Tweedr01 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 We should pepper spray Grand Theft Auto. like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 The kid sure didn't look any worse for the experience. Seems like a lot of hollering over nothing. I agree with Henry in that special needs kids require special attention, and i agree with HH in that the police defused the situation without injuring anyone, and that 8 ys old or not, anyone in the sort of rage that allows them to rip a piece of molding out with their bare hands is someone you have to be careful with. Try it,, go try to pull a piece of molding off in your house. Could it have been handled differently? Sure, most situations can,, there's always a better way after the event. But the bottom line is: danger ended, no one hurt, kid is safe. Whether the kid would have died.. that's a risk everyone takes every day. The stuff is designed to do exactly what it did,, incapacitate without harm,, and as i said, on the news last night little Aidan looked fine when he told us all that he "wanted something sharp in case they came out of there." The teachers .. i'd want to know how he got molding off the wall without one of them managing to restrain him before then. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 You are right that these things have always happened. I remember a girl had a meltdown in junior high, but she wasn't violent, just depressed and didn't want anyone to go near her. Everytime the teacher or administrator came near her, she screamed like it was bloody murder. Maybe the frequency is more nowadays. And like I said, I cannot remember this many kids being "special needs." When you were in the remedial classes, you just needed a Red Foreman foot up your ass. There are a lotta kids who could use this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 On a related note Bang gets a cookie for proper use of "defused" instead of the wtf? choice of "diffused" in the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I think the question for those who are reminiscing about th good ol' days when a swift kick in the kid's ass solved all ills... How are those kids today? What kind of adults are they? Are they good productive members of society, or are they the *******s we deal with every day who we just shake our heads and wonder over? How many continued on to higher education? I remember the real problem kids in my schools, and most of them continued those problems into adulthood... or at least were well on the path last i saw them. I wonder how many of them turned it around and got past their problems? Based on how the rest of the world usually seems to go, I doubt it was very many. ---------- Post added April-7th-2011 at 12:11 PM ---------- On a related note Bang gets a cookie for proper use of "defused" instead of the wtf? choice of "diffused" in the article. Hell yea,, cookies for breakfast! I'm gonna be a sugar charged hellion this morning! ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 i would have punted the little ****tard like a football. His mother should more than likely be sterilized.But then again, i'm not a teacher, so my job wouldn't be on the line. winning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'Em84 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I think the question for those who are reminiscing about th good ol' days when a swift kick in the kid's ass solved all ills...How are those kids today? What kind of adults are they? Are they good productive members of society, or are they the *******s we deal with every day who we just shake our heads and wonder over? ~Bang Well, many of those kids are us, and we live in strict denial of the fact that we horrible people, so that kind of rhetorical questioning won't really work. Edit: He probably got the molding because many teacher's first response is to ignore the kid because he wants attention. Especially if the molding is a little loose, it's really not that hard to pull it off. I think the cops handled it well, although I would've just walked outta the room and picked the kid up by his throat if I was a teacher. It's my pride on the line, I'm not going to hide from a little 8 yr old no matter what weapon he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I think the question for those who are reminiscing about th good ol' days when a swift kick in the kid's ass solved all ills...How are those kids today? What kind of adults are they? Are they good productive members of society, or are they the *******s we deal with every day who we just shake our heads and wonder over? How many continued on to higher education? I remember the real problem kids in my schools, and most of them continued those problems into adulthood... or at least were well on the path last i saw them. I wonder how many of them turned it around and got past their problems? Based on how the rest of the world usually seems to go, I doubt it was very many. ~Bang I understand your point, I grew up in a nightmare that nowadays would have had me in foster care before kindergarten, but how many stayed on that path because there wasn't enough intervention? Because their parents made excuses and covered for 'em when they noticed them at all, or bailed 'em out when sitting in a cell @17 might have made an impression? And how many of them stemmed from broken, dysfunctional homes of single mothers or raging drunks that needed some kind of interest from outside the household? Children need limits, firm and consistent parenting and the knowledge that some **** just ain't gonna fly. Neither the "used to be" or the "what we got" has it figured out, but I think it is fairly well established that just letting the TV or internet raise your kid while you spend your days in vapid tweeting or cruising for online porn ain't workin'. IMO and experience, when the parents are actively involved and interested in the lives of their children, the odds markedly improve for them not to become borderline feral lumps of meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Man, thats like the 10th time Ive seen that statement in this thread. Yes, yes a normal adult or cop probably could subdue an 8yr old without hurting himself or or the child. Key word is COULD. There's no guarantee, things happen quickly -- the kid falls wrong and he could break his wrist, accidentally stab himself, or stab the cop. Lots of variables there, why take a chance? Pepper spray was the least violent option for ending the situation quickly. I dont even see how thats an argument. So, once you douse him with pepper spray while he's holding this deadly weapon, there's not the same chance that he falls wrong and breaks a wrist or accidentally stabs himself? Seems like you have less control over him hurting himself in that scenario. Also, the comments about how strong "these kids" can be are ridiculous. Someone posted that a typical 8-year old stands under 4 feet and weighs less than 60 pounds. It's NOT similar to the anecdote of the high school kid who beat up VT at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 like this? I meant the game itself. It'll teach that evil disk a lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Where'd they survey the punyass kids for that stat? TBH, this made me check for accuracy before saying something approximate. At 7 yrs old my boy is 4'6 1/2 & 90 lbs., quite well-behaved and a sweet disposition but when he acts out, as any 7 yr old will, he can generate a considerable amount force and is 100% unaware of his strength or the consequences. Controlling him without using force can be a delicate matter. Your son is the same height and weight of an average 10 year-old. A seven year-old weighing 70 pounds is in the 97th percentile. http://www.kidsgrowth.com/stages/viewgrowthcharts.cfm?id=BW318 As is a seven year-old 4' 4" tall. http://www.kidsgrowth.com/stages/viewgrowthcharts.cfm?id=BH318 At seven years old, your son is quite literally off the charts. So we have a sketchy news article about a kid that has a history of behavioral issues, being raised on videogames because mommy is busy still being a kid herself, one apparently aware that he was over the line but simply didn't give a ****. Now we add in all the attendant legal liabilities that teachers face in a zero tolerance atmosphere in a special needs class. The police are summoned and face the same range of "WTF are the lawyers going to make out of this?" options. The kid is channeling his inner XBox killer, making threats and has armed himself. The police had been summoned twice before and had been able to 'talk the kid down.' That being the case, I'm not sure the teachers know what they are doing. If the cops can do it a teacher trained to deal with a kid like that should be able to. And I can tell you the first thing our school does when a kid is out of control like that is call the parents. I don't know if this school did that in this case and the mom (or dad? is there a dad?) ignored them or what. But if our school called the cops on my son without contacting me first, he'd be going to a different school the next day, because that would tell me the school has no clue how to handle him. So yeah, they ought to have given him a cookie and let him play Grand Theft Auto in the teacher's lounge Nobody anywhere is suggesting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I know, amazing ain't it? But since I recognize he is a big ole bundle of joy I am very diligent about teaching him to understand what that means, to get some idea of how strong he is and to be aware of his actions. Not easy @ 7. It is an extension of helping him learn what it means to interact with others in all the wild n wonderful ways that society allows, supposedly one of the core elements of parenting that seems to have fallen "out of fashion". Schools do not exist to accommodate any imaginable expression of faulty upbringing. As usual in threads with discussions such as these, people choose up sides and have at it. Some will always see the cops in the wrong no matter what the circumstances, others will always feel the kid is suffering from a boot-in-the-ass deficiency and it's the parents fault, reality is rarely represented on either end of the spectrum. This article doesn't support anything beyond speculation. It is just as possible that it was justified as it is an overreaction. I do agree that a school that didn't rattle my cage first would quickly be in the rearview mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Painkiller:So your saying i have to do better than 456 stitches and staples to put his head back together. Outburst? Hes in a special education class, outbursts happen. You going to pepper spray every child with an outburst that doesn't know better or can't help it in other cases. The lack of patience is more than just the cop. Thought I was clear, but I'll post it again. Painkiller - "Your solution must fit all those criteria to be a "better option" than pepper spraying the kid. I'm all ears The 456 stitches and staples thing was just my admittedly over-the-top attempt to show how the headline could have been written a hundred different ways, and would have generated pretty much the same reaction as the pepper spraying. NO, of course not, you would not pepper spray every 8 year old that has an outburst, but to say that Pepper spraying is "off limits" just because he is 8 is not accepting the reality that not everything is what it seems. Most kids, you could reason with. The fact that the cops had to talk this kid down twice before is a clue that "maybe that isn't working." And of course there is also the notion that the cops don't have 3 hours to wait for the kid to calm down before they can end their call and move on to the next one. Parents are supposed to have patience. Cops are supposed to have patience, but there is a time where you have to take action. Somehow I doubt "talking this kid down" was going to work this time. Should they have called in hostage negotiators for an 8 year old with a stick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Maybe cops should cary Pepper Spray Lite for these instances.. or have mace cans with Hello Kitty on them. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I don't know your politics, so don't take what I'm about to say as directed at you. I've heard a number of conservative radio personalities and others around town with this same attitude, and it strikes me as odd that those who want less government would want to give a state employee ("the government") the power and authority to strike their children. Seems inconsistent, but maybe I'm over thinking it.I am not saying that I want teachers to be permitted to administer corporal punishment. I am saying that the teacher should have a recourse available that renders an 8 year old impotent. Seriously, use you strength and power to disarm and subdue. You can't do that now though, cause kids mom would go ape **** in the media and sue the teacher, the school, the school district, and the county for touching her snowflake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Where'd they survey the punyass kids for that stat? TBH, this made me check for accuracy before saying something approximate. At 7 yrs old my boy is 4'6 1/2 & 90 lbs., quite well-behaved and a sweet disposition but when he acts out, as any 7 yr old will, he can generate a considerable amount force and is 100% unaware of his strength or the consequences. : Damn, you have a HUGE kid. I got the stat off a chart on the internet. I didn't make it up. I don't remember what site I found, but here is a similar chart, and it says the average height of an 8 year old boy is 45 inches (that's 3 foot 9) and the average weight is 57.2 lbs (I found 56 lbs on my other search). I wasn't trying to trick anyone by saying that, just trying to point out the general scale we are talking about here. http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/height-weight-teens.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I think the question for those who are reminiscing about th good ol' days when a swift kick in the kid's ass solved all ills...How are those kids today? What kind of adults are they? Are they good productive members of society, or are they the *******s we deal with every day who we just shake our heads and wonder over? How many continued on to higher education? I remember the real problem kids in my schools, and most of them continued those problems into adulthood... or at least were well on the path last i saw them. I wonder how many of them turned it around and got past their problems? Based on how the rest of the world usually seems to go, I doubt it was very many. I guess what amazes me is the "number" of special needs kids today compared to when I grew up. I'd say 95% of the students in our school were just you average student, not to say that that 95% turned out alright. They may have been screwups into adulthood. They may have had problems at home that wasn't talked about back then. I grew up with an alcoholic father. He and my mother are still married and he was never physically violent, but mentally abusive. He always kept his job and he's a classical "Jekyll and Hyde" kind of guy. If I told my father you were my friend and were stranded with car problems in the middle of the night, he'd come help you. Let him get a few beers in him, and he was an ass. Thank goodness my sister nor I became an alcoholic. Statistics were in our favor for at least one of us to become one. I went on to get a college degree and have done well for myself, while my sister got pregnant early and ended up getting only her GED. Each of us cope with things different. But the sheer numbers of "problem" children just amazes me today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 It was an 8 year old ****ing child! You don't spray pepper spray into their face. You just don't. My 9 year old niece just beat her teacher in her fencing class and I can still take her sword from her. How the **** can anybody justify spraying poison into a childs face for Christs sake? We have been conditioned to put policemen on pedestals. There is a difference between respecting policemen and putting them in a "hero" class. Have some policemen done heroic things? Of course. But I'm not going to tout all of them as heroes who always get the benefit of the doubt. You just don't pepper spray a troubled eight year old kid. If people allow that kind of activity, then it leads to the point where police can get away with anything. Did an 80 year old granny scold a police officer and get her teeth knocked in? She had it coming. Did the cops really have to shoot a barking poodle and chihuahua when they kicked a door down? Well, the dogs were barking. The cops had to do it for their safety. There is nothing more dangerous than a six pound dog. Hell, let's just have a police state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Considering that the cause of Autism is relatively unknown/not agreed upon, I'd say you aren't going to get an answer for that. Yeah I know. Anything with regards to the human mind has not been fully discovered yet. I guess it was more of a rhetorical question out of frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 It was an 8 year old ****ing child! You don't spray pepper spray into their face. You just don't. My 9 year old niece just beat her teacher in her fencing class and I can still take her sword from her. How the **** can anybody justify spraying poison into a childs face for Christs sake? It's not poison. It's actually edible, though I wouldn't recommend it. It's funny to me that the people that are so up in arms about this are those that seem to know the least about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichmondRedskin88 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Coud they have taken the 8 year old with wood in his hand down without pepper spray? Yes. Were officer really necessary for a special ed kid? No. However, the teachers acting like he was a true killer probably made officers take the situation more serious. Still pepper spray isn't that. A friend accidentally nailed me with it once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 http://www.centredaily.com/2011/04/07/2633681/colorado-police-pepper-spray-misbehaving.html# ---------- Post added April-7th-2011 at 12:46 PM ---------- Interesting ABC left out the TV throwing part too. But yeah, no threat there. What injury could possibly come from a flying television? **** the police!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I don't know how big, strong, and mad the kid was. I don't know how big or sharp the piece of wood he was holding was. So, I'll withhold judgment. Is it conceivable that the cops used excessive force? Sure, but I don't think it's certain that they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Damn, you have a HUGE kid.I got the stat off a chart on the internet. I didn't make it up. I don't remember what site I found, but here is a similar chart, and it says the average height of an 8 year old boy is 45 inches (that's 3 foot 9) and the average weight is 57.2 lbs (I found 56 lbs on my other search). I wasn't trying to trick anyone by saying that, just trying to point out the general scale we are talking about here. I know, wasn't implying anything remotely like that, I just get reminded daily that he isn't "the norm", when we go to the playground, when others look at him and wonder why he's acting like a 7 yr old, or when I see stats like that He's just "average" to me. The thing is, there is no norm, that's a statistical construct but in reality children are all over the map and I could see an 8 yr old definitely capable of worrying an adult, especially if armed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 http://www.centredaily.com/2011/04/07/2633681/colorado-police-pepper-spray-misbehaving.html#---------- Post added April-7th-2011 at 12:46 PM ---------- Interesting ABC left out the TV throwing part too. But yeah, no threat there. What injury could possibly come from a flying television? **** the police!!!! Sorry, but policeman are paid $35k annual. They should take a flying TV same as if a secret service agent should take a bullet. I mean, it was only an 8 year old that threw the TV. sheesh. They should have called his mommy. I like this part especially: He had just thrown a TV and chairs and was now trying to use a cart to bust through a door to an office where teachers had taken some young students for safety.They called the police. The officers found him with a foot-long piece of wood trim with a knife-like point in one hand and a cardboard box in the other. "Come get me, f---," he said. Read more: http://www.centredaily.com/2011/04/07/2633681/colorado-police-pepper-spray-misbehaving.html##ixzz1IrCxxWzt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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