Yahoo: Florida Drug Testing for Welfare Applicants

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Question: Sould Social Security recipients (which is - in fact - everyone at some point) be drug tested?

Social Security is a welfare program too.

[PleaseBlitz]

Question: Sould Social Security recipients (which is - in fact - everyone at some point) be drug tested?

Social Security is a welfare program too.

1, all those old folks are on drugs. My grandmother takes like 30 pills a day.

2. all those folks paid into the system and are now taking out. So its not the same thing as welfare except for the part were you say it is.

3. The AARP would annihilate any bill that tried to pull that. Poor drug addicts arent politically organized enough.

[Kilmer17]

1, all those old folks are on drugs. My grandmother takes like 30 pills a day.

2. all those folks paid into the system and are now taking out. So its not the same thing as welfare except for the part were you say it is.

3. The AARP would annihilate any bill that tried to pull that. Poor drug addicts arent politically organized enough.

Sure they are, the Democrat Party has offices in every major US city.

I keed. I keed.

[redskinss]

I currently have two jobs and both are subject to random drug testing.

no exageration, i have had five random drug tests over the past 14 months in order to maintain my eligibility to work at them, so if these people are looking for sympathy from me to get free money that came out of my paycheck that I had to take five drug tests in order to earn they will find it in the dictionary right between s#%t and syphilus.

[allannis]

You forgot being desperately poor, and that you get "paid" a pittance.

They aren't getting paid for being stupid. They aren't getting paid for doing drugs. They are getting paid because they need to eat. Even stupid people who make mistakes and do drugs and can't hold down a job and who yell too loud on the sidewalk and who don't take showers and screw up in every possible way need to eat.

Maybe drug testing would help identify a problem that helps keep them in their conditition. I would think helping an addict get off drugs would be a good start to a better life. instead just handing them money enables them to continue. However that being said, there are many who play the system to continue the lifestyle.

[DeaconTheVillain]

1, all those old folks are on drugs. My grandmother takes like 30 pills a day.

2. all those folks paid into the system and are now taking out. So its not the same thing as welfare except for the part were you say it is.

3. The AARP would annihilate any bill that tried to pull that. Poor drug addicts arent politically organized enough.

Something that just crossed my mind, false positives happen in drug testing....more frequently for those who are prescribed than those who aren't. I see lots of lawsuits in the future of FL

[allannis]

Allannis, do you think welfare lets them live at the Ritz? Do you ever talk to these people?

Last fall, I was lucky enough to have lunch with a homeless man. Subway was offering the footlong for $5 of the sub I wanted anyways, so I invited him in and offered him the rest of the sub and my soda which my belly does not need. I spent my 45min just asking him about his life, where he spent nghts, his family, etc. Over and over, our conversation would lapse into his rythmic "It's all going to be OK because the world is good because the word is good, and the word is good because God is good." My crappy day was put in a completely different light. As terrible as it felt when I headed out, I still had a nice home with a beautiful wife and 2 kids to which I would go home. I randomly ran into him outside another restaurant the next day. He remembered me, but he couldn't answer basic questions like "What would make today a great day for you? What would be perfect? Do you know how to find a mens' shelter?"

Since that day I have carried the number of mens shelter hotline in my cell phone because I failed him the second day. I was busy, but not so busy I shouldn't have walked back across the street and take a few hours of leave to go find him shelter.

These people you mock thinking their life is easy because they can get welfare probably live a life 100x harder than all but a handful of people posting on this board. Some go off to war. Others fight wars within their heads without ever even taking a step outside. The lucky ones like the man I met can be happy with very little. I don't lose sleep over anything of mine helping to give him the little he needs. I lose sleep over my unwillingness to help him when I could/should have.

Who did I mock? many homeless are not on welfare or drug addicts,however drug testing could help the people who are having problems, better thier life, instead of just giving them money to ease our minds at bedtime. I have given alot of food to the homeless, I understand some people need help, Just giving money to drug addicts enables them to continue in an unhealthy lifestyle.The man you spoke to seems to need more than just food.

[Xameil]

I'm torn on this....

on one hand it really isnt the governments business what you do in your home...however, it is their business if you are getting money from them....

I may also be biased in some ways since, i know someone who didn't use their food stamps and any other public assistence they received to feed and get diapers for their kids...they instead used the money to go out and drink (which isn't illegal).

Maybe anyone who gets money from the government needs to be able to account for everything they spend that money on.

[kubstix]

I'm torn on this....

on one hand it really isnt the governments business what you do in your home...however, it is their business if you are getting money from them....

I may also be biased in some ways since, i know someone who didn't use their food stamps and any other public assistence they received to feed and get diapers for their kids...they instead used the money to go out and drink (which isn't illegal).

Maybe anyone who gets money from the government needs to be able to account for everything they spend that money on.

I like someone else idea on this. They need to give out some sort of prepaid card or whatever instead of receiving a check that can cash. I don't know any place anymore that doesn't accept Visa. If they don't like it, tough ****. They can go out and get a real job, pay taxes like the rest of us hardworking americans, and receive a real paycheck they can go out and cash.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I really would like to have the biggest welfare queens, i.e corporations that were saved by the government, their boards and CEOs drug tested prior to receiving stock payouts

And didn't we change welfare back in 1996 anyway? Why does this issue even come up anymore?

[Major Harris]

lkb blaming racial biases, larry blaming the gop, predicto and bang making sense...this thread has it all.

i understand the reasoning behind this, but the arguments against it make way too much sense....it's just not going to end in a net positive, imo. this was proposed in wv a few years ago, but died before going to vote.

[Thiebear]

If a drug addicted person is raising children whilst living in a slum, the children should be removed from their care immediately, and not returned until the parent(s) get themselves sorted out.

The parents can then go one of two ways - get their own life in order, get clean, get themselves a home, or, continue the way they are and have their kids raised by caring, responsible adults in a foster home. Not too hard to choose.

Catch22:

I don't want to intrude on peoples lives and dictate who lives correctly: Drugs/alcohol/food/physical/mental abuse/neglect.

And I would like for the children to spend as much time with their family as they can, but your post is correct.

I would just ask we use caution in our outrage on whom we give 600$

and focus more on who we gave 60million to dole out in 600$ increments.

[HailGreen28]

As an adoptive parent whose home will be the foster home for another fostered kid in August, I call BS. There aren't enough foster homes. It took us 2 and 3 years to adopt our kids, and ours were cut and dry cases so the costs of just adopting are high. Read about the Orphanages and Boys and Girls Homes. Read some of the accounts of people going through them (Hope's Boy is one of my favorites or you can read some of the books on the Raven's Ohr (not just the movie)). Even if one makes a huge stretch and stipulates that options exist, you should probably look at the impact of spearating a kid from their biological family. There are HUGE attachment issues both for the moms and the kids. Just read Primal Wound for some basic research even though it is a tough sell/read for those who want emotional justice. It just doesn't exist. There probably are issues for dads too. I just don't know the research as well.

So now you have separated the kids from the bio family and are paying a stipend which is more than you would have paid to the parent. How sure of the better outcome are you, and how are you defining better?

On the "they aren't really going hungry" argument which seems to be common, the numbers seem to vary depending on the search, but it's either 37 million or 38 million in the U.S. are food source insecure.

One link to a large study: http://feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/hunger-studies/hunger-study-2010.aspx

Such options DO exist everywhere, which options including some I haven't listed depending on location.

The real stretches are thinking a child in a bad situation must always be taken from their biological family not just the parent; and that it's more expensive to support 5 kids than 5 kids and a drug addicted mother. Those are your assumptions.

I'm defining "better" as what's best for the kids. Isn't that always the criteria on welfare issues like these?

[allannis]

If being a drug-addicted person living in a slum and trying to raise children on $600 a month is not rock bottom' date=' what pray tell is?[/quote']

Being drug addicted, living in a slum,and trying to raise children without $600 dollars a month.

[China]

From Georgia:

Editorial: Drug testing bill could get interesting

If it gets a serious hearing in the state legislative session that begins today, a bill filed by a Democratic state legislator in the Republican-dominated Georgia General Assembly could have some interesting implications for the state’s open records laws.

Clearly a political response to legislative proposals filed in both the state House and state Senate that would subject applicants for public assistance to drug testing, a bill filed by Atlanta Democrat Scott Holcomb would subject legislators to drug testing.

Holcomb’s bill should, then, get a serious hearing, insofar as it would show that lawmakers — who, like welfare recipients, are the recipients of taxpayers’ dollars — are willing to subject themselves to the same conditions under which they’d disburse taxpayers’ dollars to other citizens of this state.

Click on the link for the full article

[LadySkinsFan]

The problem is that instead of having treatment programs in place to treat those who test positive, what happens is that they automatically don't qualify for ANY aid. Now that doesn't solve any problems, they don't get what they need to survive and instead they end up on the street starving to death, selling their bodies for food, no shelter.

We are not very giving to people in need, but we do know how to spend money fighting illegal wars and giving foreign aid to countries who spit in our face, and to the corporate whores who don't need the money paid to them as subsidies or they don't pay taxes due to all their writeoffs.

[Thiebear]

I don't care what a person on welfare does or does not:

Anyone found to be literally drug addled:

Found out with private sector or public sector jobs if they notice the change in behaviour

If you get Welfare as your job you should be allowed to drug test if showing distress during regular discussions on job progress.

They should live by the same standards during this practice period until they hopefully one day get a job.

Having children just ups the ante as you can't raise two if your on the heavy stuff quite often.

And again this is about being equal between jobs as your are on the job.

You should get the same treatment though you'd get in a regular job to ensure your ready for that next opportunity.

[China]

Welfare Drug Tests Cost Florida $46K

And didn't uncover all that many drug users, either: new data

(Newser) – Remember that controversial Florida law requiring welfare seekers to submit to drug tests? Turns out it didn't save taxpayers any money, didn't affect the number of applications, and didn't even ferret out very many drug users, the New York Times reports. During the four months the tests were given, just 2.6% of applicants failed, mostly for marijuana use. Everyone who passed was reimbursed for the cost of the test—which totaled $118,140, or more than the state would have paid in benefits to those who failed, according to an ACLU director. That means the program actually cost the government $45,780.

Click on the link for the full article

[twa]

I read somewhere a number refused the test and the number applying spiked greatly after they quit.

perhaps a larger window would give a clearer picture?

[The Evil Genius]

That means the program actually cost the government $45,780.

Awesome.

I wonder how much the voter fraud investigations that result in very little end up costing?

[twa]

Hmm

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2012/04/drug-testing-and-public-assistance-in-florida.html

Judge Mary Scriven issued the injunction in late October, and by December, applications for Temporary Assistance for Needy Families reached 146,020, a 10.5 percent increase from November. The total amount paid out by the Department of Children and Families, the state agency that administers the program, increased 7.9 percent to $12.5 million – by far the largest month-to-month increase for at least a decade. Since then, the monthly TANF payout has held steady between $12.58 million and $12.62 million in the first three months of 2012.

These guys are trying to make a living in online publishing, so hit their link for more. A state spokesperson says that most of the jump was for other reasons, but we do note this:

About 2,000 of the 13,914-application increase in December came from people who were eligible for benefits but refused to take the drug test, Follick said.

[Larry]

So, your argument is that the drug testing program increased costs for the first welfare program, and increased costs for the second welfare program, and therefore it should be expanded?

How . . . Republican.

[twa]

No, it is that a large % avoided the test casting the numbers in doubt,especially coupled with the spike afterwards

\

Kinda like unemployment numbers it helps to look further than the surface,or proving voter fraud w/o a ID requirement

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

So, your argument is that the drug testing program increased costs for the first welfare program, and increased costs for the second welfare program, and therefore it should be expanded?

Ah, welfare recipients....so shifty.......