twa Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Don't you agree. Isn't there something odd to the layout of events as described. The article may be accurate, but if so there is some wonkiness going on. Some people who dropped the ball in a serious way (the parents perhaps?), (authorities who dismissed a concerned call?) There's a piece of the puzzle that just doesn't fit. Wonkiness describes this kid's latter years and becomes the norm to those that deal with it everyday like his parents. I think you will find a number of people dropped the ball as more details become public,but fumbling is part of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 It's the chasing him in his truck part that gets to me. I can see chasing him out of the house, into the driveway, down the street, but the picture I get feels worse. Maybe it's my dramatic imagination when they talk about him trying to catch him in the truck and driving and driving until he gave up. Still, you're probably right, but a "Hey, look out for my boy... I think he needs to cool out" call seems like it would have happened if things had gone as crazy as it read to me esp. given what we've been told about his background and difficulties. When I was a special ed teacher I dealt with a couple of kids who had emotional disabilities. Often those parents had a much different relationship with authority because they knew that their child could be a danger and they wanted to protect him and sometimes that meant using the authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 So you are comparing a Late lateterm abortionist and a former majority house speaker who represents a segment in her district thats anti god to a guy who wore his faith on his sleeve sometimes too much?Two goods? Dubba Ya increased entitlement spending and basically gave Ted Kennedy a blank check when it came to writing the Education bill at the time the largest ever (including the no child left behind act which he and Kennedy should be credited or blamed for depending on your point of view). I do blame dubba ya for not getting drilling set up in Anwar when he had the chance which with climbing gas prices would have been a big good. So you basically use one's politics to measure their christianity it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 So you basically use one's politics to measure their christianity it seems There isnt such a thing as a "measure of Christianity", You either are or arent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 There isnt such a thing as a "measure of Christianity", You either are or arent How does one tell See it seems to me people pick and choose The current discussion going on in the nation right now would be a good example When people were talking about DADT, abortion gay marriage and setting up religous symbols in public areas America is a Christian nation Then we have the shooting, and the in many cases the same people saying words do not matter and no one can cause another to do this act when the bible has the opposite teaching about how can influence others through word and deed. And one can measure themsleves to see if they are living up to the teachings of Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 DR, that's an excellent bit of perspective. All respect. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 How does one tellSee it seems to me people pick and choose The current discussion going on in the nation right now would be a good example When people were talking about DADT, abortion gay marriage and setting up religous symbols in public areas America is a Christian nation Then we have the shooting, and the in many cases the same people saying words do not matter and no one can cause another to do this act when the bible has the opposite teaching about how can influence others through word and deed. And one can measure themsleves to see if they are living up to the teachings of Jesus I am probably not the "expert" that you need in this, but I am a Christian. My beliefs are that its not acts that make a Christian, though kindess and charitable acts are certainly a way to embody the life of Christ. As a Christian, I believe that anyone who accepts Jesus's sacrifice on our behalf in their hearts is a Christian. None of us is as perfect as Christ and we all would love to attain something close to his example. Identifying as a Christian is the start, the way you live is a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I am probably not the "expert" that you need in this, but I am a Christian. My beliefs are that its not acts that make a Christian, though kindess and charitable acts are certainly a way to embody the life of Christ.As a Christian, I believe that anyone who accepts Jesus's sacrifice on our behalf in their hearts is a Christian. None of us is as perfect as Christ and we all would love to attain something close to his example. Identifying as a Christian is the start, the way you live is a result. Words and deeds play an important part Faith is not something one can see but like James wrote I will show my faith by my works, Jesus talked about how our words are important and he knows us by our deeds. Now faith comes in when we think before we act and speak, how do my actions or words reflect on my faith and does it compare to how Jesus llived or would handle this situation. James's letter mention the tongue many times and is a good read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 When we get into this religious affiliation conversation there always seems to be a distinction made between being a christian and a Christian. Sometimes, it seems that the difference is made for convenience. Anyone who does something bad even if he says he is doing it in the name of Christianity is not a christian, but anyone who does something good even if they don't do it in the name of Christ is a perfect example of christianity. I'm exagerating a bit, but I've heard bible quoting christians who blow up abortion centers in the name of Christ being called non-christian. To me, if you are truly a follower of Jesus, if you believe in him and what he stands for then there it will be reflected in your deeds. Your deeds will be your words. So, I can buy some of the argument above, but sometimes it's a far too easy excuse to rationalize away that ones that do harm instead of looking in the mirror or doing something positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 When we get into this religious affiliation conversation there always seems to be a distinction made between being a christian and a Christian. Sometimes, it seems that the difference is made for convenience. Anyone who does something bad even if he says he is doing it in the name of Christianity is not a christian, but anyone who does something good even if they don't do it in the name of Christ is a perfect example of christianity. I'm exagerating a bit, but I've heard bible quoting christians who blow up abortion centers in the name of Christ being called non-christian.To me, if you are truly a follower of Jesus, if you believe in him and what he stands for then there it will be reflected in your deeds. Your deeds will be your words. So, I can buy some of the argument above, but sometimes it's a far too easy excuse to rationalize away that ones that do harm instead of looking in the mirror or doing something positive. The main point (again, just my opinion) is that one can do awesome good deeds and tons of good works and never be a Christian. One can also be a Christian (albeit a flawed one , as we all are) and not do good deeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 To me, if you are truly a follower of Jesus, if you believe in him and what he stands for then there it will be reflected in your deeds. Your deeds will be your words. So, I can buy some of the argument above, but sometimes it's a far too easy excuse to rationalize away that ones that do harm instead of looking in the mirror or doing something positive. Well it is not so much the bad you do it is how you react to the bad you do And do you go on repeating it once you realize it is wrong For instance over the weekend many people came out and said maybe we should watch what we said since we may be creating a climate where others may act on the words we say. The question becames are we David or Saul When David sinned he took the blame apologized and accepted his punishment When Saul sinned he blamed the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Well, that could go both ways... Is Saul the guy who says... Sure, I'm vitriolic and I'm trying to breed hate, antagonism, and start fires every day with my words, but if something violent occurs I had nothing to do with it. or is Saul the guy who says... This monster went out and killed people let me find out what led him down this path and challenge people to be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Well, that could go both ways...Is Saul the guy who says... Sure, I'm vitriolic and I'm trying to breed hate, antagonism, and start fires every day with my words, but if something violent occurs I had nothing to do with it. or is Saul the guy who says... This monster went out and killed people let me find out what led him down this path and challenge people to be better? Saul refused to accept responsiblity for his actions Before using hateful words one would reflect on how their words reflect on the faith they profess But if they did sin which we all do then taking steps to make it right would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Another article regarding the mental state of the shooter TUCSON — The police were sent to the home where Jared L. Loughner lived with his family on more than one occasion before the attack here on Saturday that left a congresswoman fighting for her life and six others dead, the Pima County Sheriff’s Department said on Tuesday. A spokesman, Jason Ogan, said the details of the calls were being reviewed by legal counsel and would be released as soon as the review was complete. He said he did not know what the calls were about — they could possibly have been minor, even trivial matters — or whether they involved Jared Loughner or another member of the household. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/us/12loughner.html?_r=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Can we all agree that there is no real downside to toning down all the rhetoric? Maybe babysteps here will help moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Well it is not so much the bad you do it is how you react to the bad you doAnd do you go on repeating it once you realize it is wrong For instance over the weekend many people came out and said maybe we should watch what we said since we may be creating a climate where others may act on the words we say. The question becames are we David or Saul When David sinned he took the blame apologized and accepted his punishment When Saul sinned he blamed the people. Yet both were followers of God and chosen by him(though only one is descried as a man after God's own heart) By their fruits you shall know them does not mean all will be oranges...some will be persimmons I agree with your point, I believe being Christian should be left to others to label you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Remember not supporting the troops or better yet undermining them? Oh you must mean when people were upset with the Washington Post and NBC News having a correspondant (William Arkin) calling my Troops mercenaries.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv-s1vfvQTQ The enemy within? Remember, that if we voted for Kerry we would find mushroom clouds in our backyards? Oh the guy so proud of being Vietnam vet that he threw his medals at the whitehouse then conjured up a story about being around fellow soldiers that collected bodyparts? Heck, even the word "liberal" became a cuss word for a time. I never saw it as a four letter word back then but more of a lack of manhood condition. Back then I couldn't figure out how a real man could be a liberal 6 years of blaming Clinton? Don't recall it being that prevalent when compared to the its Bush fault mantra we still see. I do recall that despite 9-11, DC sniper, Anthrax mail, Enron, we managed to recover economically to the point that during those first 6 yrs of Dubba Ya we had 5% unemployment even with the millions and millions of PWPs People Without Papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Yet both were followers of God and chosen by him(though only one is descried as a man after God's own heart)By their fruits you shall know them does not mean all will be oranges...some will be persimmons I agree with your point, I believe being Christian should be left to others to label you Well Saul ended up being rejected by God and had the kingship removed from him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 update on the sheriff etc and releasing public domain info. Sheriff's Department and community-college officials in Pima County are refusing to release a wide range of public documents about the man charged in Saturday's shooting rampage that left six dead and more than a dozen wounded. The Pima County Sheriff's Department and Pima Community College have declined to release documents that could shed light on run-ins they had with 22-year-old Jared Loughner in the months prior to the shooting. The Arizona Public Records Law requires that records be "open to inspection by any person at all times" unless officials can prove releasing the information would violate rights of privacy or confidentiality or otherwise harm the best interests of the state. The Arizona Republic requested that records, including incident reports on campus and calls for dispatch of deputies to Loughner's home, be released under the law. Such reports are often released as a matter of course in criminal cases. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/12/20110112gabrielle-giffords-arizona-shooting-pima-county-wont-release-jared-loughner-records.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Well Saul ended up being rejected by God and had the kingship removed from him And David had his son turn on him....actions have consequences despite remorse added Interesting Aredskin....I know there have been other FOI requests on those Time will tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 The main point (again, just my opinion) is that one can do awesome good deeds and tons of good works and never be a Christian. One can also be a Christian (albeit a flawed one , as we all are) and not do good deeds.That view of being a Christian makes it - to my way of thinking - a completely irrelevant thing to be. Not a bad thing, surely, but not a good thing either. (and don't call me Shirley).Back to the subject at hand - I wonder what was in the black bag, and I wonder how much the dad knew about that bag. This story is going to get stranger and stranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 That view of being a Christian makes it - to my way of thinking - a completely irrelevant thing to be. Not a bad thing, surely, but not a good thing either. (and don't call me Shirley).Back to the subject at hand - I wonder what was in the black bag, and I wonder how much the dad knew about that bag. This story is going to get stranger and stranger. Probably lots of non-Christians feel the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 In the ongoing theme of relatedness Lebanon's government falls as Hezbollah pulls out http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7377988.html Lebanon's national unity government has collapsed after Hezbollah ministers and their allies resigned over a U.N.-backed tribunal investigating the assassination of Former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Probably lots of non-Christians feel the same. Only because they aren't God's gift to the World, like a modest person I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Probably lots of non-Christians feel the same.Perhaps, although I am a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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