint-like defensive genius - the one who created Linebacker U). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 The more I read' date=' the less happy I become with McQueary.My original thought was this: McQueary is from State College. He played in the program. He knows who Sandusky is and what he represents. (And that is what some people may not get. To those who follow Penn State, Sandusky was viewed as both the better coach and the better man than Paterno for nearly all of his tenure). I think it took some courage for McQueary to report this. He had to know that he was accusing a legend of something awful and was pretty much putting his entire coaching career on the line here. I do want to hear more from him though.[/quote'] That's fair - thanks for the perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjah Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 To me, if I notify the head campus cop, and six months later, nothing's happened, then I have an obligation to go over his head. Yes, this a thousand times. Exactly this. And the word certainly is OBLIGATION. Not option, prerogative, or alternative. OBLIGATION. You don't do it simply because you fear the prospect of being charged under PA's mandatory reporting laws, or under any other legal statute. You do it because you're a human being and not in the Marine Corps, meaning you don't just accept whatever authority tells you (or remains silent about) regardless of how horrifying it is. You do it because you take it upon yourself -- a sentient person capable of feeling both moral horror and basic compassion -- to report the child rape you witnessed or were informed about, AND TO ESCALATE AS NECESSARY. If I'm Joe Paterno and I'm presumably not senile, and someone on my staff comes up to me and says "Coach, I just witnessed your Defensive Coordinator anally raping an elementary school age boy in a shower on athletic department property," I immediately realize that I have one of two situations on my hands: 1. The guy is telling the truth. Holy God, he's telling the truth. And I have no idea of the true scope of the problem. I can't keep Sandusky around. For the sake of the program and school, but more importantly for the sake of the hundreds of children under his direct or indirect care through Sandusky's program, I have got to report this to every law enforcement agency I can possibly find. 2. The guy is lying. Holy God, I have a psychopath on my staff who is levying accusations like THIS at some of the loftiest positions in my program. Am I next in his sights? I can't keep this accuser around. For the sake of the program and school, but more importantly for the sake of Jerry Sandusky and the future of his program, which has the potential to help hundreds of children, I have got to report this to every law enforcement agency I can possibly find. Funny how both possibilities end up in exactly the same place: report, then escalate the ever-loving hell out of the situation until you have nowhere else to go. Paterno did the reporting thing once, locally. I have heard nothing at all about him using his position of power and influence in and beyond State College to make sure the right thing was done -- not just the minimally-legal thing. Unless it turns out that, when nothing was done initially, he escalated to state and then Federal law enforcement and/or CPS, in my mind he's every bit as much of an enabler as the university authorities who also failed to report it. In this situation, IMO a failure to act despite a clear need isn't much better than acting to hide it all in defiance of the clear need. I mean, kid rape? Sorry, no free passes there for inaction. College football does not trump the need to protect elementary school age children from being raped by college football coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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