Multiple Sources: Multiple shot including Congress Woman

[Larry]

We're still talking about the congresswoman that's fighting for her life after getting SHOT IN THE FRIGGIN' HEAD...right?

You should know better.

This is Tailgate. This thread became a thread about "My Political Party is better than yours" along about post #4 in the thread, or so.

[rictus58]

At what point does hypocrisy in political ideology move from being comical to shameful?

[elkabong82]

I found this kind of funny

Ms. Palin quoted former President Ronald Reagan as saying that society should not be blamed for the acts of an individual. She said, “It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.”

Now correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Reagan blaming rap music for the decay of the inner city and rises in crime?

You are correct, and I also wonder why Palin wasn't promoting not holding society responsible for individual actions during the Ground Zero Mosque fiasco. She's a hypocrite and a shill for the party, nothing more. Way to all of a sudden care about society being blamed for individual actions when your side is catching greif, yet being all about blaming society and groups for individual behavior when it suited her party's interests. The sooner she is out of the spotlight the better.

---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 08:51 PM ----------

At what point does hypocrisy in political ideology move from being comical to shameful?

When politicians who represent the extremes of their respective partys, sacrificing integrity and rationality to do so, decide to open their mouths and speak. Case in point Pelosi and Palin.

[Baculus]

Conservatives who have watched liberals blame them for an awful shooting understand exactly what I mean when I say this: that issuing a brutally ugly and false accusation, while wearing a mask of smiles and civility, is not civil. It is ugly and partisan and disgusting — far more so than any inflamed rhetoric, as long as that rhetoric is honest — and free from actual threats of violence. (To illustrate the difference: “We need to target our political opponents!” is not an actual threat. “If I ever meet up with you, I swear to god I’ll ****ing kill you!” is.)

http://patterico.com/

The Right have been blaming the Left for all of society's ills for YEARS. Entire books have been written on this subject, and it is a daily topic on conservative TV and media.

Perhaps you should ask a liberal how it feels to be blamed continually for everything? You're gnashing your teeth over a few days with of supposed persecution, but liberals have had to deal with that for a long time, WHICH IS THE POINT of the Left's criticism over the over-the-top rhetoric from the Right.

That's what you just don't seem to get.

Here is what's been happening:

The Right: "Liberals are destroying America, Liberals are destroying America, Liberals are destroying America, etc." *Rinse and repeat for decades.*

Years later . .

The Left: "Hey, maybe your language has been a bit much, and maybe it can incite violence. Look at what just happened."

The Right: "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARE ATTACKING US! See, liberals ARE trying to destroy America!"

The Left: "Sigh."

Much of the culture and thinking of the American left - the mainstream as well as the fringe - has descended into paranoid suppositions about the conservatives, the Republicans and the former president. This is not to say that the right wing doesn't have a paranoid fringe, too. But by every available measure, it's the left where conspiracy theories have exploded.

Sorry, but I cry foul. I was FULLY into conspiracy theories for years -- talked about it all the time on this forum -- and most of the series were from libertarian/patriot sites that are right-leaning or right-wing, period. One of the PRIMARY conspiracy sites is Alex Jones' site, and if you go to prisonplanet.com, its front page is filled with article after article decrying "the Leftist attacks against the Tea Party and the Right."

The Right have LONG been the hot-spot for conspiracies, starting with the John Birch society and the 60s, in particular. The Left? They believe corporations control the world, and that really isn't much of a conspiracy, is it? And when they accuse the Koch brothers of funding some Tea Parties groups. That ain't no conspiracy, either. That is a matter of public record, as much as Soros funding CAP or other groups such as that. We may debate to how much they contribute, but they do. No big N.W.O. plot there; just more power politics.

Here's the thing: The ENTIRE attack against Obama and the Democrats from the GOP and the Right is ONE BIG conspiracy. What is it? "Obama, the Kenyan Muslim-communist and the Democrats are trying to destroy America." This isn't merely a fringe sentiment: You hear it from primary Republican and conservative movement figures . . . even though there is NO evidence that a George Soros-backed conspiracy is really trying to accomplish this. Are Democrats trying to push policies they support? Of course. But, again, that ain't no conspiracy. Are they trying to take-over America in a socialist plot? Unless you have evidence -- that is a conspiracy. But in spite of this lack of evidence, you hear such sentiments on Fox, on Limbaugh's show, uttered by Gingrich at CPAC -- whatever.

Liberals think conservative policies are bad for America because they focus too much on the wealthy and Big Business and the Iron Triangle military machine, while ignoring the needy, the Middle Class, etc. That sentiment is a far cry from what we hear from the opposite side of the asile.

Of course, there are some on the Right who actually would agree with some of the above statements . . . I know every conservative aren't lock step at all with each other. And there are definitely loons on both sides, but please -- let's try to clear the air on this issue.

So please, explain to us again how it's the Left who are conspiratorial? BTW, I think the Right are going to have a conspiracy hangover from Beck and others when all it said and done.

[Bang]

At what point does hypocrisy in political ideology move from being comical to shameful?

I think when the talking heads on TV finally decide that they can't stomach it anymore, and stop playing the games.

In other words,, never.

One of the themes I've been consitent with in my years in the tailgate,, back when libs were yelling at me, and now that cons are yelling at me,... one of the biggest, if not THE biggest threat we face is the propaganda networks masquerading as news. I think they say the things their politicians want to say, but can't for fear of being labelled extremist or just insane.. well, used to be they couldn't. Now it seems insanity rules, so it really doesn't matter how over the top they go,, they don't have to explain themselves to anyone but their own cheerleaders on their own networks asking their own "tough questions" to themselves.

I firmly believe that half the stuff that happens would be much closer to normal if they didn't take every single thing and blow it up into these giant bags of paranoia and anger.

~Bang

[twa]

The Right have been blaming the Left for all of society's ills for YEARS.

and rightly so.

[Burgold]

and rightly so.

Well, certainly not leftly so.

[Baculus]

and rightly so.

After claiming conspiracy theories come from the "Left," all you can do is provide a one-line reply? No intelligible response to support your statement?

Gotta love that logic, or lack-there-of.

I don't think you have any room to complain about attacks against the Right, that being the case.

[thebluefood]

We're still talking about the congresswoman that's fighting for her life after getting SHOT IN THE FRIGGIN' HEAD...right?

I repeat: A UNITED STATES CONGRESSWOMAN GOT SHOT THE HEAD, SURVIVED, AND IS SLOWLY RECOVERING. How is this not the center of the conversation? No, seriously...what the hell is going on here? What the **** is going on here? What...the ****...is going on here?!

[Baculus]

I repeat: A UNITED STATES CONGRESSWOMAN GOT SHOT THE HEAD, SURVIVED, AND IS SLOWLY RECOVERING. How is this not the center of the conversation? No, seriously...what the hell is going on here? What the **** is going on here? What...the ****...is going on here?!

The discussion was also supposed to focus on whether or not political discourse has contributed to such an event, or past events, or will contribute to future events. It's unfortunate, though, that such a dialog can't place, since some folks want to throw your defensive shields up.

[shk75]

I repeat: A UNITED STATES CONGRESSWOMAN GOT SHOT THE HEAD, SURVIVED, AND IS SLOWLY RECOVERING. How is this not the center of the conversation? No, seriously...what the hell is going on here? What the **** is going on here? What...the ****...is going on here?!

When an event like this happens, which is very rare and serious, I think it is only natural for people to reflect on possible reasons why this occurred and how we could prevent it from occurring again in the future.

[thebluefood]

When an event like this happens, which is very rare and serious, I think it is only natural for people to reflect on possible reasons why this occurred and how we could prevent it from occurring again in the future.

That's fine, but this...pissing contest; this blame game bull**** is disgusting. For God's sakes, people, it's bad enough that we do all this on a daily basis; but can't we put it to one side for just a second or two?

Hey, here's an idea: the kid was a nutcase and decided to shoot a US congresswoman. Even if Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin or whatever sent him over the edge. If he goes and shoots a congresswoman, changes are he was coo-coo for Cocoa Puffs to begin with.

[shk75]

That's fine, but this...pissing contest; this blame game bull**** is disgusting. For God's sakes, people, it's bad enough that we do all this on a daily basis; but can't we put it to one side for just a second or two?

Hey, here's an idea: the kid was a nutcase and decided to shoot a US congresswoman. Even if Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin or whatever sent him over the edge. If he goes and shoots a congresswoman, changes are he was coo-coo for Cocoa Puffs to begin with.

I agree, I do not think the blame should be put on anyone. Ideally this thread would be about the victims the shooter, his profile, and other relevant info. But when you bring that into play people will infuse it with their opinions and then others will react with their own opinion and then voila, a big pissing contest.

[twa]

After claiming conspiracy theories come from the "Left," all you can do is provide a one-line reply?

Are you saying conspiracy theories do not come from the left?

[Baculus]

Are you saying conspiracy theories do not come from the left?

Not at all. There are plenty of people on the Left who will join right-wingers to believe 9-11 theories, or whatever the theory may be. (And many Americans believe in some theories, such as the JFK grassy knoll one, regardless of their political affiliation . . .) But, again, the main purveyors of these theories have been from the Right: Alex Jones, The LaRouchers, etc.

I was responding to what you said, which was, "But by every available measure, it's the left where conspiracy theories have exploded." And that isn't the case. Such theories since Obama has come into office have increased 10x, and most of them revolve around his heritage, his politics, and his intentions as leader. "Obama is a Kenyan commie Muslim trying to impose a dictatorship."

Sound familiar?

You yourself already said that you believe liberals ARE trying to destroy America, without providing a single shred of proof. You're basically saying that many people here on Extremeskins are part of some nefarious scheme to destroy this country. That's the irony about our exchange: You're saying that conspiracies come from the Left while, just a few posts ago, virtually admitted you're a conspiracy theorist yourself.

Did you even realize that? Or is the conspiracy so ingrained into you that it is a matter of fact, regardless of the need to prove such sentiments? Because, if that is the case, there's no difference between you and those people that you are criticizing.

---------- Post added January-13th-2011 at 03:09 AM ----------

Hey, here's an idea: the kid was a nutcase and decided to shoot a US congresswoman. Even if Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin or whatever sent him over the edge. If he goes and shoots a congresswoman, changes are he was coo-coo for Cocoa Puffs to begin with.

I can agree with this statement to a degree, but it doesn't help things at all when some folks insist on ramping up the rhetoric. I mentioned this previously in this thread, but there are ALREADY incidents of violence linked to the heated politic environment.

America is already a violent society -- we don't need the mainstream to become violent as well, where targeting your political opponents with "second amendment solution" threats is part of the everyday discourse.

[twa]

You yourself already said that you believe liberals ARE trying to destroy America, without providing a single shred of proof.

Uh, No I did not

Funny how much you read into things what you want,much like your first post in this thread...perhaps you have not escaped your conspiracy fetish?

[Baculus]

Uh, No I did not

Funny how much you read into things what you want,much like your first post in this thread...perhaps you have not escaped your conspiracy fetish?

When I said, "The Right have been blaming the Left for all of society's ills for YEARS," you said, "And rightly so." This sentiment is entirely piggy-backed onto the "Liberals are trying to destroy America" argument, which is, again, the primary argument from the Right. An argument that you have made zero effort to show you differ in your opinion from it.

So, are you going to tell me that you DON'T think liberals are trying to destroy America . . . but that they are just responsible for everything that's wrong?

You give NO evidence to why liberals are responsible for all the woes in this country. None. All you do is throw out claims without any substantial evidence to back them up, just like some of those conspiracy theorists which you are trying criticize.

That, and you made some claims, which you have made zero effort to further bolster them. Is that because you are unable to do so?

[twa]

Why do you wish to conflate left with liberal now yet are surely aware they are not the same?

I'll leave piggybacking to you,but I will say think the left is trying to destroy America as we know it.

A call from you for substantive evidence is worth a laugh

[Baculus]

Why do you wish to conflate left with liberal now yet are surely aware they are not the same?

I'll leave piggybacking to you,but I will say think the left is trying to destroy America as we know it.

A call from you for substantive evidence is worth a laugh

I am sorry, but come again? Your response is entirely puzzling.

Sorry dude, but I post sources on a frequent basis -- I don't flame and fly. But considering you have yet to show anything substantial to back up your earlier statements, this retort is a bit odd.

[Sticksboi05]

This thread is absolutely ridiculous. 20 people are shot, 6 killed and all that's left is a fruitless argument about politics.

[twa]

This thread is absolutely ridiculous. 20 people are shot, 6 killed and all that's left is a fruitless argument about politics.

Yes it is

[MrSilverMaC]

And you would see an increase in threats,no different than paying ransom.

added

you seriously used the word honest?

Is it that you disagree with my answer or that you don't like my answer? I think if al qaeda made a credible threat and at the last moment offered to call off the attack if you agreed to interview their spokesperson you would find more than a couple of news organizations in the world that would be willing to grant that interview.

My answer doesn't speak to whether that choice is right or wrong, only that I believe that is what would happened given the question posed by Larry.

[Bang]

In regard to the Westboro idiots being able to leverege this threat into airtime, I think it's great, and I hope more communities use this method of keeping them away from their protests.

I believe one of the best things you can do with jackoffs like that is LET them speak. They will not do themselves or their "cause" ANY favors.

I sincerely hope the shows they are on accept phone calls, because then anyone that wants to can unload on them and there's not a damn thing that they can do about it except to listen to it, or walk out like cowards.

Put them on the radio. Broadcast it far and wide, and let the people call up and tell those ****ers what everyone really thinks about them. Let people shout them down, let people treat them like they treat everyone else.

And, the DJ should keep their mics cut while the callers are speaking. Let them answer, but don't let them talk over anyone.

I think it's a beautiful move. And I think it will hit those ****s HARD.

Let them talk. It's the worst thing that they can do for themselves.

~Bang

[twa]

Is it that you disagree with my answer or that you don't like my answer?

I dislike the premise...I do agree it would be accommodated

Using honest punched my buttons, sorry

[Madison Redskin]

And as long as Muslim terrorists use Islam as justification(and Islam endorses jihad) they deserve that finger and more.

So if a nutjob commits murder and says the murder was justified by his twisted view of an ideology, that ideology and those who preach it are partly responsible for the murder? Or, are you saying that Islam is a twisted ideology and undoubtedly condones suicide bombers and terrorists?