abcnews: Aidan Elliot, 8, pepper sprayed by Colorado police

[RM52]

But hey, way to be better than an 8 year old with special needs, RM52. A+!

i strive for excellence!!!

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

Not a bad suggestion. That should really teach a lesson to all the deadly 8 year old wooden stick wielding ****es.

use him as a model - hey kids, you wanna **** with teachers? that little kid in Colorado got the death penalty for doing that...wanna rethink your position now?

60% of the time, itll work every time.

[Conn]

I just can't believe that someone with enough self-awareness to say "I probably deserved it" is as helplessly out-of-(self)-control as some are portraying. He doesn't seem to be autistic. At 8, many kids are put in special education classes for simpler learning disabilities that don't actually effect their behavior like this. Its not definite, but he really could have been an out-of-control little **** who got carried away.

He knew what he was doing was wrong, and a sharp wooden stick in his hand could have been seen as a danger by a less experienced teacher, I suppose. I still think someone could have easily taken the "weapon" from him without much incident, but I don't think pepper spray was the overkill some are making it out to be.

I DO think it should be necessary for every special ed teacher to have some type of martial training, to allow them to non-violently take control of a situation that gets out of hand (I'm talking about legitimate autistic-type cases with VERY strong kids who aren't aware what they're doing is wrong).

[A Walton]

The school was aware of the special needs student and history but still felt the need to call the cops? That plus the fact that teachers were 'barricading' themselves in classrooms out of fear....

Sounds like the cops did their jobs fine. No other teachers or students were injured.

[zoony]

It's different than when we were in school. There are more kids who really have autism. Go sit in a special needs class for ten minutes and tell me they are just badly raised kids faking it. Sure, some kids are misdiagnosed, but that's not the main reason for the increase. It's something else, and it's a growing problem. One that in my opinion is not being given nearly enough attention. Not only do we need to figure out what is causing this spike in cases, but we need to figure out how to make these kids functional members of society. And draconian measures such as pepper-spraying them all or throwing them into an institution (solutions presented in this thread) isn't going to solve anything.

not to sidetrack, but I'm curious what the prevalant theories are out there as to the increase. Is it that people are having children much later in life?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

It's different than when we were in school. There are more kids who really have autism. Go sit in a special needs class for ten minutes and tell me they are just badly raised kids faking it. Sure, some kids are misdiagnosed, but that's not the main reason for the increase. It's something else, and it's a growing problem. One that in my opinion is not being given nearly enough attention. Not only do we need to figure out what is causing this spike in cases, but we need to figure out how to make these kids functional members of society. And draconian measures such as pepper-spraying them all or throwing them into an institution (solutions presented in this thread) isn't going to solve anything.

I agree with this. I'm taking this thread off topic for a second, but my guess is that more things trigger these conditions now than in the past. I think the same number of kids are predisposed to be somewhere on the spectrum as when we were kids, but there is more artificial crap in food, drinks, etc. which is activating what might have been dormant before. I know that sounds silly, but it's really the only thing that is measurably different than 25-30 years ago.

For the record, I also believe more kids are diagnosed (rightly) than in the past. Many kids on the fringe before were probably just labeled as hyper or something when they were in our school.

[zoony]

The school was aware of the special needs student and history but still felt the need to call the cops? That plus the fact that teachers were 'barricading' themselves in classrooms out of fear....

Sounds like the cops did their jobs fine. No other teachers or students were injured.

Yah, I guess if one had to lay blame it would be better to point at the school or the mother, depending on the situation. THe cops did what they're trained to do, and did it well.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

i strive for excellence!!!

That made me ! Well played.

[China]

When I was in elementary school grade in rich, white McLean Va, a kid got so mad that he picked up a desk and threw it at a teacher with Hulk-roid strength. A cuople years later, a kid bit a gym teacher's hand down to the bone (coach was a cruel bully and deserved what he got).

Anyhow, my point is that things are the same as they ever were. Kids are immature and some have issues and act out. We just didn't have the Internet to hear about it every time it happened in Denver Colorado or Lakeland, Florida, or wherever.

Kids are the same, yes. We hear about it more because of the internet and media, yes. But I also think more kids are diagnosed and "labelled" as special needs now than were when we grew up (i.e., the rate of diagnosis and treatment for specific clinical indications/syndromes has gone up). Back then we just called them "slow" or "a little off" or a "spaz" and they weren't given a separate classroom/environment.

[pjfootballer]

When I was in elementary school grade in rich, white McLean Va, a kid got so mad that he picked up a desk and threw it at a teacher with Hulk-roid strength. A cuople years later, a kid bit a gym teacher's hand down to the bone (coach was a cruel bully and deserved what he got).

Anyhow, my point is that things are the same as they ever were. Kids are immature and some have issues and act out. We just didn't have the Internet to hear about it every time it happened in Denver Colorado or Lakeland, Florida, or wherever.

You are right that these things have always happened. I remember a girl had a meltdown in junior high, but she wasn't violent, just depressed and didn't want anyone to go near her. Everytime the teacher or administrator came near her, she screamed like it was bloody murder. Maybe the frequency is more nowadays. And like I said, I cannot remember this many kids being "special needs." When you were in the remedial classes, you just needed a Red Foreman foot up your ass.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

I agree with this. I'm taking this thread off topic for a second, but my guess is that more things trigger these conditions now than in the past. I think the same number of kids are predisposed to be somewhere on the spectrum as when we were kids, but there is more artificial crap in food, drinks, etc. which is activating what might have been dormant before. I know that sounds silly, but it's really the only thing that is measurably different than 25-30 years ago.

drug use? :whoknows:

[Spec138]

not to sidetrack, but I'm curious what the prevalant theories are out there as to the increase. Is it that people are having children much later in life?

That's a good point. I'm sure the older mothers do have an increased chance of some kind of birth defects, not sure about autism though.

[Henry]

I agree with this. I'm taking this thread off topic for a second, but my guess is that more things trigger these conditions now than in the past. I think the same number of kids are predisposed to be somewhere on the spectrum as when we were kids, but there is more artificial crap in food, drinks, etc. which is activating what might have been dormant before. I know that sounds silly, but it's really the only thing that is measurably different than 25-30 years ago.

For the record, I also believe more kids are diagnosed (rightly) than in the past. Many kids on the fringe before were probably just labeled as hyper or something when they were in our school.

I agree with all of this.

I have no idea why the rate has increased. I wish I knew.

[mikered30]

Where is his father to beat his behind? didn't see him in the interview.

[pjfootballer]

It's different than when we were in school. There are more kids who really have autism. Go sit in a special needs class for ten minutes and tell me they are just badly raised kids faking it. Sure, some kids are misdiagnosed, but that's not the main reason for the increase. It's something else, and it's a growing problem. One that in my opinion is not being given nearly enough attention. Not only do we need to figure out what is causing this spike in cases, but we need to figure out how to make these kids functional members of society. And draconian measures such as pepper-spraying them all or throwing them into an institution (solutions presented in this thread) isn't going to solve anything.

And I guess that was part of my question. Why have the cases of Autism and other behavorial diagnosis' increased? What is the cause?

[zoony]

For the other parents in here, would you rather have your son forcibly subdued by a cop, or pepper sprayed? Am I the only one who would much prefer pepper spray?

[DarrellsMyHero28]

And I guess that was part of my question. Why have the cases of Autism and other behavorial diagnosis' increased? What is the cause?

Considering that the cause of Autism is relatively unknown/not agreed upon, I'd say you aren't going to get an answer for that.

[Henry]

not to sidetrack, but I'm curious what the prevalant theories are out there as to the increase. Is it that people are having children much later in life?

I've heard that theory.

My personal experience is not consistent with that though.

[Sniffler]

For the other parents in here, would you rather have your son forcibly subdued by a cop, or pepper sprayed? Am I the only one who would much prefer pepper spray?

Nope... I'd rather them be pepper sprayed. There is too much of a gray area with regards to how to properly subdue a young child, especially if done by less than 4 people.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

For the other parents in here, would you rather have your son forcibly subdued by a cop, or pepper sprayed? Am I the only one who would much prefer pepper spray?

Not a parent, but I still think you can get a piece of wood from a kid without hurting him/hurting yourself.

Though I'd have to see the weapon in question. If the teachers were barricading themselves, he may have had a Braveheart-esque spear that he was wielding.

[Teller]

The kid was in a class for kids with behavioral issues. She's tried medication. It's not like the mom was ignoring him or pretending he was a little angel.

And in the clip I saw on TV, he was playing a video game in which his character was lopping people to bits with a sword. I'm generally not anti-violent games, but in his case, probably not the most brilliant idea.

The point here is not that the kid shouldn't face some consequence for misbehaving. The point is that the school's solution to a behavioral problem in a class for kids with behavioral problems is to call the cops and pepper spray an 8-year-old? What the hell is the point of the class then? Just cut funding for special needs and go ahead spray any kid who misbehaves. According to all the experts on this board that should take care of the little jerks.

If we're to be honest about it, let's ask the question correctly. "Should a kid brandishing a weapon and threatening to 'kill mother ****ers' be pepper sprayed?"

I can say with certainty that the chance of injury from pepper spray is significantly less than the chance of injury from a physical confrontation -- to both parties. This was handled correctly.

[Popeman38]

Dude. He's 8 ****ing years old. You can take him down without pepper spray even if he's holding a piece of wood.

And this is what happens when you take all power away from teachers. Rewind 20 years, that 8 year old gets his ass whipped for threatening a teacher. End of story. Now, the teachers are literally not allowed to touch the kid for fear of being sued or fired.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

And this is what happens when you take all power away from teachers. Rewind 20 years, that 8 year old gets his ass whipped for threatening a teacher. End of story. Now, the teachers are literally not allowed to touch the kid for fear of being sued or fired.

True. There are definitely two sides to that argument, corporal punishment in the classroom is definitely not acceptable but some kids need a good ass kicking.

I know of a case where a guy in Teach for America was working in the DC Public Schools and got fired for breaking up a fight.

[Sniffler]

And this is what happens when you take all power away from teachers. Rewind 20 years, that 8 year old gets his ass whipped for threatening a teacher. End of story. Now, the teachers are literally not allowed to touch the kid for fear of being sued or fired.

No truer words have ever been spoken.

[No Excuses]

There was a journal article published last year that had some interesting things to say about Autism development.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2788022/

Abstract

Recent research has discovered that a number of genetic risk factors for autism are de novo mutations. Advanced parental age at the time of conception is associated with increased risk for both autism and de novo mutations. We investigated the hypothesis that other environmental factors associated with increased risk for autism might also be mutagenic and contribute to autism by causing de novo mutations. A survey of the research literature identified 9 environmental factors for which increased pre-conceptual exposure appears to be associated with increased risk for autism. Five of these factors – mercury, cadmium, nickel, trichloroethylene, and vinyl chloride – are established mutagens. Another four – including residence in regions that are urbanized, located at higher latitudes, or experience high levels of precipitation – are associated with decreased sun exposure and increased risk for vitamin D deficiency. Vitamin D plays important roles in repairing DNA damage and protecting against oxidative stress – a key cause of DNA damage. Factors associated with vitamin D deficiency will thus contribute to higher mutation rates and impaired repair of DNA. We note how de novo mutations may also help explain why the concordance rate for autism is so markedly higher in monozygotic than dizygotic twins. De novo mutations may also explain in part why the prevalence of autism is so remarkably high, given the evidence for a strong role of genetic factors and the low fertility of individuals with autism – and resultant selection pressure against autism susceptibility genes. These several lines of evidence provide support for the hypothesis, and warrant new research approaches – which we suggest – to address limitations in existing studies. The hypothesis has implications for understanding possible etiologic roles of de novo mutations in autism, and it suggests possible approaches to primary prevention of the disorder, such as addressing widespread vitamin D deficiency and exposure to known mutagens.

Interesting read for those who are curious.