Teller Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 If you write off McNabb after the 1st game then you need to be ready to crown Cam Newton. I know you weren't talking to me, but I've written McNabb off after an entire season of watching him up close. How has JC had a better career than Grossman? He has never had a winning record or even sniffed the playoffs let alone the SB? Grossman made it to the Super Bowl because of the Bears defense, not because he put the team on his shoulders. Not trying to talk ****, and I hope he's successful here, but to give him the credit for the Bears SB trip is pretty ridiculous, IMO. He was a Dilfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Not necessarily..........McNabb is a guy who whined himself out of DC and played poorly there, and then went to his new team and set a new low in terms of poor play...So you're not writing off McNabb or you are?Because that is my point:I'm not ready to write him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 So you're not writing off McNabb or you are?Because that is my point:I'm not ready to write him off. I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCranon21 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Jason is in Oakland and still receives hate from some of the fans. It's funny Actually he's looked good out there in Oakland, just because he didn't pass for 300+ yards, but still came out with the W. How about a running game that racked up close to 200 on the ground and playing with the lead had a lot to do with it. This happened last season if you paid any attention to the Raiders last season. But let the hate continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Watching that game last night was a carbon copy of what we saw when JC was here. Not surprising considering they have picked up half of our team over the last two years ... Jason Campbell Rock Cartwright Stephon Heyer Al Saunders I half expect them to convince McFadden to start dressing up in costumes for press conferences lol... ---------- Post added September-13th-2011 at 08:38 AM ---------- Here is one thing that's different about Campbell, though...he's 7-0 against division rivals now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I am. And I'm willing to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 And I'm willing to wait and see. Okay? I just said that you don't have to crown Newton if you're going to write off McNabb. Not sure I implied you were wrong in waiting to see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Jason is in Oakland and still receives hate from some of the fans. It's funny Actually he's looked good out there in Oakland, just because he didn't pass for 300+ yards, but still came out with the W. How about a running game that racked up close to 200 on the ground and playing with the lead had a lot to do with it. This happened last season if you paid any attention to the Raiders last season. But let the hate continue he did what he needed to do this game, which is fine. it was a good performance for a game manager. but to think that he has been good in oakland or has progressed.. youve gotta watch the games. i watched 5 or 6 last year.. he is the same player. read the raiders message board posts, its the same debate that raged here for 4 years. fortuanately, oaklands rushing attack and special teams are elite.. when they are on, the raiders will probably win, if they are off, JC will have to beat the opposing team, and it just isnt going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Jason Campbell is not an exponentially worse QB than Rex Grossman, that's just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Okay? I just said that you don't have to crown Newton if you're going to write off McNabb.Not sure I implied you were wrong in waiting to see... The way I see things if you make a decision based on 1 gme then it should apply to everyone.And if you say that you're not looking at McNabb based on his 1 game w/ the Vikings I don't see how you can look at his career and say that he's done. His stint in Washington is a statistical abberration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 IIf you write off McNabb after the 1st game then you need to be ready to crown Cam Newton. One game? Are you serious? Did you not watch last season? Did you not notice that his former coach was more than happy to trade him withiin the division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Campbell is what he is: an average starter; a game manager. He isn't terrible and won't lose you games but he'll seldom if ever go out and make the big play to win you the game. The Raiders are pretty much a carbon copy of the 2008 Redskins. Strong running game, decent receivers, and a good defense. Just like they went 8-8 last year, they'll probably go 8-8 again this year. Shame too because if they had a better QB they could contend for the division. Their defense might actually be better than ours was back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 The way I see things if you make a decision based on 1 gme then it should apply to everyone.And if you say that you're not looking at McNabb based on his 1 game w/ the Vikings I don't see how you can look at his career and say that he's done. His stint in Washington is a statistical abberation. i tend to agree with kdawg. i dont expect every peformance to be like last week's, but mcnabb has lost a lot of what made him good. his mobility and accuracy have been declining for years imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 he did what he needed to do this game, which is fine. it was a good performance for a game manager. but to think that he has been good in oakland or has progressed.. youve gotta watch the games. i watched 5 or 6 last year.. he is the same player. read the raiders message board posts, its the same debate that raged here for 4 years. fortuanately, oaklands rushing attack and special teams are elite.. when they are on, the raiders will probably win, if they are off, JC will have to beat the opposing team, and it just isnt going to happen. I don't think it was a good performance by JC or by a game manager.And I do watch some Raiders games and I agree that Jason is the same QB he was here, underappreciated (although not by the Raiders). The only difference between the Raiders and the Redskins is the running game. The Raiders have worse WRs and their pass protection was almost as bad. JC has played for 2 of the worst franchises in the NFL yet he's managed to play about average. That alone is a testament to the fact that he's clearly not as bad as everyone here likes to make him out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 to the average fan, average media personnel, JC is mobile, big, athletic, has a good arm, has a high completion percentage, and doesnt make many turnovers. this skillset leads one to think that he has an ideal skillset, and it is enough in their mind to label him an above average qb. for instance i have a buddy who is very knowleageable about sports, he cannot understand why i dont like JC's style of play. shoot, even many skins fans said last year that JC was doing really well in oakland.. i watched a bunch of their games, and it was the same JC, just as it was last night.it takes a little more knowledge of how he plays to understand his shortcomings, which are many. as our nfc east foes found out, JC is easy to beat, stack the box and stop the run, forcing JC to beat you. there are just too many throws which JC cannot make. for instance, why can JC not throw a slant? this boggled my mind. opposing teams would blitz him all day and he would never utilize this quick throw to keep them honest. same with the deep ball, it could be nfl worst. no touch, no accuracy, and little understanding of where to place the ball in regard to defenders. the 3rd and long pass. this is a near guarantee to be thrown 3 to 4 yards short of the first down, JC expects the receiver or running back to make the play. if he does make the throws above, 9/10 the player is wide open.. he just doesnt thread the needle. his decision making and reads are very slow and predictable. he maybe audibled a handful of times in his career at washington. my biggest beef with him is that he plays not to lose. JC just wont beat you; he will rarely throw into tight coverage or make the big pass that his team needs. he just isnt capable of making the tough nfl throws and is probably the last qb in the league id want on my team if your staging a late comeback. in his favor, oakland is probably the best team for him to be on. top 2 or 3 run game, top 5 special teams, and a decent defense. he will be a game manager in this defense, as he was last night. as long as the other team doesnt shut down the run game, oakland will win. the above method will not work vs. good teams in the playoffs, which is why JC will never take his team anywhere and why i am glad he is not the qb of the redskins. This is the perfect summation of all that is wrong with Campbell. I also add that he has the slowest dropback in the NFL; terrible mechanics, and he's too dumb to read NFL defenses. He just sits there with that glazed look in his eyes. The guy cannot throw a pass between the hashmarks. It's really incredible that he's still a starter in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 So now this game is the sum of Campbell's career in Oakland? Not any of the games against the Chargers? LoL.The level of hate for Campbell is funny. You act like we don't have a mountain of evidence on Jason Campbell. Last night's game was not atypical. When Oakland runs the ball they win. When they have to pass they lose. I don't hate Campbell. I just know what he is as a QB and I don't want him to QB my team. I hope he has tons of success and proves everybody wrong but it's just not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 One game? Are you serious? Did you not watch last season? Did you not notice that his former coach was more than happy to trade him withiin the division?How about his career?Are you serious? Did you watch the rest of his career? Did you notice that his former coach was well compensated via draft picks? Lets not pretend he gave him away for free. ^^(This is a completely different discussion that Reid has actually addressed and answered on why he traded McNabb) Why is it so hard to have a discussion in this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I know you weren't talking to me, but I've written McNabb off after an entire season of watching him up close.Grossman made it to the Super Bowl because of the Bears defense, not because he put the team on his shoulders. Not trying to talk ****, and I hope he's successful here, but to give him the credit for the Bears SB trip is pretty ridiculous, IMO. He was a Dilfer. Grossman threw for over 3,000 yrds and 20 tds the year the Bears went to the SB. Yes, their defense was sick, but he helped lead the offensive charge. Campbell has never lead a team, nor will he ever lead a team. He's a wholly ineffective player at the most important position on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 You act like we don't have a mountain of evidence on Jason Campbell. Last night's game was not atypical. When Oakland runs the ball they win. When they have to pass they lose. I don't hate Campbell. I just know what he is as a QB and I don't want him to QB my team. I hope he has tons of success and proves everybody wrong but it's just not going to happen.Did you see the post I was replying to? I never said you hated Campbell. Did I say I wanted him for my team? My point was straight forward:Picking this one game to sum up Campbell as a Raider is no more accurate as picking a game where he played really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 How about his career?Are you serious? Did you watch the rest of his career? Did you notice that his former coach was well compensated via draft picks? Lets not pretend he gave him away for free. ^^(This is a completely different discussion that Reid has actually addressed and answered on why he traded McNabb) Why is it so hard to have a discussion in this forum? It's not, unless you expect everyone to just tell you you're right. McNabb's been very good over the years. But I don't think it's unreasonable at all to say that he's on a steep downhill slide. The NFL is a performance league. It's not a "yes, but look what I did three years ago" league. Until and unless he proves he's still the QB he was...well, he's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanny&Danny Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 This is the perfect summation of all that is wrong with Campbell. I also add that he has the slowest dropback in the NFL; terrible mechanics, and he's too dumb to read NFL defenses. He just sits there with that glazed look in his eyes. The guy cannot throw a pass between the hashmarks. It's really incredible that he's still a starter in this league. Yup, watching that game brought back some traumatic JC memories. Getting rid of that bum could be the greatest move in franchise history. I would rather sign Rex Grossman to a 20yr $200 million contract extension then see JC take another snap in Skins uniform:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 It's not, unless you expect everyone to just tell you you're right.McNabb's been very good over the years. But I don't think it's unreasonable at all to say that he's on a steep downhill slide. The NFL is a performance league. It's not a "yes, but look what I did three years ago" league. Until and unless he proves he's still the QB he was...well, he's not. I expect to have a discussion, which requires people to disagree without being dissmissive but I digress...I'll take the wait and see approach considering his career success before I write him off and I count last season as what it was compared to the rest of his career an abberration. For me McNabb doesn't have to prove that he's still a good QB, based on his career I'll grant him at least that. Just an admin note he was in the pro-bowl the year before he came to Washington, so its not 3 years ago. -HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Grossman threw for over 3,000 yrds and 20 tds the year the Bears went to the SB. Yes, their defense was sick, but he helped lead the offensive charge. Campbell has never lead a team, nor will he ever lead a team. He's a wholly ineffective player at the most important position on the field. 3193 yards, 23 TDs, 20 INTs. If that's leading a team to a SB, then I guess I don't want a leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Grossman threw for over 3,000 yrds and 20 tds the year the Bears went to the SB. Yes, their defense was sick, but he helped lead the offensive charge. Campbell has never lead a team, nor will he ever lead a team. He's a wholly ineffective player at the most important position on the field. Jason Campell's last year with the Redskins: 3,618 yards, 20 TDs, 15 INTs, 64.5 completion percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I don't think it was a good performance by JC or by a game manager.And I do watch some Raiders games and I agree that Jason is the same QB he was here, underappreciated (although not by the Raiders). The only difference between the Raiders and the Redskins is the running game. The Raiders have worse WRs and their pass protection was almost as bad. JC has played for 2 of the worst franchises in the NFL yet he's managed to play about average. That alone is a testament to the fact that he's clearly not as bad as everyone here likes to make him out to be. i dont believe JC was underappreciated here. he could not be the leader we needed to get the job done, which is the bottom line. i think you underrate the raiders. they are better setup than what JC had with the skins. elite run game, elite special teams, and a solid defense all in a very bad division (this is critical). i dont buy the whole receiver situation. i am of the belief that the qb makes the receiver just as much as the receiver makes the qb. you put jacoby ford on a team with a good qb, and he is a near probowler. i think qb's such as campbell limit wide reciever's stats and developement. in other words, campbell will never be on a team with "good receivers", because he will never give them the opportunity to be good. this does not apply to the tight end though, its one of campbell's favorite targets. he is a slightly below average qb.. very mediocre. as long as the rest of the team carries the load, JC will do fine. when teams make JC beat them, his flaws will be exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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