Jason "Teflon don Campbell

[darrelgreenie]

The stat already adjusts for lack of talent better than the traditional QBR.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/30446/total-qbr-review-nfc-east-week-1

To an extent.

But when the team begins the season with inferior talent then what do you do?

Neither here nor there but I also think they could have done a better job of accounting for sacks.

I think QBs like Cutler and Flacco are punished for their lack of pass protection.

[Commander -JB-]

OP is right. Jason Campbell was given 3+ years here... In his 2nd year in Oakland... What has he done ? Rex Grossman was given one full season, went 13-3, won 2 playoff games & then ---- laughingstock. Whereas Jason Campbell gets constant media support for accomplishing absolutely nothing as a starting QB. He hasn't appeared in a single playoff game, has virtually zero memorable big games, ets. Its ridiculous.

[TheItalianStallion]

Campbell threw a 50 yard TD pass that I was giving him props for until I saw it. The 40+ other passes of his in the game were dumpoffs.

I caught the 2nd half of the game on NFL Replay during the week (missed the 1st half), and most of his throws for 1st downs were at or beyond the sticks. Your post of the play-by-play earlier in this thread supports this (see the "ball caught at X yardline" section of each line). He also had this throw......

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d82259bcc/QB-Campbell-to-WR-Moore-42-yd-pass

I really don't see why you wouldn't give at least some props for the 50-yarder. It was a risky throw, but the WR was past the DBs and the ball was put in a spot where only his guy cold get it. Though I'm more impressed by the throw linked to above.

[SkinsFTW]

Yeah that one was good. I wonder why that WR is wearing JC's number, lol.

[TheItalianStallion]

For some reason I've been having a hard time reaching nfl.com's game logs without my computer acting up, so I was going on memory from when I looked at the game logs last year. I had some details wrong, but my point still stands.

Candle was the OAK QB most of the 2nd, most of the 3rd, and all of the 4th quarter. So the "only 35 mins" is a little deceptive, as most people would think that was describing whole game-time. I guess for him 13/18, 159 YDS, 1 TD is noteworthy, but most would call that a "game manager" performance. Looking the link above, it was the Raiders special teams and Bush's 4 YPC that won the game, not Candle of the short pass and occasional run.

He played for 10 mins in the 2nd (he did have one snap immediately after Grad came out on 3rd & 15 where a draw was called, but I hardly think that counts), 10 in the 3rd, 15 in the 4th. So I suppose you could say it was 40 rather than 35. In the limited time he had, he accounted for significantly more yardage than their rushing attack did in the whole game (111, at 3.7 ypr). 159 yards at 8.8 ypa in 40 mins vs 111 at 3.7 ypr in 60 mins is not indicative of a game manager. Despite the great STs play early on, Oakland still found themselves down by multiple scores (9 pts) in the 2nd half. Enter JC.

Candle had the ball on *3* out of 4 Oakland possessions in the 2nd half, not 2.

My bad. Would've caught this error if I could access the game log. Regardless, 2 out of 3 possessions resulting in long TD drives ain't bad.

On the first TD drive which was 50/50 run/pass plays, Candle had one pass for 58yds, but I have to ask after seeing JC fans here try to claim a long McFadden run after a 2yd Candle pass was a long pass last season, how much of that 58yds was YAC as usual for JC? The TD was a 1yd pass by Candle. The second TD drive was also about 50/50 run/pass 29 run yds to 44 pass yds. Technically most yards were in the air, as normal for a balanced attack, but Bush carried the Raiders as much as Candle did. And keep in mind two touchdowns were scored by a punt block and defensive fumble recovery. Candle was most certainly NOT the sole reason, not even the primary reason the Raiders won that game.

1)The pass to McFadden that you speak of was to a guy who pretty much ran in a straight line once the catch was made. Similar story with the 58 yarder to Murphy vs SD. He caught the ball about 15 yards downfield, was hit in stride, and once the catch was made, he ran toward and down the sidelines without breaking or shaking any would-be tacklers.

2) The 1-yard TD pass was created by JC. Initially no one was open, and it wasn't until he scrambled out and made himself a running threat that the TE came free. Reminded me of that TD throw by Bradford in our loss to STL last year.

3) All but 2 of their 2nd half 1st downs came at the hands (or feet, in 1 instance) of JC. There was also one which was the result of a defensive penalty on a Campbell pass attempt. They were in 2nd & 18 at one point, he got the 1st on passes of 7 and 13 yards. As you concede, most of the yards were thru the air, and as mentioned above, Campbell had nearly 9 ypa, while Raiders rushers had less than 4 ypr.

4) See my comment on STs above.

5) I will concede that my post should've read "were able to come back from a multiscore deficit" rather than "won the game."

attempts to put lipstick on a pig in Candle's performance. 10/16, 117 YDS, 1 TD, another game manager performance. Wow, so only "moron"s ask a QB to actually pass the ball downfield to get credit for pass plays?

And Raiders first half rushing yds for that game: Raiders RBs 59, Candle 39. So no, Candle ran a lot but did NOT have a "majority" of rushing yds that half.

Should've said total yardage, my bad. He accounted for 91 of their total 158 yards in the 1st half. In addition to the 117 yards you listed, he had 37 rushing yards, and if the 22-yard flip to Bush is counted as a pass, it comes out to a yardage total of 176 yards, 2 total TDs, and that's without touching on the long ball to Murphy that should've been a 3rd TD.

JC accounted for 8 of their 11 1st downs/TDs in the 1st half, and 12 of 21 overall (I counted the flip to Bush in favor of JC). Below is the play in question, at 4:40.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpCdvXRIu_s&feature=related

As you can see, Campbell is the one who made that play, and Bush just ran in a straight line once he got the ball. There were numerous similar plays where JC moved around in the pocket, bought himself time, and either threw the ball or took off. He most certainly was the one who was moving the chains for them on their scoring drives, and there's a reason why he received the game ball afterward.

We've talked about Candle's numbers, and whether he's just a game manager or not. Here's some context. Candle puts up two games of just over 100 yds passing, and he's called "the sole reason" the Raiders won those games. Rex Grossman puts up 300+ yd passing in three out of four games he's played for the Skins, and does anybody say he's the "sole reason" for the skins winning any of those games?

He's played 5 games, but as far as our 2 wins this year go: Rex indeed deserves tremendous credit for overcoming multiple big drops, 2 INTs that weren't his fault, a blocked FG, shaky 2nd half 'skins D, en route to a decisive week one win, and a comeback week 2 win. I've been supportive of Grossman since the 2010 preseason.

PS: Gradkowski only saved them in 1 game. Campbell had a better record last year than Grad did, and DMac ran well under both QBs.

PPS: Please forgive the lateness of my reply.

---------- Post added September-24th-2011 at 11:09 PM ----------

Lame. You know I'm talking about coming back in the last two minutes of a game. Like I said, I think he only did it once in his career last year with the Raiders.

I like how your honorable mentions is all about how the defense blew it, but I'm pretty sure the Carolina game is where Sean Taylor was beasting it, but I guess the credit goes to Jason Campbell there.

Your list is just BS.

Your post is just arbitrary, and you didn't say anything about "last 2 minutes of the game." That a comeback doesn't occur in the final 2 minutes doesn't mean it isn't a comeback, and his game-tying TD vs SF in 2008 WAS in the final 2 mins.

Btw in the Carolina game you mentioned, Campbell threw TWO go-ahead TDs in the 4th, not one. So the D blew it after one, but not the second.

[8181]

Your post is just arbitrary, and you didn't say anything about "last 2 minutes of the game." That a comeback doesn't occur in the final 2 minutes doesn't mean it isn't a comeback, and his game-tying TD vs SF in 2008 WAS in the final 2 mins.

Btw in the Carolina game you mentioned, Campbell threw TWO go-ahead TDs in the 4th, not one. So the D blew it after one, but not the second.

Enough with the lame excuses.

With Jason Campbell, we would've lost to the Giants, and you'd be blaming the offensive line for getting sacked at least 4 times, Gano for missing a field goal, the receivers for multiple dropped balls, and the running game for averaging less than 3 yards a carry.

With Jason Campbell, we would've lost to the Cardinals, and you'd be blaming the defense for letting Fitzgerald get a TD, Gano for missing a field goal, and the receivers for supposedly not getting open because Campbell would've thrown it away on fourth down while Moss was wide open in the endzone.

It's not realistic to think your entire team outside of the quarterback position is going to play perfect, and if that's what your quarterback requires to succeed, then he sucks. That's Jason Campbell.

[CRobi21]

Enough with the lame excuses.

With Jason Campbell, we would've lost to the Giants

With Jason Campbell, we would've lost to the Cardinals

Basing arguments off hypothetical situations. Glad to see the JC arguments have improved.

[8181]

Basing arguments off hypothetical situations. Glad to see the JC arguments have improved.

Right, and the JC defense backed by his stunning win/loss record, point average, and playoff performance somehow is tangible evidence in his favor.

[kubstix]

While Rex is light years better than da big JC, wouldn't you throw lots of dumpoffs if your guy was Darren McFadden? I sure would. Maybe it's because I have McFadden in fantasy though.

[PCS]

great googely moogely. Some of you are about to give Ahab a bad name.

[SkinsFTW]

Kurt Warner is a JC hater.

He just said on NFLN pregame show that JC can't make the plays to win against the Jets. Only Michael Irvin picked the Raiders to win.

I'm not sure if he will have to make a lot of plays if that running game does what it has been doing. If not then yeah the Raiders are in trouble.

[Jumbo]

sometimes i just want to shut this down out of embarrassment...but that's not how we do it...

'course i remember the AJskins/Ramsey lovefest days...or on the other hand, mi amigo grande, GhostNibbs, and his deep and dark Brunell loathefest :pfft:

any of you guys remember that stuff and how long it went on even after their departure?

[HogNose]

It's amazing to me how Rex Grossman is constantly mocked and criticized by the media while Campbell, who is an exponentially worse QB gets nothing but sympathy.

I agree with the OP. Campbell constantly had his belly scratched like an old dog after each bad performance, while everyone else was to blame for his "deer in the headlights" reactions and inability to read defenses. I was never a Campbell fan and I never understood why the guy was praised over and over while it was always the Offensive Line or a "new playbook" that took the blame. The media and many fans never criticized Campbell.....all anyone ever said was, .."yeah but he's humble & a nice guy".

[DCranon21]

Jumbo keep this thread going. I find it hilarious that the man is 2 seasons removed and on another team and people are still riding him. I wonder if the Raiders win the AFC West how much credit will he get

[Jumbo]

Jumbo keep this thread going. I find it hilarious that the man is 2 seasons removed and on another team and people are still riding him. I wonder if the Raiders win the AFC West how much credit will he get

A lot by those who are pro-jc of course and none by the anti-jcs. one thing that keeps this going is jc was not an absolutely horrible qb overall nor a very good one overall. this gives both the less discerning and more emotional fan even more fodder to wotk with on such a topic, not that many need any actual "excuse." the number one thig that makes it all so sad is what you note---the guy hasn't been a redskin for two years and wasn't any kind of "great redskin" or "special story" to begin with, so move the **** on or start your own jc website or go post on him at raiderville (is my view).

[PCS]

A few of these folks are dangerously close to making Aj look like he had a short attention span. It's always been an interesting thing to watch,(for a short while anyway),as this has happened a few times in the past,(Ramsey for instance). Unsure of what exactly it is with people,players,and said threads. Could be something as simple as the need to be right,(which we do have a lot of around here). That or they're just bored. Need to get out if that's the case. Ah well. Sure there will be more to follow,(Danny Smith is the odds on favorite right now).

[Seabee1973]

Jumbo keep this thread going. I find it hilarious that the man is 2 seasons removed and on another team and people are still riding him. I wonder if the Raiders win the AFC West how much credit will he get

Non the excuse will be his recievers bailed him out his running backs are great and carried him his defense carried him

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Kerry Collins game-managed the 2008 Titans to a 13-3 record...they used their strong running game and opportunistic defense to keep the wins coming while Collins only threw 12 TDs. If the Raiders keep going like they're going now, they could end up in the same boat.

[tiger187126]

Kerry Collins game-managed the 2008 Titans to a 13-3 record...they used their strong running game and opportunistic defense to keep the wins coming while Collins only threw 12 TDs. If the Raiders keep going like they're going now, they could end up in the same boat.

and i don't see the problem with that. if you are a sound team all around why do you need a great qb? being the other way around can leave you like the colts are right now.

but the same people who said a w/l record is what matters for a qb are the same ones who will say that stats matter more, depending on which side favors them more.

the thing with campbell is, you're not winning in spite of him. he's not going to turnover the ball with alarming frequency and put you in a huge hole. he's just going to go out, do his job and let the playmakers around him do the heavy lifting.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

and i don't see the problem with that. if you are a sound team all around why do you need a great qb? being the other way around can leave you like the colts are right now.

but the same people who said a w/l record is what matters for a qb are the same ones who will say that stats matter more, depending on which side favors them more.

the thing with campbell is, you're not winning in spite of him. he's not going to turnover the ball with alarming frequency and put you in a huge hole. he's just going to go out, do his job and let the playmakers around him do the heavy lifting.

He's definitely fine-tuning his game managing skills lol...Take what's there, don't make any stupid mistakes, occasionally make a needed pay with his arm, and occasionally play a significant role in the wins. That might be enough for the Raiders right now...I actually hope it is, would love for the Raiders, Bills, Lions and Redskins to all be in the conference Championship games this year ...

[tiger187126]

He's definitely fine-tuning his game managing skills lol...Take what's there, don't make any stupid mistakes, occasionally make a needed pay with his arm, and occasionally play a significant role in the wins. That might be enough for the Raiders right now...I actually hope it is, would love for the Raiders, Bills, Lions and Redskins to all be in the conference Championship games this year ...

watching the games so far, i just hope we beat dallas. i mean all week we'll see stories about last years underdogs being top dogs, and i want the redskins up there. it's fun to see your team on ESPN for a good reason even if it is a network of morons.

as for campbell. when you have a big offensive line and a real deal running back you don't have to be elite. you run play action and throw it short to all those 4.3 40 guys that al davis loves.

when you try to get too cute and don't lean on your running game you blow enormous leads for 3 consecutive weeks.

[darrelgreenie]

I love the Raiders offense.

Its oldschool smashmouth.

They enjoy running the ball and create offense from the running game.

I think their offense will only improve when their leading top 2 WRs and starting TE enter the line-up.

[Shanny&Danny]

A running team will never win the SB in today's NFL, it's a passing league and with Candle impersonating a QB you can write the season off from the word go. I'm so happy we dumped that bum, I don't think that I have ever wanted a player off the team so bad.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

>2011

>still thinking that jason campbell is a quality NFL starting QB

>ishygddt

You can make any QB look good if you put him behind a top 3 running game and a top 10 defense.

[SirClintonPortis]

Al Davis is an Air Coryell style guy through and through. Why he is in love with conservative Campbell is a mystery. You know he must be jealous of that Coryell offense there in San Diego.