Jason "Teflon don Campbell

[pjfootballer]

New Orleans Saints and the Blind Squirrel/Nut. That's all I have to say.

[TheLongshot]

I don't disagree with you that JC is a pretty ordinary QB. But I do disagree that JC didn't have talent while he was here. He had possibly the best O-line in the league in the first half of 2008. You could probably make an argument that our O-line was top-10 in the league from 2006 up until Samuels got injured in 08. Portis was in his prime. Betts was in his prime. Moss was coming off a 1500 yard season. Cooley was an emerging star. JC had a pro bowler or recent pro bowler at RB, FB, TE, WR, and LT. The talent was there, he was just hesitant with the ball.

EDIT: And I think the overall point I want to make is that JC was pretty unextraordinary, while Rex is showing quickly that he could be extraordinary.

The O-line under Campbell was at its best in 2006, and was on a steady decline for the rest of his time here. He also never had the receiving options that Rex has.

As for Rex, until he proves otherwise, he's a poor man's Eli Manning: a very hot and cold QB.

[skins4eva]

The O-line under Campbell was at its best in 2006, and was on a steady decline for the rest of his time here. He also never had the receiving options that Rex has.

As for Rex, until he proves otherwise, he's a poor man's Eli Manning: a very hot and cold QB.

He throws a much prettier ball than Eli. Interesting that no one compares Rex to Eli--but it's a decent comparison.

[gortiz]

The dislike for JC is irrational.

When folks went 'all in' on how bad a qb he is/was, they try to save face with weak arguments when JC has a good day.

It's an interesting study in human psychology.

:rotflmao:

its quite sick actually ... i mean, its a little weird, and here's why, you can feel "hate" in the tone of the criticism, I mean, real bad feelings. its strange.

no one can answer these two simple questions, and it is a yes or no.

during JC's tenure here were the skins a solid, consistent and stable franchise?

during JC's tenure, was the handleing of his development, solid, consistent and stable?

answer yes or no ...

[sportjunkie07]

campbell played well today. he has these performances from time to time, where he puts up 300 and a few TDs, then reverts back to his usual 170 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT games while handing the ball to mcfadden all day.

the raiders are going nowhere with campbell as their QB, and their entire fanbase knows it. Al Davis is the only one who doesnt, or maybe campbell is just a place holder until Pryor is ready? LOL

seconded. like i always say, ill give campbell credit when he earns it. i didnt see the game, but from the play by play, it looks as if he did well and at least tried to give his team the win.

however, do i want him on my team yesterday instead of Rex? no friggin way we win that game with JC.

---------- Post added September-19th-2011 at 04:24 PM ----------

He throws a much prettier ball than Eli. Interesting that no one compares Rex to Eli--but it's a decent comparison.

in the preseason i stated that rex would equal or outperform eli... at the time, i was actually mocked for the prediction. they both make a lot of mistakes but also throw for high yardage and td's. in this system, rex is every bit as capable, or better, than eli.

[darrelgreenie]

TR1...as far as agenda boyz go, you must really hate Shanny as the ultimate agenda boy for running your sweetheart out of town.

Guess Shanny didn't want to spend his whole gameday telling Jason what to say to his teammates in the huddle........

LoL, nevermind how things actually played out.

Shanahan states that he liked Jason Campbell.

McNabb becomes available and they trade for what they thought was a willing multiple pro-bowl QB a QB they figured was already at the level where they would try to elevate Campbell.

Then after McNabb was acquired Campbell was granted the right to shop his wares although Shanahan welcomed Campbell to stay with the team.

Yeah, but don't let the facts get in the way of your perception, it hasn't stopped anyone else in this thread.

---------- Post added September-19th-2011 at 06:07 PM ----------

the raiders are going nowhere with campbell as their QB, and their entire fanbase knows it. Al Davis is the only one who doesnt, or maybe campbell is just a place holder until Pryor is ready? LOL

Riiigggghhhhtttttt.

After beating the Chargers twice for the first time in a long while and sweeping the division the Raider's fanbase believes they're going nowhere with Campbell?

-Right

[8181]

Jason Campbell has this sort of game, but once again he choked like a dog.

I think in his entire career, he has one comeback win, and it was with the Raiders last season.

For those who saw the game, you know he had enough timeouts to get the Raiders into field goal range for Sebastian Janikowski. The second to last play of the game, he threw the ball out of bounds. Who the hell does that?

---------- Post added September-19th-2011 at 09:51 PM ----------

LoL, nevermind how things actually played out.

Shanahan states that he liked Jason Campbell.

McNabb becomes available and they trade for what they thought was a willing multiple pro-bowl QB a QB they figured was already at the level where they would try to elevate Campbell.

Then after McNabb was acquired Campbell was granted the right to shop his wares although Shanahan welcomed Campbell to stay with the team.

Yeah, but don't let the facts get in the way of your perception, it hasn't stopped anyone else in this thread.

I like your analysis on quarterbacks when you are basing it on game film. I respect you for those posts.

But do you really believe what you wrote? Shanahan brought in McNabb, Grossman, and Beck. The only quarterback who probably wasn't going to get a long-term contract was Grossman, and it seems obvious to me that in an open QB competition, Grossman would have destroyed Campbell.

[darrelgreenie]

I like your analysis on quarterbacks when you are basing it on game film. I respect you for those posts.

But do you really believe what you wrote? Shanahan brought in McNabb, Grossman, and Beck. The only quarterback who probably wasn't going to get a long-term contract was Grossman

I always base my analysis on film and I always mean what I write.

How does this post contradict anything I wrote in the post to which you responded?

and it seems obvious to me that in an open QB competition, Grossman would have destroyed Campbell

I think most people confuse a QB situation with their ability.

Mike/Kyle's scheme is a great scheme for any QB.

I believe 100% that Rex(Beck) will have a better year then most people believe or believed and I said as much a long time ago before it became popular.

But, in an open compeition how on earth would he 'destroy' a QB that is clearly better: accuracy, comp %, arm strength, passing yards, toughness(etc..)

Rex barely managed to hold off John Beck.

In an open competition I'll take Jason.

He's a coaches dream he'll run the offense exactly the way the coach draws it up.

If there was ever a year I wanted to see it would have been Jason vs Rex last year.

Either QB probably out performs McNabb.

[8181]

I always base my analysis on film and I always mean what I write.

How does this post contradict anything I wrote in the post to which you responded?

It just seemed like you were trying to use Shanahan's coach-speak as evidence of something, but I don't really want to debate that as that's meaningless and a waste of time for both of us.

I think most people confuse a QB situation with their ability.

Mike/Kyle's scheme is a great scheme for any QB.

Jason Campbell is not only more talented then Rex Grossman he's been a better QB then Rex.

I believe 100% that Rex(Beck) will have a better year then most people believe or believed and I said as much a long time ago before it became popular.

But, in an open compeition in this offense Jason Campbell would without a doubt beat out Rex.

Rex barely managed to hold off John Beck.

How on earth would he 'destroy' a QB that is clearly better: accuracy, comp %, arm strength, passing yards, toughness etc...

I think Rex Grossman beat out John Beck for the same reasons he would've beaten out Jason Campbell. Both Beck and Campbell have much better physical attributes in terms of arm strength and toughness. But Rex Grossman showed he had a better grasp of the scheme (not Campbell or Beck's fault) and that he could make meaningful plays, not yards and completion percentage padded by underneath throws.

[darrelgreenie]

I think Rex Grossman beat out John Beck for the same reasons he would've beaten out Jason Campbell. Both Beck and Campbell have much better physical attributes in terms of arm strength and toughness. But Rex Grossman showed he had a better grasp of the scheme (not Campbell or Beck's fault) and that he could make meaningful plays, not yards and completion percentage padded by underneath throws.

Rex was barely able to beat out a John Beck.

If a QB struggles to beat out John Beck then I don't see why anyone would think they would beat out a QB that is not only more physically talented but has been a more productive QB through their careers?

Its a moot point Rex(Beck) will be our QB of the present and I support both.

But, I'm not gonna have revisionist history.

Kyle's scheme is making Rex look good if Kyle's scheme can make Rex looks good and Campbell is more talented and more productive then Rex then Campbell will look better in Kyle's scheme.

[8181]

Rex was barely able to beat out a John Beck.

If a QB struggles to beat out John Beck then I don't see why anyone would think they would beat out a QB that is not only more physically talented but has been a more productive QB through their careers?

Its a moot point Rex(Beck) will be our QB of the present and I support both.

But, I'm not gonna have revisionist history.

Kyle's scheme is making Rex look good if Kyle's scheme can make Rex looks good and Campbell is more talented and more productive then Rex then Campbell will look better in Kyle's scheme.

Jason Campbell has an amazing arm. Amazing mobility. And he is a student of the game.

His problem is his personality. He lacks self-confidence. Who's fault is that? I don't know. I do know at Auburn he wasn't expected to carry the offense. I also know that in his early career, he made his best efforts to make plays, chucking both deep and intermediate balls.

Somewhere in 2007, he suddenly stopped. Maybe it was Gibbs who ruined him, and then Zorn who completely destroyed any of his value. Maybe the coaches didn't put enough trust in him. It seems plausible because Jason Campbell has been on record as saying that he knows he has a rocket arm and as a quarterback, he would love to let loose. But at this point in his career, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Jason Campbell's stats are better than Rex Grossman for two reasons: 1) He has had more opportunity to play. If Grossman played an entire season last year, we wouldn't be debating that Campbell has better stats than Rex. 2) Campbell's stats are very empty stats that are padded from multiple factors including dumping underneath to pad completion percentage, and then putting up points and yards versus prevent defenses.

In the second to last play of yesterday's game, Campbell had to get into field goal range for his kicker to have a chance to tie the game.

He threw it out of bounds. That situation told me everything I needed to know. He did not want to even take the chance. Could it have been intercepted? Yeah. Could it have been a reception? Yes. He has a rocket arm, so try to force it in there. Instead, he threw it away or it was a horribly inaccurate pass. I don't know which is more embarassing. The chance of it being caught and the chance of Sebastian Janikowski making the field goal was a lot greater than the chance of a Hail Mary pass working, and if it wasn't caught he could still try the Hali Mary. The worst-case scenario was an interception, but in the worst case scenario, as long as it isn't a bad throw, the chance of it being an interception is less than or equal to the chance of a reception due to two people fighting for the ball. You have to play to win the game. Jason Campbell doesn't do that. He only plays to let other people try to win it for him.

[darrelgreenie]

But at this point in his career, you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Its ironic you say this considering Rex is playing better wearing the Burgundy and Gold then he has anywhere else at any point in his career.

Likewise for Mike Vick, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Trent Green, Randall Cunningham. Rich Gannon.

Jason Campbell's stats are better than Rex Grossman for two reasons: 1) He has had more opportunity to play. If Grossman played an entire season last year, we wouldn't be debating that Campbell has better stats than Rex. 2) Campbell's stats are very empty stats that are padded from multiple factors including dumping underneath to pad completion percentage, and then putting up points and yards versus prevent defenses.

1) Ifs and buts.......

2) Do you believe your 2nd point? That somehow Campbell's stats are effected by some other set of factors/circumstances then any other QB in the NFL?

[8181]

Its ironic you say this considering Rex is playing better wearing the Burgundy and Gold then he has anywhere else at any point in his career.

Likewise for Mike Vick, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Trent Green, Randall Cunningham. Rich Gannon.

None of those quarterbacks suddenly started playing football differently. They either got smarter or moved to a better team. Michael Vick's change is overrated, he's on a better team now, but he's playing exactly the same style he was doing for the Falcons.

If Jason Campbell's problem was his study habits or his intelligence, then I'd give him a chance to improve. But he's smart and I've never heard any knocks on his work habits, which is why I give him less of a chance. His problem is psychological.

Campbell can play better, but unless he starts visiting a shrink to make him finally "unleash the dragon" and make him a more assertive quarterback (I said assertive, not stupid), his only chance of being a winning quarterback is by pulling a Kerry Collins or Trent Dilfer.

It's like the fight or flight thing, except on the football field.

1) Ifs and buts.......

2) Do you believe your 2nd point? That somehow Campbell's stats are effected by some other set of factors/circumstances then any other QB in the NFL?

Stats are a dashboard, but they do not tell the whole story. Stats can be inflated or deflated depending on circumstance. McNabb was the same quarterback he was in Washington as he was in Philadelphia.

Jason Campbell's stats under Zorn are inflated. His more realistic stats are what he's putting up in Oakland where the only thing he really lacks is a #1 receiver, but he's not the only quarterback who has that problem.

[darrelgreenie]

None of those quarterbacks suddenly started playing football differently. They either got smarter or moved to a better team. Michael Vick's change is overrated, he's on a better team now, but he's playing exactly the same style he was doing for the Falcons.

Stats are a dashboard, but they do not tell the whole story. Stats can be inflated or deflated depending on circumstance. McNabb was the same quarterback he was in Washington as he was in Philadelphia.

Jason Campbell's stats under Zorn are inflated. His more realistic stats are what he's putting up in Oakland where the only thing he really lacks is a #1 receiver, but he's not the only quarterback who has that problem.

There's soo much I disgaree with in your post that I don't know where to begin.

If Campbell's stats are inflated then why is he still ranked average to above average by the new QBR?

The rest of the bolded I disgree with for obvious reasons, mainly they're not true.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Warhead36]

JC was/is a terrible fit for the Shanahan offense. He has a strong arm but a terribly slow release and his accuracy in the short-to-intermediate passing game is subpar at best. He also doesn't process information very quickly and tends to stare down his receivers, which hurts your ability to sustain a solid offensive rhythm. He fits the Raiders power running game and sling the ball downfield offense. Again, JC is not a bad NFL QB. He is average and has lots of limitations, he won't go out there and win you games but if you give him a good running game and decent WRs you can win some games with him.

[Reaper 21]

JC was/is a terrible fit for the Shanahan offense. He has a strong arm but a terribly slow release and his accuracy in the short-to-intermediate passing game is subpar at best. He also doesn't process information very quickly and tends to stare down his receivers, which hurts your ability to sustain a solid offensive rhythm. He fits the Raiders power running game and sling the ball downfield offense. Again, JC is not a bad NFL QB. He is average and has lots of limitations, he won't go out there and win you games but if you give him a good running game and decent WRs you can win some games with him.

this is true sorry dg but you are way off on this couldnt disagree more with you, Jason campbell is a power run ball control offense qb who is simply there to hand it off his best skill like it was here to cp. have no idea what game film you watch its not even close. you said better than rex come on man. dude is putting up 300 yd games weekly jc barely sniffs 200 yds a week and accomplished more in his career, like the sb run by rex?

[SkinsFTW]

There was 0 chance that Shanahan tried to keep JC for his offense.

Anybody who sees him play and thinks that he can even match what Grossman does in this offense is completely off their rocker.

[darrelgreenie]

Anyone who watches how Grossman has played while wearing Burgundy and Gold and attributes his sucess to Grossman and not Mike/Kyle's system is off their rocker.

Rex is still Rex, its the system that makes Rex better (i.e. appear).

Savvy? Its the system not the individual, Rex the individual barely won the job from John Beck a 3rd string QB.

If Jason was better then Rex before Rex played in this system then Jason would be better then Rex if both played in this system.

[Redskins Life]

Anyone who watches how Grossman has played while wearing Burgundy and Gold and attributes his sucess to Grossman and not Mike/Kyle's system is off their rocker.

Rex is still Rex, its the system that makes Rex better (i.e. appear).

Savvy? Its the system not the individual, Rex the individual barely won the job from John Beck a 3rd string QB.

If Jason was better then Rex before Rex played in this system then Jason would be better then Rex if both played in this system.

Jason wasn't better than Rex before Rex was in this system. Sure, Rex has made some boneheaded mistakes (mistakes made by several other young quarterbacks that the media never rode as hard for some reason), but he has proven that he can carry a team on his shoulders. I'm sure you will play the "Chicago Defense" card like all of the other lazy analysts out there. However, if you break down the Bears 2006 season, you will see that the offense (which had much less talent on it than what the Redskins had while Campbell was here) put up numbers in most games that Jason Campbell has only come close to two or three times in his entire NFL career. There were games that Rex bailed that vaunted defense out of, as a matter of fact. And, he carried that offense to the Super Bowl. Jason Campbell has never even carried his unit to a post-season, never mind a Super Bowl.

That was, of course, Rex's first season as a starter and his only season to start 16 games. He had a lot of maturing to do, which I believe he has, but even as a youngster, he made things happen when he was given the chance. Jason Campbell has proven that he cannot match the offensive out put that Grossman could his first year as a starter. And, now with the Redskins, he has been given only his second chance to start. It is not as if Rex has just plain sucked since Chicago. He hasn't had an opportunity until now to show if he has grown or not. Campbell has been given every opportunity to show he has grown, but has proven he is the same mediocre quarterback that he was in 2007, his first year at being the starter game one.

[SirClintonPortis]

Anyone who watches how Grossman has played while wearing Burgundy and Gold and attributes his sucess to Grossman and not Mike/Kyle's system is off their rocker.

Rex is still Rex, its the system that makes Rex better (i.e. appear).

Savvy? Its the system not the individual, Rex the individual barely won the job from John Beck a 3rd string QB.

If Jason was better then Rex before Rex played in this system then Jason would be better then Rex if both played in this system.

It is still Rex's responsibility to LEARN and MASTER the system. Two games in, and I can easily tell that he knows the playbook as well as a physicist knows how to solve kinematics problems. He knows where to go with the football and adjust accordingly to the coverage.

[ncr2h]

Anyone who watches how Grossman has played while wearing Burgundy and Gold and attributes his sucess to Grossman and not Mike/Kyle's system is off their rocker.

Rex is still Rex, its the system that makes Rex better (i.e. appear).

Savvy? Its the system not the individual, Rex the individual barely won the job from John Beck a 3rd string QB.

If Jason was better then Rex before Rex played in this system then Jason would be better then Rex if both played in this system.

How were you able to separate Rex's performance from the system in Chicago? In other words, why are you so confidently able to say "Rex is still Rex", yet we aren't able to say the same for Campbell (whom we've seen in several different offensive systems, all with reasonably underwhelming results)?

[darrelgreenie]

How were you able to separate Rex's performance from the system in Chicago? In other words, why are you so confidently able to say "Rex is still Rex", yet we aren't able to say the same for Campbell (whom we've seen in several different offensive systems, all with reasonably underwhelming results)?

Huh?

When did I say that you or anyone else can't say that Campbell is still Campbell when that is what I myself believe?

I believe that Rex is still Rex and Campbell is still Campbell.

The difference is that you think Campbell isn't or hasn't been a decent QB, I do.

The question posed to me was who I thought would win in an open compeition: my answer is Campbell.

---------- Post added September-20th-2011 at 11:20 AM ----------

First off do you even understand my stance on Campbell or understand the context of the post to which I was responding?

I'm sure you will play the "Chicago Defense" card like all of the other lazy analysts out there. However, if you break down the Bears 2006 season, you will see that the offense (which had much less talent on it than what the Redskins had while Campbell was here) put up numbers in most games that Jason Campbell has only come close to two or three times in his entire NFL career. There were games that Rex bailed that vaunted defense out of, as a matter of fact. And, he carried that offense to the Super Bowl.

Anyway....Lazy is attributing the Bears SB run to Rex.

Heck, Rex was only a part of the offense and the Bears offense wasn't even the driving force behind their SB appearance try Special Teams and Defense.

LoL @ those Bears teams having less talent, let alone much less then Campbell era Skins.

Re: Rex superior numbers: Go look up Rex's SB year vs Campbell last year in Washington.

[ncr2h]

In games with playoff implications:

Grossman (2006): 292/524, 3554 yards, 55.7%, 6.8ypa, 25 TD, 20 INT, 10 fum, 6 lost (17 games in 2006 had playoff implications for Grossman). QB Rating: 76.8 (17 games). 1.5 TD/game, 1.2 INT/game, 0.6 FUM/game, 4.8% TDs/Att, 3.8% Ints/Att, 1.9% fum/att

Campbell (2009): 214/328, 2357 yards, 65.2%, 7.2ypa, 12 TD, 11 INT, 10 fum, 3 lost. QB Rating: 83.3 (11 games). 1.0 TD/game, 0.9 Int/game, 0.8 Fum/game, 3.7% TD/att, 3.4% Int/att, 3.0% Fum/att.

Grossman's offensive skill position players: Muhsin Muhammad (Age 33), Bernard Berrian, Desmond Clark, Thomas Jones

Campbell's offensive skill position players: Santana Moss (Age 30), Malcolm Kelly, Chris Cooley, Clinton Portis

The skins' backup tight end would likely have been the best receiver on that 2006 bears squad.

[NoCalMike]

I look at Campbell and think of a slightly different version of Kyle Orton. The reason Denver fans want to run Orton out of town isn't because he is a horrible QB, it's because Orton is a QB that at best is a game manager who can try and limit mistakes that will cost the team the game when every other aspect of the team seems to be running well, however you'd never expect Orton to go out and lead the offense and win games on his back. Denver fans are willing to take their chances with a worse QB in Tebow, merely because they believe he has a chance to be a playmaker and they'd rather have that, then a game manager.

I can't say I agree with that mentality, just trying to explain it.

[Taylor 36]

In games with playoff implications:

Grossman (2006): 292/524, 3554 yards, 55.7%, 6.8ypa, 25 TD, 20 INT, 10 fum, 6 lost (17 games in 2006 had playoff implications for Grossman). QB Rating: 76.8 (17 games). 1.5 TD/game, 1.2 INT/game, 0.6 FUM/game, 4.8% TDs/Att, 3.8% Ints/Att, 1.9% fum/att

Campbell (2009): 214/328, 2357 yards, 65.2%, 7.2ypa, 12 TD, 11 INT, 10 fum, 3 lost. QB Rating: 83.3 (11 games). 1.0 TD/game, 0.9 Int/game, 0.8 Fum/game, 3.7% TD/att, 3.4% Int/att, 3.0% Fum/att.

Grossman's offensive skill position players: Muhsin Muhammad (Age 33), Bernard Berrian, Desmond Clark, Thomas Jones

Campbell's offensive skill position players: Santana Moss (Age 30), Malcolm Kelly, Chris Cooley, Clinton Portis

The skins' backup tight end would likely have been the best receiver on that 2006 bears squad.

I'm sure DG will find some way to twist this around. I mean, when he didn't bother to post the stats himself, I knew they wouldn't support him. That guy HAS to be related to JC. It is the only rational explanation as to why he would so vehemently back such an average/mediocre QB. This quest of his, which rivals the search for the Holy Grail, is insane.