Multiple Sources: Multiple shot including Congress Woman

[Predicto]

Could we not say the same about the writings of the Quran or the bible?

Oh for goodness sake.

[thebluefood]

Could we not say the same about the writings of the Quran or the bible?

Annnnnnnnnd that's my cue to leave this thread. It's been real.

[DRSmith]

I read the bible every day but I could and do see people pick out verses to excuse their behaviour or people look at a few verses to judge the whole book

[Baculus]

Probably the same as mine when it comes to the Victory mosque

The "Ground Zero" mosque isn't even a mosque. Period. It will be a community center -- with a pool, for God's sake.

Do you know there is already a mosque just a couple of blocks from Ground Zero? It's been there for years. It was there before 9-11, it was there during this entire decade when no one said a word about it, and has been there during this entire conservative outrage based on manufactured, accusatory charges.

The phrase "victory mosque" is nothing short of distortion of the issue at hand, and it's solely designed to produce anger. It has nothing at all to do with the reality of the situation.

I don't recall that, but lets not pretend that a lot of Rap and a lot of Hip hop glorifying violence and bad treatment of women has not had negative influences on the young and the stupid in the hood and the burbs.

It has been a bad influence on some people. But so is running around and talking about "victory mosques" and attacking American Muslims who had nothing at all to do with 9-11.

---------- Post added January-13th-2011 at 07:23 PM ----------

Guess what, there are a billion plus Muslims on Earth. So regardless, the percentage who are terrorists, even if tens of thousands, is an extremely small percentage.

According to Beck, he said that that 10% of Muslims are terrorists, which would mean over a hundred million terrorists. (Actually, that would mean $157 million, but current count.) I mean, there is no way Beck would just throw out any old number just for no reason, eh? No way at all, because Beck is so honestand upstanding in his efforts -- am I right? Who has my back on this?

Conservatives don't want to be unfairly lumped into one group, but that is exactly what they want to do to Muslims.

[Predicto]

According to Beck, he said that that 10% of Muslims are terrorists, which would mean over a hundred million terrorists. (Actually, that would mean $157 million, but current count.) I mean, there is no way Beck would just throw out any old number just for no reason, eh? No way at all, because Beck is so honestand upstanding in his efforts -- am I right? Who has my back on this?

.

Was that before or after he said that there were 2 million people at the Tea Party rally, the one that actually had somewhere between 75 and 100k in attendance?

Beck isn't an accountant - it's unfair to require him to be precise with figures.

[Baculus]

Really? Wow. to think all of those years I was in those countries doing things from providing Aid to peace keeping I didn't know that. Mrs ND would really be upset with me since she is part Turkish. No one is saying all muslims are terrorists and using that tactic does not silence anyone especially me.

Plenty of people from the Right have said all Muslims are terrorists (or at least a good chunk of them), since the religion is an "evil" religion. As I just pointed out, Glenn Beck said that 10% of Muslims are terrorists, when that is a wholly invented figure. And if you claim to be unbiased, then why are you calling the downtown Muslim community center (which hasn't even been built) a mosque when it isn't?

Maybe you need to quit listening to right-wing hysteria, because it is really unseemly for a person such as yourself. BTW, is your wife a Christian or a Muslim? Because ethnicity isn't really the issue, except for those people that don't realize that Islam is not an ethnic race.

As far as the figures you posted below, there is a whole set of reasons to why Muslims have their opinion on certain attitudes on various issues.

I am always curious, though, to why liberal-despising people complain about the Islamic world, when it is a conservative culture. Only all things conservative are good, so why is that a problem to the American Right? I mean, can you imagine this conservative culture supporting women's rights, freedom of speech, democracy, and all of those yucky liberal values?

---------- Post added January-13th-2011 at 07:43 PM ----------

Was that before or after he said that there were 2 million people at the Tea Party rally, the one that actually had somewhere between 75 and 100k in attendance?

Beck isn't an accountant - it's unfair to require him to be precise with figures.

I know -- it is ridiculous of me to assume that Beck would use ration and reason for his argument! Just like it would be crazy for me to expect Beck, who wrote his own Common Sense book to actually have read Paine's actual Common sense or Paine's Age of Reason booklets. Or, for that matter, to understand what the Constitution's 3/5 clause really meant (after he has been defending it as an attempt by the Founding Fathers to abolish slavery).

Foolish, foolish me.

---------- Post added January-13th-2011 at 07:45 PM ----------

Yes it is

Especially when certain people make silly statements (most conspiracy theories are coming from the Left!) without even trying to back them up or argue their point.

Maybe certain things are better left (pun intended) unsaid.

---------- Post added January-13th-2011 at 07:46 PM ----------

Yes it is

Especially when certain people make silly statements without even trying to back them up or argue their point.

Maybe certain things are better left (pun intended) unsaid, which is the entire point of the debate.

[twa]

Could we not say the same about the writings of the Quran or the bible?

You could,,however most reasonable people judge the word and deed of those that preach and read them(as you have already asserted)

Now will you answer who is advocating violence?

[Predicto]

You could,,however most reasonable people judge the word and deed of those that preach and read them(as you have already asserted)

Now will you answer who is advocating violence?

In this country, or in other countries?

[DRSmith]

You could,,however most reasonable people judge the word and deed of those that preach and read them(as you have already asserted)

Now will you answer who is advocating violence?

For the last two years I have heard on regular basis on many right wing forms about the need to scede, it is it time for another civil war, 2nd ammendment solution the government's plan for re education and to seize guns and the nned to defend oneself, how Hitler had gun control.

I watched people who seemed normal now going nutty

[Stadium-Armory]

For the last two years I have heard on regular basis on many right wing forms about the need to scede, it is it time for another civil war, 2nd ammendment solution the government's plan for re education and to seize guns and the nned to defend oneself, how Hitler had gun control.

I watched people who seemed normal now going nutty

Like this guy.

35 years later, still relevant.

[twa]

For the last two years I have heard on regular basis on many right wing forms about the need to scede, it is it time for another civil war, 2nd ammendment solution the government's plan for re education and to seize guns and the nned to defend oneself, how Hitler had gun control.

I watched people who seemed normal now going nutty

I've heard that sort of thing my whole life...evading the question?

[Baculus]

I've heard that sort of thing my whole life...evading the question?

Oh, the irony.

[twa]

Oh, the irony.

Go back to the post above mine you are obsessed over...find the inverted paragraph

see if you can figure out why I'm ignoring you.

[Baculus]

Go back to the post above mine you are obsessed over...find the inverted paragraph

see if you can figure out why I'm ignoring you.

You're not ignoring me -- you just never provided anything to back-up your assertions. You were "evading the question," to use the phrase you used a post ago.

I originally challenged your assertions to where most conspiracy theories originate -- remember? :-)

En garde!

[DRSmith]

I've heard that sort of thing my whole life...evading the question?

No one is evading a question

[Mickalino]

I'm just curious - whatever happened to the HIPPA laws in a case like this ?

Medical information is supposed to be kept private unless the patient authorizes medical information to be released.

Yet in this case, the patient is not conscious to be able to sign such authorization, yet their doctors are getting on TV every morning to give medical information on the patient to the entire world ?

[Predicto]

I'm just curious - whatever happened to the HIPPA laws in a case like this ?

Medical information is supposed to be kept private unless the patient authorizes medical information to be released.

Yet in this case, the patient is not conscious to be able to sign such authorization, yet their doctors are getting on TV every morning to give medical information on the patient to the entire world ?

I'm not sure that this is the sort of information that is encompassed by HIPAA (don't have any idea, actually), but she has a husband. When you are incapacated, your spouse may speak for you and may authorize the release of records or information.

[NavyDave]

so let me get this straight mosques and Islam can be blamed for influencing others to do acts that are disagreeable but violent speak and image in connection with political rhetoric can have no inflluence?

Are you trying to compare the perversion of the teachings of Islam in some Mosques by radicals who brainwash their young, impressionable followers, http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/9/german-mosque-shut-as-jihad-meeting-place/

http://www.investigativeproject.org/1524/northern-va-mosque-of-alleged-fort-hood-shooter

with political speech that doesn't appeal to those who side with the liberal / progressive agenda?

So is ALF and other Eco Terrorists the result of watching Captain Planet and is Capt Planet (Ted Turner to blame?)

I really can't remember conservatives on the floor of congress saying certain politicians want old people to die quickly, or that a political party is coming for your children, or a group is taking money out of the pockets of the poor to give to someone well off. I can't remember conservatives saying my troops are terrorizing people in the dead of night.

I can't remember conservatives finding my troops guilty before the facts came out, and when they did and the troops were innocent, remain surprisingly quiet instead of saying atleast oops my bad (though their words could have been a recruitment tool for more Jihadists.

I can remember liberals saying it though.

Oh and trying to portray me as saying all Mosques are bad and full of Jihadists isn't going to work.

[JimboDaMan]

I'm just curious - whatever happened to the HIPPA laws in a case like this ?

Medical information is supposed to be kept private unless the patient authorizes medical information to be released.

Yet in this case, the patient is not conscious to be able to sign such authorization, yet their doctors are getting on TV every morning to give medical information on the patient to the entire world ?

I had the same thought watching the docs. But I suspect Predicto is right about the husband giving permission for the doctors to speak.

Either that, or the nefarious hand of Obama is involved.

---------- Post added January-14th-2011 at 03:24 PM ----------

Oh and trying to portray me as saying all Mosques are bad and full of Jihadists isn't going to work.

Because that would be wildly out of character, right?

As opposed to that "Victory Mosque" in New York which apparently IS bad and full of Jihadists.

[NavyDave]

http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2011/jan/14/new-imam-named-lower-manhattan-islamic-center/

The plan for the Islamic cultural center would entail a 15- to 16-story building with two separate sections: one with a mosque, the other with a swimming pool, wellness center, culinary school, restaurant and a 500-seat auditorium. Park51 is hoping to raise $100 million for the project, which will occupy the old Burlington Coat Factory building several blocks from the World Trade Center.

There are reports that the new Ground Zero Mosque Imam Abdullah Adham is Linked to Unindicted Co-conspirator in '93 WTC bombing but its best to wait for confirmation on that instead of rushing to judgment.

---------- Post added January-14th-2011 at 04:08 PM ----------

[/color]Because that would be wildly out of character, right?

As opposed to that "Victory Mosque" in New York which apparently IS bad and full of Jihadists.

Never said it would be full of them. Yet those on the left forcing themselves to be naive and pretend to not know how it will be viewed in the radical world is not really surprising.

The HISTORY OF ISLAM may hold answers to WHY it is so important for Muslims to build that GROUND ZERO MOSQUE…

In 630, Muhammad led 10,000 Muslim soldiers into Mecca and turned the pagans’ most prominent spot, the Ka’aba, into the Masjid al-Haram Mosque.

In 634, Rightly Guided Caliph Umar conquered Syria and turned the Christians’ most prominent spot, the Church of Job, famous for being visited by Saint Silva in the fourth century, into the Mosque of Job.

In 637, Caliph Umar conquered Hebron and turned the second-most prominent spot in Judaism, the Cave of the Patriarchs, into the Ibrahim Mosque. (This was repeated by Saladin in 1188.)

In 638, Muslim generals Amr ibn al-As and Khalid ibn al-Walid conquered Gaza and turned the prominent fifth-century Byzantine church into the Great Mosque of Gaza.

In 638, Caliph Umar conquered Jerusalem.

In 691, Caliph Al-Malik ordered the _Dome of the Rock_ built on the most prominent spot in Judaism, the Temple Mount, followed by Caliph Al-Walid building the Al-Aqsa Mosque there in 705.

In 651, Muslims conquered Persia and turned Zoroastrian temples in Bukhara and Istakhr into mosques.

In 706, after Muslims took Damascus from the Byzantine Empire, Caliph Al-Walid turned the prominent Orthodox Church of St. John the Baptist into the Umayyad Mosque.

In 710, Gen. Muhammad bin Qasim conquered Pakistan, defiled the prominent Sun Temple in Multan, which house the great idol “sanam,” and erected a mosque.

In 784, after the conquest of Spain, Emir Abd ar-Rahman turned the prominent Visigothic Christian Church of Saint Vincent into the Great Aljama Mosque of Cordoba.

After the conquest of Egypt, Caliphs al-Mamun (813-833) and al-Hakim (996-1021) turned prominent Coptic Christian churches and Jewish synagogues in Cairo into mosques.

In 831, Muslims conquered Palermo, Sicily, and Asad ibn al-Furat turned the prominent Church of Saint Mary of the Assumption into the Great Mosque of Bal ‘harm.

In 1193, Muslims conquered Delhi, India, and Qutbuddin Aibak turned the Red Citadel in Dhillika, the most prominent spot of the last Hindu rulers, into the Qutb Minar Mosque.

From 1250-1517, Mamluk Muslims controlled the Golan Heights and used the ancient Synagogue of Katzrin as a mosque.

In 1387, Turkish Muslims conquered Thessaloniki and turned the Katholikon Monastery and the Church of Aghia Sophia, which housed the relics of Saint Gregorios Palamas, into mosques, as Symeon of Thessaloniki recorded:

“The greatest number of the buildings of the churches fell to them, of which _the first_ was the Holy Church of the Savior. … These were trampled underfoot and the infidels rejoiced in them. … Most of the religious buildings in the city were despoiled, while altars were demolished and sacred things profaned.”

On May 29, 1453, Sultan Mehmet II conquered Constantinople and turned the great Byzantine church, Hagia Sophia, into the Ayasofya Mosque.

The _largest_ church in Christendom for a thousand years, the church’s four acres of gold mosaics was covered with whitewash and Quran verses.

In 1458, Sultan Mehmet II conquered Athens and turned the Greeks’ most prominent spot, the Parthenon on Acropolis hill, into a mosque. When Venetian Gen.

Francesco Morosini drove the Muslims out in 1687, a cannonball hit the gunpowder stored in the mosque, blowing it up. In the 15th century, Ottoman invaders turned Saint Clement’s Macedonian Orthodox Monastery in Plaosnik, Balkans, into the Imater Mosque.

From 1519-1858, Muslim Mughal rulers gained control of India and turned over 2,000 Hindu temples into mosques, including demolishing the Temple of Ram Janmabhoomi in Ajodhya, the birthplace of Rama, and replacing it with the Babri Mosque.

India’s Mughal Muslim ruler, Jahangir (1605-1627), wrote in Tujuk-i-Jahangiri: “At the city of Banaras [was] a temple. … I made it my plea for throwing down thee temple … and on the spot, with the very same materials, I erected the great mosque.”

In 1543, Hayreddin Barbarossa’s 30,000 Muslim troops wintered in Toulon, France, and turned the prominent Toulon Cathedral into a mosque.

In 1570, under Sultan Selim II Khan, Muslims conquered Paphos, Cyprus, and Gov. Mehmet Bey Ebubkir turned the prominent Christian church into the Great Mosque of Paphos.

In 1571, Muslims invaded Famagusta, Cyprus, and turned Saint Nicolas Cathedral, a rare Gothic church, into the Lala Mustafa Pasha Mosque, and Saint Sophia Cathedral in Nicosia, constructed in 1228, into the Selimiye Mosque.

In 1588, Sultan Murat III turned the Eastern Orthodox Church of Saint John the Forerunner in Constantinople into the Hirami Ahmet Pasha Mosque.

In 1781, after having conquered the Old City of Acre, Ottoman Muslims turned the Roman Catholic Church built by Crusaders into the Jezzar Ahmet Pasha Mosque, where a hair from Muhammad’s beard is preserved.

In 1923, Muslims expelled Greeks from Turkey and turned Orthodox churches into mosques. In World War II, Nazis allied with Bosnians and turned the prominent Artists’ Gallery Museum in Zagreb, Croatia, into a mosque.

In the 1950s, Muslims expelled Jews from Arab lands and turned synagogues into mosques. Algerian Muslims warred against French colonial rule till France pulled out in 1962, after which the Cathedral of St. Philippe was turned into the Ketchaoua Mosque.

Violence against Jews caused 30,000 to flee and the Great Synagogue of Oran was turned into the Mosque Abdullah Ben Salem.

In 1974, Turkish Muslims invaded northern Cyprus, and prominent Greek Orthodox churches were turned into mosques.

In 1981, Muslim immigrants to the Netherlands converted Amsterdam’s historic Catholic Sint-Ignatiuskerk into the Fatih Mosque, and a synagogue in The Hague into the Aksa Mosque.

It is so interesting that liberals / progressives and some atheists seem be so rabid in their defense of Islam but silent or complicit when it comes to the bashing of Christianity

[aREDSKIN]

I'm just curious - whatever happened to the HIPPA laws in a case like this ?

Medical information is supposed to be kept private unless the patient authorizes medical information to be released.

Yet in this case, the patient is not conscious to be able to sign such authorization, yet their doctors are getting on TV every morning to give medical information on the patient to the entire world ?

I do believe that I read 3 or so UMC employees were fire for accessing and or releasing such info. I'm unsure if was about the congresswomen or the other victims.

---------- Post added January-14th-2011 at 09:23 PM ----------

I had the same thought watching the docs. But I suspect Predicto is right about the husband giving permission for the doctors to speak.

Either that, or the nefarious hand of Obama is involved.

---------- Post added January-14th-2011 at 03:24 PM ----------

.

Or his staffers

[Stadium-Armory]

..... edited out a bunch of stuff about Mosque building....

NavyDave, if you haven't seen any of his videos, you should check out Pat Condell. He shares your opinion on this topic, and his delivery is pretty funny. I find my self disagreeing with some of his stuff, but I think you'll like it:

..now, back to the topic at hand..

[DRSmith]

Are you trying to compare the perversion of the teachings of Islam in some Mosques by radicals who brainwash their young, impressionable followers, http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/9/german-mosque-shut-as-jihad-meeting-place/

http://www.investigativeproject.org/1524/northern-va-mosque-of-alleged-fort-hood-shooter

with political speech that doesn't appeal to those who side with the liberal / progressive agenda?

So is ALF and other Eco Terrorists the result of watching Captain Planet and is Capt Planet (Ted Turner to blame?)

I really can't remember conservatives on the floor of congress saying certain politicians want old people to die quickly, or that a political party is coming for your children, or a group is taking money out of the pockets of the poor to give to someone well off. I can't remember conservatives saying my troops are terrorizing people in the dead of night.

I can't remember conservatives finding my troops guilty before the facts came out, and when they did and the troops were innocent, remain surprisingly quiet instead of saying atleast oops my bad (though their words could have been a recruitment tool for more Jihadists.

I can remember liberals saying it though.

Oh and trying to portray me as saying all Mosques are bad and full of Jihadists isn't going to work.

No I am comparing the twisting of scripture for Muslims with the twisting of scripture by Christians. I see parents on right wing forms rejoice when their children start reciting the talking points that have been driven into them and I see it go down with left wing idealogy also when such things as taking care of the poor get taken too far.

To say that the talk about the resditribution of wealth has not been used again Obama for the last two years is dishonest.

When it comes to violence I place no one side better than the other, a man will reap what he sows.

Violence breeds violence on both sides.

As for what Muslims do I do not care

What people do and call Christian I will speak up because that is my faith.

Do not bother trying to play the politics game with me because all I care about is if something is right or wrong from the bible's point of view. I do not like either side twisting scripture to defend something they want.

I will point out if something does not contradict or does contradict what the scriptures teach.

[DjTj]

Ex-girlfriend: Loughner 'not mentally ill'

Figueroa says the last time she saw Loughner was three or four months ago. She says she does not think he is mentally ill.

"I think he's faking everything. I think the outburst that he had in class -- I think he's planned everything. I think that he has been planning this for some time," said Figueroa.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/national_world&id=7895767

[DRSmith]

I've heard that sort of thing my whole life...evading the question?

I did not see threats to scede under Bush

Or law suits against the Feds

I saw disrespect of the government by extremists

---------- Post added January-14th-2011 at 05:09 PM ----------

Ex-girlfriend: Loughner 'not mentally ill' http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/national_world&id=7895767

A mentally ill person who knows to use the 5th

The trial should be interesting espicially since give the contents of his pockets he had a plan to flee