Teller Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I like it too. And hell, why stop there. Why not just take away all the other stupid symbols people rally around. Can you imagine? No more donkeys or elephants, we're all Americans, right? No more St. Paddy's Day crap. No more rainbow flags. No more of any of it. Let's all be Americans, and see how that works out. The theory is a great one, and one I support 100%. The practice simply won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I like it....not sure ya'll will when we subjugate you though.:pfft: Zounds! These Southerners have poor manners, I declare! ~Bing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 This decision was issued in 1869. The Civil War was 1861-1865. Apparently President Buchanan, and President Lincoln, viewed secession as legal. To issue a ruling after conclusion of the war and during reconstruction is a bit revisionist, don't you think? As opposed to claiming that the US Constitution allows secession, that the states regularly seceded from the union before the Civil War, and that Lincoln thought it was legal? Damn, it's terrible the way everybody in this thread but you is altering the past, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Personally, I don't think that most of the people who display that flag today see it that way. I think, for them, it's just a symbol of pride in a way of life, and something to rally around. I mean, when you get right down to it, there's no group out there that's more popular (and politically correct) to bash. Afterall, we all "know" that everyone south of NOVA is a stupid, inbred, tobacco-chewin, wrasslin- and racin-lovin dip****.It's no different than any other group that's been persecuted throughout our history (real or perceived.) They all adopt a slogan, a flag or a symbol. If not the rebel flag, what would you have Southerners choose? Believe it or not, I get that. But my post was an answer to 'I don't see why using that flag to represent southern pride upsets people' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 No, it wasn't. Sure, some people talked about secession, and people still talk about secession today, but your statement is wrong. Secession was never used by any state before the Civil War. Secession was used as a tool of the states when they thought the Fed Govt overstepped her bounds. I did not say that the states seceded. They threatened to secede, which served as a reminder to the Fed Govt that it was restricted. It was threatened many times before the Civil War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Believe it or not, I get that. But my post was an answer to 'I don't see why using that flag to represent southern pride upsets people' Likewise, I get that. Believe it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 As opposed to claiming that the US Constitution allows secession, that the states regularly seceded from the union before the Civil War, and that Lincoln thought it was legal? Damn, it's terrible the way everybody in this thread but you is altering the past, isn't it? Larry, you are the last person in this thread to lecture anyone. You twist more than anyone in the Tailgate. 1) I never stated that states regularly seceded from the Union. I stated they used secession as a toll when they thought the Fed Govt overstepped her bounds. 2) Until the 14th Amendment was passed, you could read the Constitution and take away that there was nothing preventing a state from dissolving the allegiance to the USA. In fact, there are a plethora of references out there that support that, including the couple I posted in this thread. A quick Google search will reveal plenty of reading, by respected authors. 3) Everyone needs to think 1860's, not 2011. We are talking historically, not present. Anyone claiming secession now is whacked out of their minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 3) Everyone needs to think 1860's, not 2011. We are talking historically, not present. Anyone claiming secession now is whacked out of their minds. Well, except that when most view the Confederate flag they are viewing it through a 2011 lens and not an 1860's one. If Southerners are looking at the Confederate Flag through an 1860's lens and that's what they mean by Southern Pride then we do have something to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Fried Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I hate to point this out, but institutional racism in the south continued well past the 19th century. Government-backed racism was rooted in southern culture until a little over 40 years ago. How is that relevant to what the flag symbolizes? At the time, the entire country was racist. But again, if there is some special kind of pride in being a southerner today, why use a flag that was designed specifically for a time when the south fought a war against the rest of the country in order to keep their slaves? I'm not getting into yet another debate on the causes of the war, but the reason is probably because the South doesn't have another flag to use. Are we moving beyond the past or not? What exactly are we proud of? I've already explained. Southern culture is different, and we like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I live in the south, and I'd prefer not to be associated with South Carolina, Texas, and most of Louisiana. Anyone who does hasn't spent much time there (those are just jokes. Really, lovely places. People are great. Love you all) this entire idea of a symbol of the south is just silly. Why not a symbol for the west? Because you know... Utah and Washington have so much in common... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Well, except that when most view the Confederate flag they are viewing it through a 2011 lens and not an 1860's one. If Southerners are looking at the Confederate Flag through an 1860's lens and that's what they mean by Southern Pride then we do have something to worry about.I was referring to the off-topic Civil War era **** I started. Which I will end now to prevent further thread hijack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I just gave away 2 of my favorite T shirts because Skynard puts rebel flags on everything and it just didn't feel right wearing them. I remember having a conversation on here a while back about Jesse James and his "nazi" connection. The rebel flag inspires the same hateful feelings in people and that's not what I'm about anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 The rebel flag inspires the same hateful feelings in people and that's not what I'm about anymore. Nor were they, as "The Ballad of Curtis Loewe" will attest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSilverMaC Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 this entire idea of a symbol of the south is just silly. Why not a symbol for the west? Because you know... Utah and Washington have so much in common... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_RedskinsFan Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I have no use for the rebel flag at all..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Larry, you are the last person in this thread to lecture anyone. You twist more than anyone in the Tailgate. Back it up. I've pointed out three completely fictional claims you've made in this very thread. Find three from me ever. . . . secession was authorized by the Constitution. . . . . . secession was commonly used by states to prevent what they viewed as tyrannical position of the Federal Govt. So obviously, EVERYONE thought secession was an option back then. . . . President Lincoln viewed secession as legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Personally, I don't think that most of the people who display that flag today see it that way. I think, for them, it's just a symbol of pride in a way of life, and something to rally around. I mean, when you get right down to it, there's no group out there that's more popular (and politically correct) to bash. Afterall, we all "know" that everyone south of NOVA is a stupid, inbred, tobacco-chewin, wrasslin- and racin-lovin dip****.It's no different than any other group that's been persecuted throughout our history (real or perceived.) They all adopt a slogan, a flag or a symbol. If not the rebel flag, what would you have Southerners choose? I live in Civil War Country. You ask what else can Southerners use as a sign of their unwavering beliefs during the Civil War? I have two answers that Civil War Southerners currently use. 1. The Springfield Musket. it was teh firearm that the majority of the South used to defend their land and their beliefs. Brothers killed their own brother with this weapon to defend their view of what was right. http://www.uniondb.com/images/musket_014_1.jpg 2. The Southern Military Soldier Cap. Reproductions have a confederate flag screen printed on them, but originals looked something like this. http://www.thehatco.com/media/Novelty_Hats/Confederate_Kepi_MI.jpg notice they utilize the Springfield Musket as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Why can't a symbol of Southern pride have nothing at all to do with the Confederacy? Why bring that horrible can of worms into every discussion, and then be all surprised when people view your symbol in a negative way (as they always do). Why isn't Southern Pride represented by a picture of a Thoroughbred Horse, or a bottle of Jack (good call sacase) or a portrait of William Faulkner, or a beautiful golf course, or a big old Bass, or a plate of BBQ? Why does it have to be this specific flag, the one directly associated with segregation, the one that you KNOW pisses everyone off? The answer, I suspect, is because pissing people off and feeling victimized is an integral part of the deal. :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I live in Civil War Country. You ask what else can Southerners use as a sign of their unwavering beliefs during the Civil War? I have two answers that Civil War Southerners currently use. 1. The Springfield Musket. it was teh firearm that the majority of the South used to defend their land and their beliefs. Brothers killed their own brother with this weapon to defend their view of what was right. http://www.uniondb.com/images/musket_014_1.jpg 2. The Southern Military Soldier Cap. Reproductions have a confederate flag screen printed on them, but originals looked something like this. http://www.thehatco.com/media/Novelty_Hats/Confederate_Kepi_MI.jpg notice they utilize the Springfield Musket as well? I think the question you're trying to answer is "how can southerners say they're proud of starting the Civil War?" I think the question h_h was asking was "how can southerners show pride in being southern without endorsing the Civil War?" (I've tried not to answer h_h's question, because all I can think of are: 1) Sweat Tea 2) And a bunch of redneck jokes. And the first one is really tough to make into a t-shirt or bumper sticker or flag. And I don't think his question really deserves the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I need to get one of those. I was just thinking the same thing. Someone, make this happen NOW! To echo the statements of some of the other posters, there's probably something in his contract that said he couldn't have symbols like that on the bus; but I don't think he should've been sacked over it. I don't like the rebel flag either, but it's not like he was picking kids up in a klan uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I think the question you're trying to answer is "how can southerners say they're proud of starting the Civil War?" I think the question h_h was asking was "how can southerners show pride in being southern without endorsing the Civil War?" (I've tried not to answer h_h's question, because all I can think of are: 1) Sweat Tea 2) And a bunch of redneck jokes. And the first one is really tough to make into a t-shirt or bumper sticker or flag. And I don't think his question really deserves the second. I was just merely stating what Civil War hobbiest's in my area have replaced their Confederate Flags with. I don't know that any Southerner is "proud" of starting the Civil War. I think some are proud that their ancestors stood up for what they believed in at the time(right or wrong), but i don't know of any that are proud of being the spark of the Civil War. I see where you are coming from, something non Civil War related, that can act as an Icon of the South. From my observation of the area I live in, most of the people that still live here, tie the "South" to the Civil War era, just not the flag anymore. The rifle and hat havent been exploited by racist groups the way that the flag has been. Though not tangible, when I think of the South, I think of Courtesy among the people and manners in front of strangers. that's just my opinion though, inferred from observations in the community I live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 10 pages about someone flying a southern flag on their POV. Really? I used to get all mad about it when I saw people with them. I thought getting mad about seeing it was the correct reaction. Now I have learned...who cares? It doesn't affect me in any way. Sports team flag, southern flag, gay pride flag, its all really meaningless. Let the dude fly his flag on his POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Though not tangible, when I think of the South, I think of Courtesy among the people and manners in front of strangers. that's just my opinion though, inferred from observations in the community I live in. JFK once referred to Washington as "A city of Northern charm and Southern efficiency". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 10 pages about someone flying a southern flag on their POV. Really? I used to get all mad about it when I saw people with them. I thought getting mad about seeing it was the correct reaction. Now I have learned...who cares? It doesn't affect me in any way. Sports team flag, southern flag, gay pride flag, its all really meaningless. Let the dude fly his flag on his POV. But that would require people to be open minded and reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Frankly, honoring the participants in the Civil War struggle is in some ways not even the problem. The Battle Flag was not the overriding symbol of the Confederacy - but it WAS the overriding symbol of the opposition to racial integration in the 1950s and 60s. That was a lot more recent and had virtually nothing to do with tariffs or any other genuine states rights grievances. It was just racism, pure and simple. When you display that flag, that is the message you are sending. "I stand with Bull Conner, not with Martin Luther King." It may not be fair, it may not be the message you want to send, but you are sending it anyway. :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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