Jason "Teflon don Campbell

[KDawg]

The way I see things if you make a decision based on 1 gme then it should apply to everyone.

Closed minded thinking here. It's not a decision based on one game. It's a decision based on the last season and now one new game in an offense totally tailored to him. I don't think he's the same McNabb you saw in Philly for a number of reasons. No Reid is one, declining skill/mobility is another.

And if you say that you're not looking at McNabb based on his 1 game w/ the Vikings I don't see how you can look at his career and say that he's done.

His career is a non factor in the discussion. His recent history matters much more. And his recent history disagrees with your position. You think he's still going to be good? Ok, cool. I can't tell you that you're wrong, I can however disagree with you, and I do

His stint in Washington is a statistical abberration.

39 yards and a pick six on his first pass seems to fit right in with that abberation's theme, though.

[ATLredskin]

Jason Campell's last year with the Redskins:

3,618 yards, 20 TDs, 15 INTs, 64.5 completion percentage.

oooo I like this...a dagger post

CLASSIC!!!

[sportjunkie07]

Yup, watching that game brought back some traumatic JC memories. Getting rid of that bum could be the greatest move in franchise history. I would rather sign Rex Grossman to a 20yr $200 million contract extension then see JC take another snap in Skins uniform:)

getting shanny and crew far outshines JC. JC was just part of the problem here. the coaching and management was a far bigger problem.

shanny is methodically and efficiently bringing respect back to this franchise. he has made so many good moves, and so few bad ones. in the future, skins fans will look back at his hiring as the turning point in our franchise.

[ATLredskin]

Campbell played well last night...2 TDs (1 passing, 1 rushing) and no turnovers. It was also raining and the running game was working so there was no need to air it out this game. Campbell is a good man so I don't understand the hate. People are selective with their criticism of former Redskins last night. Big Al played well and Andre Carter is taking advantage of that. Maybe we should talk about that instead of bringing up the bad all the time...

[Kindred]

I think JC makes an excellent backup QB.

[darrelgreenie]

i dont believe JC was underappreciated here. he could not be the leader we needed to get the job done, which is the bottom line.

Do you think someone can lead in situation devoid of leadership and support? I don't.

But, if you want to say that JC wasn't the leader this team needed while he was here I won't disagree.

Given the lack of talent/coaching that is currently being addressed by this new FO and Jason's production in the time while he was here and Jason perception by fans I would say that Jason is underappreciated.

i think you underrate the raiders. they are better setup than what JC had with the skins. elite run game, elite special teams, and a solid defense all in a very bad division (this is critical).

I agree that the Raiders are better set-up on the whole and that's why the won more games.

But I addressed to key deficient areas specifically: pass protection and WR play.

i dont buy the whole receiver situation. i am of the belief that the qb makes the receiver just as much as the receiver makes the qb. you put jacoby ford on a team with a good qb, and he is a near probowler. i think qb's such as campbell limit wide reciever's stats and developement. in other words, campbell will never be on a team with "good receivers", because he will never give them the opportunity to be good. this does not apply to the tight end though, its one of campbell's favorite targets.

You don't have to 'buy' the Raiders WR situation because its true.

You cannot honestly claim they have a good WR corps.

Santana Moss had good seasons with Jason ARE had some of his best seasons with Jason then couldn't even get on the field back with the Steelers.

Lets not pretend that our WRs were great shakes and its clear that the Raiders WRs are much worse.

he is a slightly below average qb.. very mediocre. as long as the rest of the team carries the load, JC will do fine. when teams make JC beat them, his flaws will be exposed.

I would say Jason is an average to slightly above (his stats bear this out) QB that's played under some of worst circumstances a QB could have.

JC has never had the tem talent of Carson Palmer or Matt Cassell or Mark Sanchez but has performed as well as those guys.

[ouvan59]

How about his career?

Are you serious?

Did you watch the rest of his career?

Did you notice that his former coach was well compensated via draft picks? Lets not pretend he gave him away for free.

^^(This is a completely different discussion that Reid has actually addressed and answered on why he traded McNabb)

Why is it so hard to have a discussion in this forum?

His career? Joe Montana had a great career and I don't want him to QB the Skins either. HIs career is coming to an end. And it doesn't matter what you get in draft picks. If you think he will hurt you you don't trade him within the division. McNabb had a great career with Philly. He hasn't been great for a while now however. Or had you forgotten that he was benched there as well.

[darrelgreenie]

Closed minded thinking here. It's not a decision based on one game. It's a decision based on the last season and now one new game in an offense totally tailored to him. I don't think he's the same McNabb you saw in Philly for a number of reasons. No Reid is one, declining skill/mobility is another.

How is it closed minded when I said IF?

If meaning I don't know how you view it but if.......

His career is a non factor in the discussion. His recent history matters much more. And his recent history disagrees with your position. You think he's still going to be good? Ok, cool. I can't tell you that you're wrong, I can however disagree with you, and I do

How career has to be a non-factor if you're gonna claim that he's done.

Where did I say I think he's gonna be good?

I clearly stated I'm willing to wait and see as opposed to writing him off.

Never said anyone couldn't or shouldn't disgree, I'm always more interested in the reasons then the actual disagreement because I'm actually interested in other peoples views.

39 yards and a pick six on his first pass seems to fit right in with that abberation's theme, though.

It sure does but....

That the INT came from a tipped pass.

And as you know as a coach QBs amass their yards by drives.

But the Vikings drives were short Peterson broke of a long run on one scoring drive.

Harvin scored on a KR TD for another score those are hidden yards that McNabb couldn't gain.

Not to mention the Chargers are the No.1 defense in the NFL.

[Hooper]

I think of ton of folks in the media don't watch the games and just look at JC's stats, which are usually pretty good. Of course, he often pads them in the fourth quarter.

Great guy by all accounts. I wanted him to succeed here for so long and for a long time made tons of excuses for him. But the fact is no matter the scheme or the personnel he has been the same QB. He plays not to lose instead of to win. He never attacks a defense. He is the king of throwing for five yards when it's 3rd and 7. It is brutal to watch.

The Oakland Raider message boards are hilarious. Like someone else said, it's like they just cut and pasted stuff from old threads here.

[pjfootballer]

So now this game is the sum of Campbell's career in Oakland? Not any of the games against the Chargers? LoL.

The level of hate for Campbell is funny.

As is the level of Love you show for him.

[darrelgreenie]

McNabb had a great career with Philly. He hasn't been great for a while now however. Or had you forgotten that he was benched there as well.

Awhile meaning last year? Because the year prior he was in the pro-bowl.

You're right he's been benched as has Elway, Montana, Young, Favre etc..etc...

[pjfootballer]

Here is one thing that's different about Campbell, though...he's 7-0 against division rivals now.

Suckier division.

[darrelgreenie]

As is the level of Love you show for him.

Yep, I said Jason is an average to slightly above average QB.

Whatever level of love that equates to........

[TheItalianStallion]

But, if you want to say that JC wasn't the leader this team needed while he was here I won't disagree.

I won't either.

Santana Moss had good seasons with Jason ARE had some of his best seasons with Jason then couldn't even get on the field back with the Steelers.

Lets not pretend that our WRs were great shakes and its clear that the Raiders WRs are much worse.

That, and Cooley's #s were better wiith Campbell than they were with Collins, Brunell, Ramsey, or McNabb.

Regarding the Raiders' pass catchers, they're missing Murphy & Boss at the moment. I suspect they'll be more willing to let Campbell throw the ball around when they return. IIRC Murphy returned in time for the 2nd SD game last year, when JC put up great performances vs SD & JAX.

[Yeen80]

Jason will always be a pretty average/decent QB. Nothing more, nothing less

[pjfootballer]

Yep, I said Jason is an average to slightly above average QB.

Whatever level of love that equates to........

And I don't hate the guy, nor do I think he sucks. He is what he is and he wasn't the right fit here for us. Looks like he's found a home in Oakland and I guess I should blame myself for posting in here, but this debate about Checkdown Charlie is getting old. I think I'll just ignore these threads for now on.

[TheItalianStallion]

Suckier division.

2 of Oakland's 3 division rivals had winning records last year. KC was 10-6 overall (10-4 against teams other than Oakland), SD was 9-7 (9-5 against teams other than Oakland). Though I've suspected for a while that KC would regress this year. They've done nothing to change my mind yet.

[ouvan59]

Awhile meaning last year? Because the year prior he was in the pro-bowl.

You're right he's been benched as has Elway, Montana, Young, Favre etc..etc...

Andre Gurode was in the Pro Bowl last year and he just got cut.

[sportjunkie07]

Do you think someone can lead in situation devoid of leadership and support? I don't.

Given the lack of talent/coaching that is currently being addressed by this new FO and Jason's production in the time while he was here and Jason perception by fans I would say that Jason is underappreciated.

i disagree that he is underappreciated. for every JC hater, there was a JC homer. he was a 1st round qb pick, was slowly brought into the system, and had a legit chance to shine hear, especially when the oline and running game was good in his early years.

our team did have big problems during JC's tenure, but a competent qb could have addressed those issues at least somewhat. an elite qb is gonna shine no matter what. put peyton, brady, or rivers on the skins during JC's time, and we are legit playoff contenders every year.

You don't have to 'buy' the Raiders WR situation because its true.

You cannot honestly claim they have a good WR corps.

no im not saying their receivers are great, for instance, DHB should not get the playing time that he has, he was way overdrafted and still has a lot to learn. i am saying that JC never makes anything of his WRs. he doesnt give them the opportunity to shine. Jacoby Ford is really good, that guy should have a 1000 yrd+ season, but he wont with JC throwing him the ball.

Santana Moss had good seasons with Jason ARE had some of his best seasons with Jason then couldn't even get on the field back with the Steelers.

Moss' production was ruined by Campbell. Moss went from 1483 yards in 05' to averaging around 900 per year with JC, despite being in his prime in the Campbell years. somehow though (as i predicted) moss put up higher numbers last year than he ever did with Campbell, despite slowly losing his biggest strength, which is speed.. coincidence? i think not.

Randle El stats are nothing special, and for a number two reciever that plays every game, they are average/below average. (though i will concede this is just as much on EL as it is on JC).

I would say Jason is an average to slightly above (his stats bear this out) QB that's played under some of worst circumstances a QB could have.

JC has never had the tem talent of Carson Palmer or Matt Cassell or Mark Sanchez but has performed as well as those guys.

the problem with stats is, you can use them to support almost any argument, you know that. i think you have to take a look at the player... he doesnt pass the "eye test" imo, and he certaintly did not for shanny.

if you view him as a slightly above average qb.. im fine with your opinion. but ill disagree; id rather have rex, beck, or really anyone else as our starting qb, because i know JC will never get the job done.

[gortiz]

It's amazing to me how Rex Grossman is constantly mocked and criticized by the media while Campbell, who is an exponentially worse QB.

stopped reading right there ...

the ****ing dude moved to the west coast and his balls are still being broken? leave it the **** alone already.

jesus.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

classic campbell performance last night.

- checkdowns all over the place

- poor passes beyond 15 yards

- obligatory fumble

- obligatory dump off TD pass

- poor YPA (4.77 good enough for 3rd worst in week 1)

- leaning on huge run performance

raiders won because mcfadden and bush yet again carried them to victory with 190 on the ground. as soon as a defense can stop that ground game, the raiders will fall apart, just like campbell did here when portis/betts couldnt carry the load.

and side note, that was a horrid game. 25 ****ing penalties, so stupid. 126 total plays by both teams, 25 flags. thats a flag every 5 plays. so ridiculous.

[Highway66]

Jason will always be a pretty average/decent QB. Nothing more, nothing less

i agree... why all the hate on jason campbell.. on a scale of one to 10 he is a flat 5.... kinda like Norv Turner in the coaching relm

[gortiz]

How has JC had a better career than Grossman? He has never had a winning record or even sniffed the playoffs let alone the SB?

before i kill myself ...someone explain this to me and answer these two simple questions.

Did Vinny and Danny do a good job running the skins during Jason's tenure here? YES OR NO.

Did Vinny, Danny and the headcoaches here during Jason's tenure do a good job developing him? YES OR NO.

you can't have both. the skins were a rudderless shipwreck of a team while jason was a qb here, how in the world could you have expected any qb to sustain CONSISTENT success and progress during that time?, key word is consistent ... don't give me any todd collins BS.

[Destino]

How has JC had a better career than Grossman? He has never had a winning record or even sniffed the playoffs let alone the SB?

Careers:

Rex Grossman. 9th year in the league. 42 appearances in games.

619/1138 (54.4%) 7386yards 175.9yards/game 6.2avg 42TDs 40Int 72.1rating

Jason Campbell. 7th year in the league. 66 appearances in games

1209/1988 (60.8%) 13352yards 202.3yards/game 6.7avg 69TDs 46Int 82.7rating

That's how.

Personally I think JC is a "game manager" QB that can't win games but instead tries to avoid glaring mistakes so that other aspects of the team can win the game. The reality is that Rex has had 9 years in the league and has started 8 or more games exactly one time. Rex needs time on the field before he can prove himself, until then let the haters hate. They'll see what Shanahan sees eventually (i hope).

[darrelgreenie]

our team did have big problems during JC's tenure, but a competent qb could have addressed those issues at least somewhat. an elite qb is gonna shine no matter what. put peyton, brady, or rivers on the skins during JC's time, and we are legit playoff contenders every year.

I think I've identified our fundamental difference in the bolded statement.

i am saying that JC never makes anything of his WRs....Jacoby Ford is really good, that guy should have a 1000 yrd+ season, but he wont with JC throwing him the ball.

I think this is an obviously false statement but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Moss has had 1,000 season w/ Campbell ARE had the best years of his career w/ Campbell and ARE isn't even good.

If the Raiders have a WR w/ 1,000 yard potential Campbell can get them there.

Which brings us back to my point: The only difference between the Raiders and the Redskins is the running game.

The Raiders have worse WRs and their pass protection was almost as bad.

I'm not sure why its hard for you to concede that the Raiders have less talent then we had at WR when Jason was here.

And I'll presume by your silence on the matter that you concede that their pass protection isn't better either?

moss put up higher numbers last year than he ever did with Campbell, despite slowly losing his biggest strength, which is speed.. coincidence? i think not.

Actually this is not true check Jason+Moss in 2008.

BTW-Of course its not a coincidence that Moss numbers improves over last year.(although I disagree that Moss is losing his speed, speed persists.)

180 degree improvement at both OT spots.

A much improved offesive scheme.

The best #2 WR this franchise has since a long while in Armstrong.

These are the reasons why Moss numbers improved.

but ill disagree; id rather have rex, beck, or really anyone else as our starting qb, because i know JC will never get the job done.

Never said I wanted JC as our starting QB this year.

Our difference is that I don't think Jason has reached his ceiling as a QB.