abcnews: Aidan Elliot, 8, pepper sprayed by Colorado police

[Koolblue13]

And this is what happens when you take all power away from teachers. Rewind 20 years, that 8 year old gets his ass whipped for threatening a teacher. End of story. Now, the teachers are literally not allowed to touch the kid for fear of being sued or fired.

Exactly. Why call the cops, when a teacher could just pepper spray the children himself.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Exactly. Why call the cops, when a teacher could just pepper spray the children himself.

We should arm teachers with sharp pieces of wood.

[Stadium-Armory]

And this is what happens when you take all power away from teachers. Rewind 20 years, that 8 year old gets his ass whipped for threatening a teacher. End of story. Now, the teachers are literally not allowed to touch the kid for fear of being sued or fired.

I don't know your politics, so don't take what I'm about to say as directed at you. I've heard a number of conservative radio personalities and others around town with this same attitude, and it strikes me as odd that those who want less government would want to give a state employee ("the government") the power and authority to strike their children. Seems inconsistent, but maybe I'm over thinking it.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

I don't know your politics, so don't take what I'm about to say as directed at you. I've heard a number of conservative radio personalities and others around town with this same attitude, and it strikes me as odd that those who want less government would want to give a state employee ("the government") the power and authority to strike their children. Seems inconsistent, but maybe I'm over thinking it.

I don't think that's necessarily related.

**Stereotyping Alert**

Your classical conservative Republican values the good old days. They see the 'kids these days' as being out of line, and liberals as being wimpy when it comes to disciplining children. They think that a few good ass whuppings from an authoritative figure will get these kids in line because that's what their daddy did when they were kids and they have a good, healthy respect for authority.

[Koolblue13]

We should arm teachers with sharp pieces of wood.

Put tazers built into every chair and strap the kids in. That sounds effective and efficient.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Put tazers built into every chair and strap the kids in. That sounds effective and efficient.

Or just put shock collars on them. Too much work to strap them in every time they move classes, just zap them when they get out of control or fall asleep.

[Henry]

And in the clip I saw on TV, he was playing a video game in which his character was lopping people to bits with a sword. I'm generally not anti-violent games, but in his case, probably not the most brilliant idea.

Fair enough. I agree with that.

If we're to be honest about it, let's ask the question correctly. "Should a kid brandishing a weapon and threatening to 'kill mother ****ers' be pepper sprayed?"

And this is the question I've been wrestling with all of you about in this thread.

I wish some of you got to see first-hand the types of meltdowns a typical special needs parent or teacher has to deal with on a regular basis. I don't think everyone would be so cavalier about pepper-spraying 8-year-olds then.

Maybe this particular kid 'deserved it.' But based solely on his behavior in class, I'd say that's not enough information to know. He's in a special class for a reason.

I can say with certainty that the chance of injury from pepper spray is significantly less than the chance of injury from a physical confrontation -- to both parties. This was handled correctly.

Heh. I understand you are speaking from a cop's perspective. Speaking as someone who has plenty of experience facing down an out-of-control child I'd respectfully disagree with you.

[Koolblue13]

Or just put shock collars on them. Too much work to strap them in every time they move classes, just zap them when they get out of control or fall asleep.

side note, I saw completely normal kids on leashes the other day again. That never stops being sad and funny.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

side note, I saw completely normal kids on leashes the other day again. That never stops being sad and funny.

Agreed 100%.

Another reason why I don't want to have kids.

[Teller]

I certainly don't have the experience that you do, Henry. But I did spend a year as a teacher aide in a special needs class. I actually worked with one particular student (who also had a second TA as well) whose greeting to me the day I met him was throwing a chair across the room at me. And when he would become violent, it took both me and the other TA to subdue him until he calmed down. So no, I don't have your experience...not at all...but I can see this from both sides.

Also, I've injured more people inadvertently by physically trying to subdue thm when I worked at the police department than I ever did with pepper spray. No one I ever sprayed suffered any injuries, besides the discomfort of the chemical.

Whatsmore, take a look at this write up on this story. The kid got the piece of wood by ripping trim molding off the wall! I'm not sure I could do that. So the assertions (not yours, mind you) that he was just a loveable little kid with a stick seem pretty ridiculous.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/briefs/articles/90043714?Cops%20pepper%20spray%208-year-old%20having%20a%20temper%20tantrum

[Tweedr01]

LMAO...I completely understand how it looks... the wording in the article paints this picture.

But the reality of the situation is... this kid just demonstrated that he has the ability and want to injure someone. If he is already in a special needs class for specifically this reason, then this is not the first documented evidence that this kid has severe issues. Not to mention... this child could injure a teacher in more ways than just physically. If this situation is handled even slightly off protocol... everyone involved is then considered liable and can lose their career...not job... career!

*** As a male teacher... the thought of barricading myself in a room away from an 8y/o seems ridiculous... but I definitely would have done it too. ...I know... I know... I'm a pansy. But a pansy who will not be sued by a mother with no parenting skills whatsoever.

touche! lol, they don't make it easy to be a teacher these days do they?

[Henry]

HH, did you ever have to have to pepper-spray that kid?

[Tweedr01]

One of my good friends is a special needs instructor at the high school level,, violent kids, uncontrollables, .

He teaches Jiu Jitsu a few nights a week at the community center here, has about as many honors as he can earn in the art. Calmest man I know, even when he's in the midst of completely incapacitating someone.

I know the kinds of kids he deals with. I know how big and how dangerous some of them are. I can't think of anyone better to work with them, especially when they get out of hand.

~Bang

actually my neighbor is the epitome of your friend, he's the one who got me into bjj. cool dude, just don't mess with him!

[Teller]

HH, did you ever have to have to pepper-spray that kid?

No. And fortunately when he had his outbursts, no accidents ever happened. But looking back on it, when he would get violent, there was a very real possibility of one or both of us tripping and falling on him. In retrospect, though we were trained in proper techniques, I don't know that physical restraint was the best policy in that setting.

I certainly don't want to go overboard the other way either. I don't want kids hosed down with OC for saying a cuss word. But when a kid has literally ripped off part of the building and is threatening to kill people, the safest thing to do, IMO, is what was done.

Can you imagine if there was a struggle, and one of the cops fell on this kid and broke his arm? Or a teacher did so? The mom is filing a complaint when her kid wasn't injured at all. She probably would have expected to own half the county if that had happened.

[Conn]

Didn't see an answer to this: Is this kid autistic? Is that why he was in this class?

I ask because at 8 years old, many kids are put in "special needs" classes for simpler learning disabilities that have nothing to do with whether they are in control of themselves, etc. They just can't keep up with the "normal" kids, and there isn't a lot of funding for stuff like this. Which would make this a totally different discussion.

For instance: You have a kid who has a serious enough learning disability, but he's totally in control oh his behavior. He's just not great in school. He grabs a sharp stick and is just out of control, threatening to kill, screaming, etc.

You've got a class full of ACTUAL special needs kids, some of whom are probably autistic. The last thing you want is for all of them to get excited, aggressive, etc. because of this other kid's display of anger and violence. So you take them out of the room and call the police...because you need to watch the kids that really do have more serious problems that can't be left alone while the more "normal" kid flails around a weapon.

I'm not saying this is the case, but I haven't seen anything saying its NOT the case, either. And in such a situation, where afterwords the kid has enough self-awareness to say "I probably deserved it", he would indeed be a little **** with terrible parenting, and a possible behavior disorder. Which, again, would make him not necessarily a little ****.

But its a possibility that this story isn't as ridiculous as some make it out to be, in terms of what the teacher(s) did.

[Teller]

I'm not saying this is the case, but I haven't seen anything saying its NOT the case, either. And in such a situation, where afterwords the kid has enough self-awareness to say "I probably deserved it", he would indeed be a little **** with terrible parenting, and a possible behavior disorder.

And you probably won't find those answers either. As far as I can tell, the reporting on this situation is atrocious. The stories either paint the kid as a poor, innocent little kid, treated unfairly by the police, or they make him sound like Godzilla. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between.

[RM52]

i like how the kid is mature enough at 8 years old to say, hey, i messed up, i deserved it and the mom is throwing a fit...she needs to take a lesson from her son

[mcsluggo]

one: I don't have a problem with police using pepper spray under what I understand the conditions to have been. Have a review board with real external oversight to make sure it was ok (with all the information WE don't have), and I am ok with it.

two: there sure are a lot of douchebag postings in this thread.

[Predicto]

They had no choice. The danger was too great.

[Bang]

Just saw the kid on the news... couple of interesting things

For one, the kid went to his toybox and pulled out a toy to show off, a gun. (It was a ping pong ball gun, but if you know your kid has anger and agression issues, probably not the best toy.)

The cop said the kid had broken the stick he had from the wall, as others have said,, molding,, that's pretty tough to do.

The kid's own words - "I wanted to make something sharp in case they came out of there... I wanted to whack them with it."

~Bang

[Dan T.]

Not a parent, but I still think you can get a piece of wood from a kid without hurting him/hurting yourself.

Though I'd have to see the weapon in question. If the teachers were barricading themselves, he may have had a Braveheart-esque spear that he was wielding.

Whatsmore, take a look at this write up on this story. The kid got the piece of wood by ripping trim molding off the wall! I'm not sure I could do that. So the assertions (not yours, mind you) that he was just a loveable little kid with a stick seem pretty ridiculous.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/briefs/articles/90043714?Cops%20pepper%20spray%208-year-old%20having%20a%20temper%20tantrum

When you rip off a piece of that, the end is a sharp, jagged edge. Like it or not, that is a potentially deadly weapon, even in the hands of an 8 year old kid who is adrenaline-charged with anger.

I assume they tried to talk the kid down at first. But if a cop goes in to subdue the kid and misses the kid's arm on his first grab, he's liable to get stabbed with that jagged piece of wood. Again, I don't care if the person is an 8 year old kid or an adult - if the cop misses securing the flailing arm at the outset, he risks a possibly serious injury. Cops aren't paid to get hurt. They are paid to subdue people who are a danger to themselves, the cop, or others with as little force as is necessary.

[Thiebear]

If it was a special class for kids with behavioral problems, 'the little ****' didn't have it coming. That kid has something going on, and yes, a cop should be able to handle an 8-year-old with a piece of wood without having to pepper-spray him.

I don't expect that most of you have a ton of experience dealing with special needs kids. That's not an unusual meltdown. Teachers in a special ed class should be better prepared to deal with that sort of thing. Calling in the cops? You gotta be kidding me.

My Father and my brother are cops: If they heard this about a special needs class they would have handled the 'Macer'.

Hell, I go on fieldtrips with special needs kids all the time... I am stunned at the patience of others day after day after day after day after day.

This cop had not 1 fraction of it.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Some have already answered this, but I have a question. How many people on this board have ever been physically assaulted by a person who was mentally handicapped?

When I was a junior in high school I was involved with a very pretty Asian girl named Kimmie. The most beautiful face you can imagine and cans like no high school girl you'd ever seen, especially on an asian girl. She was the hottest thing I'd ever seen. Anyways...

One day I was flirting with her down the hallway on her way to class. She spent third period as a TA for one of the special needs gym classes. One of the kids called himself her boyfriend, and he didn't like us talking. All of a sudden, from forty yards away, this kid bull rushes me. In the blink of an eye, four thoughts crossed my mind.

~ I refuse to get beat up by a special kid

~ I refuse to be known as the kid who beat up a special kid for the rest of my high school career

~ Will I go to jail if I beat up a special needs kid in self defense?

~ I'm a second degree black belt, any half decent prosecution attorney will spin this way out of control

Seriously, in the 5-6 seconds it took this kid to cross the 40 yards, those four thoughts ran through my head. I heard Kimmie scream "stop" and then wham! This kid hit me, forearm to the jaw, tackled me to the group, and started pounding me like a ****ing UFC champ. I quickly rolled him over and had him in a submissive hold, and I was able to hold on to him until teachers could help us out. Thankfully, enough people witnessed the event to vouch for me, and it helped that his initial hit dislocated my jaw, because it strengthened my case.

Pepper spray sounds a little excessive, but just because he is special needs or because he is eight doesn't mean he can't do some serious damage. Just because they are trained cops doesn't mean the kid couldn't get a lucky jab into their neck or their eye. Just because they're trained doesn't mean they couldn't trip and break his leg, or accidentally slam his head into the desk or the floor or something.

[Predicto]

The average 8 year old boy is 3 foot 9 and 56 pounds. Cmon now, people. All of these hypotheticals about what could happen are ridiculous. "What if he had a hatchet? What if he was secretly armed with a grenade launcher? What if you tried to grab his arm and he fell out a 14 story window?!??!?!?!"

[Conn]

The average 8 year old boy is 3 foot 9 and 56 pounds. Cmon now, people. All of these hypotheticals about what could happen are ridiculous. "What if he had a hatchet? What if he was secretly armed with a grenade launcher? What if you tried to grab his arm and he fell out a 14 story window?!??!?!?!"

Have you ever personally handled a mentally challenged, in any way, person? Even a kid? They are incredibly strong, and don't know what that means. I don't think he would have caused any harm to the officer, but I DO think its possible that in trying to restrain him, the officer could have hurt the kid, causing this to be an even bigger deal.

Now, we haven't even gotten confirmation that this wasn't just a kid who has trouble reading sitting in his "special needs" class, so none of this might matter at all.