Jason "Teflon don Campbell

[HailGreen28]

The fact this is the same thread about Jason Candle, that we've had in one form or another since 2006, speaks for itself.

[Santana_89]

Campbell is what he is: an average starter; a game manager. He isn't terrible and won't lose you games but he'll seldom if ever go out and make the big play to win you the game.

The Raiders are pretty much a carbon copy of the 2008 Redskins. Strong running game, decent receivers, and a good defense. Just like they went 8-8 last year, they'll probably go 8-8 again this year. Shame too because if they had a better QB they could contend for the division. Their defense might actually be better than ours was back then.

:yes: when CP and the Oline were healthy the 2010/2011 Raiders look all too familiar ike the Campbell led Redskins. God forbid Run DMc go down then things will get ugly real quick , Gradkowski actually had better chemistry with the receivers (he was bitten pretty good by the injury bug last year) crazy that they let him get away but it's Oakland :crazy: It 's much easier to contend for the division title now for JC because he's in a weaker division.

[sportjunkie07]

I think I've identified our fundamental difference in the bolded statement.

i agree, it appears that importance of the qb is a fundamental difference in our thinking.

Which brings us back to my point: The only difference between the Raiders and the Redskins is the running game.

and as i said before, you are ignoring special teams. they have very good special teams. if janikowski doesnt tie a record for a field goal last night, that game is tied and probably headed to OT.

The Raiders have worse WRs and their pass protection was almost as bad.

I'm not sure why its hard for you to concede that the Raiders have less talent then we had at WR when Jason was here.

i already conceded that the redskins had better receivers.. i made a point to say that campbell kills receiver production, and he will continue to do so in Oakland.

And I'll presume by your silence on the matter that you concede that their pass protection isn't better either?

i havent watched all of their games, so i cant make a completely informed comment. it looks to be a little better, but i expect it will get worse as the season goes on and teams stack the box. qb play has a huge affect on protection, a point, we probably disagree on. campbell is one of the worst in the league in that regard.

Moss has had 1,000 season w/ Campbell ARE had the best years of his career w/ Campbell and ARE isn't even good. If the Raiders have a WR w/ 1,000 yard potential Campbell can get them there.

Actually this is not true check Jason+Moss in 2008.

BTW-Of course its not a coincidence that Moss numbers improves over last year.(although I disagree that Moss is losing his speed, speed persists.)

how can you deny that moss was negatively affected by campbell? its true in every regard.

moss comes off a near 1500 yard season and his production falls way off in the following years with campbell, despite entering his prime. furthermore, you can take moss' best year with campbell, and the production is still not as good as moss' season last year.

moss in 2010: 93 rec., 1114 yrds, 6 tds.

moss in 2008: 79 rec., 1044 yds, 6 tds.

Moss has gotten slower over the years, this is a guarantee and completely obvious to any unbiased viewer. you dont get faster as you age and the game tape reflects that. moss is not as explosive as he was in 06 or 08, yet he still put up better numbers with a combo of rex and mcnabb than he ever did with campbell. shockingly, its because campbell stunts wr production.

you list the improvement from moss as due to the line improvement, scheme change, and the emergence of anthony armstrong. its the qb play man, armstrong would have been a nobody with JC, he would do nothing with a deep threat like armstrong because his deep ball is horrible.

you cant properly compare El's time in Pittsburgh to here. he was a number 3 or 4 receiver (behind ward and plaxico) receiver most of the time, he didnt get the playing time and looks that he received here. despite that huge factor, though, el's production in pittsburgh was only slightly less (>50 yrds/season) than here, where he was on the field for almost every offensive down. i never thought El was great, but if Campbell could hit him in stride and make more accurate passes, El's numbers would have been better as well. bottom line, outside of the tight end, campbell kills a receiver's production.

if you cant concede that Campbell kills a wide receiver's production, then we dont need to converse any longer on the topic because you are so biased that it is affecting common sense.

Our difference is that I don't think Jason has reached his ceiling as a QB.

now this we can agree to disagree on. he may get better.. improve his reads, become more comfortable in his system, learn to throw a slant, etc., i just think it would have happened by now if it was ever going to.

in all honesty, i dont hate the guy, but he didnt play to win. i do not want that kind of player as my starting qb. if he had played with a similar kind of tenacity (not necessarily the same production, just the same attacking, never give up attitude) as the saints game in 09', i wouldnt have had a problem with giving him more time. but that performance was an anomaly.

if he can learn to be that kinda player, ill be the first to give him props, because he found what was holding him back and worked to rid himself of those issues. i just dont think it will ever happen and it certaintly hasnt happened yet.

[HailToTheRedskins14]

I honestly don't care as long as he's not here.

If I have to see him looking like a deer in headlights and staring down open receivers for 3 seconds then getting sacked ever again in a Skins uniform, I'm breaking a TV. Guy is the definition of mediocre.

[darrelgreenie]

i agree, it appears that importance of the qb is a fundamental difference in our thinking.

Not the importance but the relationship between the QB and team.

and as i said before, you are ignoring special teams. they have very good special teams. if janikowski doesnt tie a record for a field goal last night, that game is tied and probably headed to OT.

No.

I'm not ignoring special teams.

I made a specific mention of the areas of weakness.

I clearly stated the Raiders were a better net team:

I agree that the Raiders are better set-up on the whole and that's why the won more games.

But I addressed to key deficient areas specifically: pass protection and WR play.

i already conceded that the redskins had better receivers...

Oh, then my mistake I didn't see you write that the we have better WRs then Oakland.

But, if you agree that the we have better WRs then Oakland then what are you disgareeing about?

i havent watched all of their games, so i cant make a completely informed comment. it looks to be a little better

I haven't watched all their games either but I've watched enough to know there pass protection is no better then the poor pass protection here.

qb play has a huge affect on protection, a point, we probably disagree on. campbell is one of the worst in the league in that regard

Not at all QB play does effect pass protection.

But the actual talent along the OL is far more important.

There is no way an honest person can say that an injured Stephon Heyer and an out of the league Levi Jones were anything but the worst bookend OTs in the league.

Yet, Campbell had his best year.

how can you deny that moss was negatively affected by campbell? its true in every regard.

Ah, you're back pedalling.

You said this:

i am saying that JC never makes anything of his WRs. he doesnt give them the opportunity to shine. Jacoby Ford is really good, that guy should have a 1000 yrd+ season, but he wont with JC throwing him the ball.

moss comes off a near 1500 yard season and his production falls way off in the following years with campbell, despite entering his prime. furthermore, you can take moss' best year with campbell, and the production is still not as good as moss' season last year

WRs production within the same scheme same QBs fall off is their QBs fault?

Football is sport that doesn't lend itself well to broad generalization like the one you're attempting to make attributing Moss drop in stats to JC alone.

There scheme change, there's defenses gameplanning to stop him etc...etc....

Moss has gotten slower over the years, this is a guarantee and completely obvious to any unbiased viewer. you dont get faster as you age and the game tape reflects that.

Any speed athlete will atest that speed persist much more then most other physical gifts.

Guys like Tana and Galloway will always be fast.

You don't have to believe me again we can agree to disagree.

But, I can tell you first hand I'm 34 years old and at least twice a year I race and beat much younger men in foot races.

moss is not as explosive as he was in 06 or 08, yet he still put up better numbers with a combo of rex and mcnabb than he ever did with campbell. shockingly, its because campbell stunts wr production.

LoL, you posted the stats:

moss in 2010: 93 rec., 1114 yrds, 6 tds.

moss in 2008: 79 rec., 1044 yds, 6 tds.

WOW what a shoking difference!

you list the improvement from moss as due to the line improvement, scheme change, and the emergence of anthony armstrong. its the qb play man, armstrong would have been a nobody with JC, he would do nothing with a deep threat like armstrong because his deep ball is horrible.

Huh?

Let me ask you a few questions:

o Do you think this scheme does a better job of getting Moss open?

o Do you think Armstrong is more of a threat then ARE?

i never thought El was great, but if Campbell could hit him in stride and make more accurate passes, El's numbers would have been better as well. bottom line, outside of the tight end, campbell kills a receiver's production.

Based on what? You've completely failed to prove your assertion.

Never mind that ARE had his best years with Campbell then couldn't be more then a No.4 WR in Pittsburgh.

if you cant concede that Campbell kills a wide receiver's production, then we dont need to converse any longer on the topic because you are so biased that it is affecting common sense.

Funny I feel the same way about your bias.

Like I said before we should agree to diagree about on your theory about Campbell killing WRs.

now this we can agree to disagree on. he may get better.. improve his reads, become more comfortable in his system, learn to throw a slant, etc., i just think it would have happened by now if it was ever going to.

Cool; I think Campbell's best years are ahead of him if the Raiders can continue to add talent.

[Mooka]

I don't think the Broncos played off a single receiver all game.

Friggin take advantage of something back that defense up Jason.... though we said that for 4 years of him here.

[Shanny&Danny]

I don't think the Broncos played off a single receiver all game.

Friggin take advantage of something back that defense up Jason.... though we said that for 4 years of him here.

Everyone,except Al Davis, has figured out that JC can't complete deep throws to save his life therefore defenses don't worry about it. This is the same guy that claimed that we shouldn't even attempt to throw deep because the depleted Rams secondary played cover 2. Heath Shuler > Candle.

[SkinsFTW]

The defense doesn't even play the middle of the field and he still does nothing to take advantage of it. He just continues to check down to the rb in the flat or the te/receiver 5 yards beyond that. JC is a scrub who will win some games that the running game and defense totally dominate. That game last night looked like us in early 2008 when Portis was running for 150 a game and the defense was playing lights out and we'd win by 3-5 points.

I saw him throw a couple deep balls, all at the sideline and either well overthrown or out of bounds.

[Taylor 36]

JC is mediocre on his best day. He has proven that year after year, system after system, coach after coach, and even team after team. It is funny that the same excuses the fan club have literally been using for YEARS are still the same that they are using today. Fortunately, most of the JC fan club members dumped their fan cards awhile ago because they were smart enough to take off the blinders and see what EVERYONE else but the blind and moronic fans (including Al Davis) have come to realize about Captain Check-down. Raiders fans learned and recognized the truth about him in under five games, yet there are still Redskin fans that haven't learned (or admitted it) after four plus years. That is an embarrassment to the fan base. :doh:

[tiger187126]

JC is mediocre on his best day. He has proven that year after year, system after system, coach after coach, and even team after team. It is funny that the same excuses the fan club have literally been using for YEARS are still the same that they are using today. Fortunately, most of the JC fan club members dumped their fan cards awhile ago because they were smart enough to take off the blinders and see what EVERYONE else but the blind and moronic fans (including Al Davis) have come to realize about Captain Check-down. Raiders fans learned and recognized the truth about him in under five games, yet there are still Redskin fans that haven't learned (or admitted it) after four plus years. That is an embarrassment to the fan base. :doh:

8-4 last year

1-0 this year

he plays in a different conference on a different coast, and yet you guys want to drag him through the mud anyway.

mcnabb threw for 39 yards and lost. he plays in our conference and we have to play him this year.

i know it was your mom, but it was just one night and her and campbell were both a little tipsy. just let it go.

[Switchgear]

How has JC had a better career than Grossman? He has never had a winning record or even sniffed the playoffs let alone the SB?

Careers:

Rex Grossman. 9th year in the league. 42 appearances in games.

619/1138 (54.4%) 7386yards 175.9yards/game 6.2avg 42TDs 40Int 72.1rating

Jason Campbell. 7th year in the league. 66 appearances in games

1209/1988 (60.8%) 13352yards 202.3yards/game 6.7avg 69TDs 46Int 82.7rating

That's how.

Ouch.

[tr1]

The 'agenda boyz' are back in town...

[SirClintonPortis]

Jason Campbell is simply not good. He's just in a MUCH better situation in Oakland. The Raiders have some pure weapons on offense, like Jacoby Ford, Darren McFadden, and Marcel Reece. He's got his #1 receiver, an ELITE back, and a better O-line than he had here. Hell, he's even had stability of over there, since Hue Jackson still has plenty of input on offense. But his deep ball still sucks, and he is far too conservative in his decision-making. Many QBs actually aren't afraid of gunning it in there SMARTLY, placing the ball where no one but the receiver has the chance to catch the football, but Campbell rarely ever does that.

[darrelgreenie]

[FanboyOf91]

Careers:

Rex Grossman. 9th year in the league. 42 appearances in games.

619/1138 (54.4%) 7386yards 175.9yards/game 6.2avg 42TDs 40Int 72.1rating

Jason Campbell. 7th year in the league. 66 appearances in games

1209/1988 (60.8%) 13352yards 202.3yards/game 6.7avg 69TDs 46Int 82.7rating

That's how.

Wow...

[tiger187126]

Careers:

Rex Grossman. 9th year in the league. 42 appearances in games.

619/1138 (54.4%) 7386yards 175.9yards/game 6.2avg 42TDs 40Int 72.1rating

Jason Campbell. 7th year in the league. 66 appearances in games

1209/1988 (60.8%) 13352yards 202.3yards/game 6.7avg 69TDs 46Int 82.7rating

That's how.

[PCS]

How not to finish a reply in 3 easy lessons or less courtesy of post #85.

[2cents]

Post all the stats you want. I'd take Rex in a heartbeat over JC. Figures lie and liers figure.

[NoCalMike]

Jason Campbell is the exact same QB he is on the Raiders as he was on the 'Skins. He is most comfortable checking down and throwing high percentage passes to running backs and full backs. Notice how the one TD he had was to a back?

Then when he got good pass protection and DHB was wide open streaking down the sideline in the second half, Campbell pulled a Campbell and threw it at least 10 yards over his head....

Campbell can complete high percentage passes, but he still can't read a defense well, is very inaccurate with his deep ball, and holds onto the damn ball way to long.

[Redskins Life]

For everyone questioning all the "hate" for Jason Campbell, I question why all the love.

First, I don't think that anyone "hates" him as a person, I believe people just don't respect him as a quarterback in the NFL, and for good reason. His stat line might look average to above average at times, but watch the actual tape. Most of his stats are gained or improved by taking no chances at all.

Second, he is very content to get off the field on a third and four by immediately checking down to the guy only two yards out, rather than taking a chance with the two or three guys passed the sticks. I don't know how anyone could want that type of attitude and leadership from a quarterback. How can you respect a guy as a quarterback who plays like that? No defense respects or fears a quarterback that plays scared, and several NFL defensive players have said as much about him.

Jason Campbell is a guy that would make a great back-up, because he won't lose any games, but he sure won't win any for you either. I don't understand all the love for a player like that. It is more ludicrous than the Brennan followers. At least they had the element of unknown on their side. Everyone who has paid attention knows what Jason Campbell is capable of, and his cons definitely outweigh his pros.

[mhbhoy]

To me Campbell thinks he's a better QB than he really is, he had the opportunity to stay at the Skins and learn from one of the best of his generation and a future Hall of Famer in McNab but he seems to think he has it all. He'll fade into obscurity soon enough.

[Rudechain]

I'd take Brucie over JC all day, there's a reason he took his job last year,

Oh Really?

Then please explain why JC finished the season with the Raiders and Bruce is no longer with the team.

A bit of revisionist history there dude.

[Redskins Life]

Oh Really?

Then please explain why JC finished the season with the Raiders and Bruce is no longer with the team.

A bit of revisionist history there dude.

Actually, Bruce got hurt, and it was very well known that Al Davis wanted to go with Jason Campbell. So, when Bruce got hurt and they had to go back to Campbell, Davis forced the staff to stick with him. Davis believes Campbell is the next Jim Plunkett; he said it himself in an interview. He got rid of Bruce because he didn't want the distraction. The coaches didn't want Campbell starting, which is one of the reasons why they aren't there either.

So, he didn't revise anything about history; you just never knew the history. Big difference.

[Shanny&Danny]

Actually, Bruce got hurt, and it was very well known that Al Davis wanted to go with Jason Campbell. So, when Bruce got hurt and they had to go back to Campbell, Davis forced the staff to stick with him. Davis believes Campbell is the next Jim Plunkett; he said it himself in an interview. He got rid of Bruce because he didn't want the distraction. The coaches didn't want Campbell starting, which is one of the reasons why they aren't there either.

So, he didn't revise anything about history; you just never knew the history. Big difference.

Man, JC is a true coach killer. So far he has run Gregg(2nd g for genius of course) Williams, Al Saunders and Jim Zorn out of DC, and now he's ready to do damage on the west coast as well. It appears that anytime JC is your QB it's time to polish up that resume cuz the clock is tickin'.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

The Raiders dominated that game and squeaked out a victory.

Seems familiar.

~Bang

Yep... so glad things worked out the way they have.