Multiple Sources: Multiple shot including Congress Woman

[thebluefood]

Any of you guys watch the segment on 60 Minutes about Jared Loughner?

[Baculus]

Obviously it is the military's fault per Schumer

Nowhere does Schumer say it's the military's fault: he said the army-civilian law enforcement loophole needs to be closed, and it probably does.

Facts have a well-known liberal bias. . . .

[twa]

nope, anything new and interesting?

---------- Post added January-16th-2011 at 07:31 PM ----------

Nowhere does Schumer say it's the military's fault: he said the army-civilian law enforcement loophole needs to be closed, and it probably does.

.

You are correct for a change, but it did make my lead in more appealing

[Baculus]

Any of you guys watch the segment on 60 Minutes about Jared Loughner?

I don't have TV, but I assume I can watch it on their website. Any new revelations?

[Dan T.]

I don't have TV, but I assume I can watch it on their website. Any new revelations?

None really. They interviewed two Secret Service guys - Bryan Vossekuil; Robert A. Fein - who studied people who assassinated or attempted to assassinate public figures, including Arthur Bremer, who shot George Wallace, and Mark David Chapman - who killed John Lennon - and they talked about how Jared Loughner's actions parallel many of those they interviewed. Here's a link to a summary of the report they did, with links to the actual report - (I helped with the editing of this report when I worked at the National Institute of Justice):

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/170612.htm

They interviewed two of his friends who gave some insight into his deteriorating state of mind. They showed clips of the video Loughner filmed of Pima Community College with his own disjointed narration, which he posted on You Tube and which was the last straw for the college, which sent 4 campus officers to his house to tell him he could not return to school until he sought mental health help.

[Baculus]

None really. They interviewed two Secret Service guys - Bryan Vossekuil; Robert A. Fein - who studied people who assassinated or attempted to assassinate public figures, including Arthur Bremer, who shot George Wallace, and Mark David Chapman - who killed John Lennon - and they talked about how Jared Loughner's actions parallel many of those they interviewed. Here's a link to a summary of the report they did, with links to the actual report - (I helped with the editing of this report when I worked at the National Institute of Justice):

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/170612.htm

They interviewed two of his friends who gave some insight into his deteriorating state of mind. They showed clips of the video Loughner filmed of Pima Community College with his own disjointed narration, which he posted on You Tube and which was the last straw for the college, which sent 4 campus officers to his house to tell him he could not return to school until he sought mental health help.

Interesting article (especially since you worked on it); thanks for the link.

I found this sentence from your report to be most troublesome, especially in relation to what you just said: "Much has been written about profiles of assassins, but in reality there are no accurate descriptive or demographic profiles of American assassins, attackers, and near-lethal approachers." It seems to be true: attacks always seem to come out of the blue, and we're always left with a footage of their neighbors or friends trying to make sense of what happened.

[brandymac27]

Any more updates on Giffords? I know she was doing well and am hoping she continues to improve.

[twa]

Any more updates on Giffords? I know she was doing well and am hoping she continues to improve.

well as can be expected, they removed the breathing tube and did a tracheotomy

perhaps she can speak now

[brandymac27]

well as can be expected, they removed the breathing tube and did a tracheotomy

perhaps she can speak now

Sounds like she's still making good progress. That's good to hear.

[Baculus]

Sounds like she's still making good progress. That's good to hear.

Yeah, considering what happened she seems to be coming along. I just hope she isn't drastically changed as a person from the head trauma.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

What I got out of the 60 Minutes piece was that he was real big into philosophy, wasn't smart enough to fully grasp it, and his mental illness added to that took him where it did.

[NavyDave]

A few points:

(1) Do you realize that the Park51 Islamic community center is being funded by one of the owners of Fox Corp.: Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal? Why aren't you calling for the boycott of Fox News?

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201008200055

(2) From the article you quoted, they mentioned that the "Islamic cultural center" has a"swimming pool, wellness center, culinary school, [and a] restaurant." Does that sound like some radical Al-Qaida mosque to you? You continue to use the term "Ground Zero Mosque," a nickname probably created Pam Geller or some other conservative agitator, but it's obvious that this is not simply a "mosque." And yet the Right continue to use that emotionally loaded term. Why is that? Why can't the right-wing debate this for what it is: A community center? Is there any level of rational debate possible on this issue, or does everything have to be at-full-volume controversy?

BTW, if the imam at the Islamic center has ties to terrorists, then Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, major owner of News Corp., has ties to terrorists, and that means Fox News has ties to terrorists. If that is true, then why do you watch terrorist connection news TV?

No wonder Fox hates the American president so much -- they are anti-American terrorists owned by a foreign corporation. Now it makes all the sense in the world . . .

(3) I pointed this out previously, but you refuse to bring it into the reality of your position: There is already a mosque in downtown Manhattan less than a mile from Ground Zero. Here is their website:

http://www.masjidmanhattan.com/

Their site says that "Masjid Manhattan, established in 1970, is a not-for-profit organization currently located in the heart of downtown Manhattan, near City Hall and the World Trade Center."

Where is the response about this mosque?

With all this in mind, it is obvious that the response to the Park51 community center is purely political in nature and a cynical exploitation of the 9-11 legacy. While conservatives accuse liberals of trying to exploit the Giffords' shooting for political reasons, conservatives have been doing this with 9-11 since the day of the attack, and the reaction to the Park51 center is a continuation of this. How do we know this? From the above pieces of information: that the center is partially funded by Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, the no. 2 shareholder of News Corp., whuch owns and operates Fox News.; that the Islamic center is not considered to simply be a mosque, which is why it is called a "community center," open to both Muslim and non-Muslim alike; and that there is already a mosque in the area which has been there for decades.

None of the conservatives attacks against this center add up, which is why they don't have anything beyond "OMG they are building a victory mosque at Ground Zero!"

When Glenn Beck is bashing the social justice elements of Catholics or Unitarians, or when he is telling his audience to leave churches which believe in social justice, where are you or other conservatives in defending these Christians? A lot of progressives and liberals are Christians, but don't let that stop you from bashing them as well. I guess it is OK to drop all pretext of civility as long as it's someone whose political views that you oppose -- correct?

Finding reason to cast stones at progressives, liberals, Pres. Obama and Democrats (or which millions of them identify as being Christian) is surely not a sign of a good Christian brother or sister, if you ask me. So if you want Christianity to be defended, then what parts of Christianity do you want to defend? Because if Jesus Christ was supposed to represent love, I surely don't see it from the right-wing orthodoxy.

So when evidence comes in to dispel the "THERE IS NO MOSQUE!!!" screaming from the sympatizers, the next move is for those who disagree with the location of the proposed Mosque is to now be onboard because the corporate side of Fox News allegedly supports it. Wow I guess we should be lock step with them because we are a monolithic, bunch of lemmings who will support anything with GOP associated with it as the left does with Dems. Uhhh No I don't.

On the Social justice in church topic, when a church's teachings are altered where christians in that church are supposed to now go with a collective salvation instead of individual, it should be pointed out.Now you see churches who embrace "Social justice" in Maryland (Ft Washington, Prince Georges county) trying to convince its flock that illegal aliens are US Citizens or that they should do what they can to provide for them. Why would I defend the dumbing down of Christianity?

Definition of social justice (Hijacked progressive version): Forced redistribution of wealth with a hostility toward individual property rights, under the guise of charity and/or justice.

[Burgold]

On the Social justice in church topic, when a church's teachings are altered where christians in that church are supposed to now go with a collective salvation instead of individual, it should be pointed out.Now you see churches who embrace "Social justice" in Maryland (Ft Washington, Prince Georges county) trying to convince its flock that illegal aliens are US Citizens or that they should do what they can to provide for them. Why would I defend the dumbing down of Christianity?

Maybe they're not trying to convince you that illegal aliens are U.S. Citizens, but God's children and thus deserving of compassion and succor. That fits in with my definition of what a Church should do.

[ACW]

Obviously it is the military's fault per Schumer

Well shoot, that's no dumber than blaming pot. When I think of pot-users, I DO NOT think of psychotic mass murderers.

[NavyDave]

Maybe they're not trying to convince you that illegal aliens are U.S. Citizens, but God's children and thus deserving of compassion and succor. That fits in with my definition of what a Church should do.

Then they should write that on their signs instead of what I posted. And of course we should show them compassion but they are still here illegally so ignoring or obstruction of the law is wrong. And I'm not talking about the hablas or people from the Motherland.

[The 12th Commandment]

well as can be expected, they removed the breathing tube and did a tracheotomy

perhaps she can speak now

It's the same place they ****ed with me though it was done with a scalpel and drill, not a bullet. I couldn't talk for a month and I still have trouble when I'm tired 4 years later. I really doubt she can talk yet and I would think she's going to have a long slog when it comes to speech in particular. It's an amazingly fine set of movements that produces sound as speech and it takes so little to screw it all up. I hope she is.

[ACW]

It's the same place they ****ed with me though it was done with a scalpel and drill, not a bullet. I couldn't talk for a month and I still have trouble when I'm tired 4 years later. I really doubt she can talk yet and I would think she's going to have a long slog when it comes to speech in particular. It's an amazingly fine set of movements that produces sound as speech and it takes so little to screw it all up. I hope she is.

Wait, you had a tracheotomy?

[mardi gras skin]

Amazingly I agree we should use that information,but it needs to also extend to civilian medical professionals

a record of excessive drug use should be added to the database for gun purchases.

Ya can't control ya drug use you sure don't need to be buying a gun at least till you can provide a record of being clean.

I agree. This includes alcohol. Especially alcohol.

[The 12th Commandment]

Wait, you had a tracheotomy?

No, I don't think she does either, they just stick an intubation (sp) tube down your throat. Geez, it sucked too once I could realize what it was, I imagine that why she's been grabbing at it. I wanted that thing out soooo bad.

I had a craniotomy on the right side of my head just above my ear. There's some threads about it in the 07 archive. Not saying it's comparable to being shot, just how difficult it was for me to start speaking again after something clean done by a surgeon. I had to do six weeks of speech therapy to start talking normally again. They only took out just a tinsy little bit I imagine she lost a substantial amount of tissue. Poor lady, I feel guilty feeling some empathy for her but a brain injury is a brain injury (that's what they tell you) and it's not like ****ing with any other part of your body. It ****s with you not your body. I don't know if that makes sense but that's how I can explain it.

[twa]

Wait, you had a tracheotomy?

it's the breathing tube that effects the speech/larynx

[The 12th Commandment]

it's the breathing tube that effects the speech/larynx

Not so much. That part of your melon is your speech center (above your left ear).

[twa]

sorry,thought you were referring to being intubated too long....which can damage the larynx

The lady does have some hard road ahead despite her amazing progress

[The 12th Commandment]

sorry,thought you were referring to being intubated too long....which can damage the larynx

The lady does have some hard road ahead despite her amazing progress

No prob. If I can pull one good thing from that damn experience that's useful in order to just get the slightest clue what she's going through it seems to me I should. I was hoarse for a long time and I drank a freaking gallon of water when they took that tube out. Proceeded to puke it all up but even that was better than the extreme dry in my throat I'd had for a week since I woke up.

You're right though, she has done amazingly well and it bodes for a good outcome. I'm really glad it looks that way.

[Baculus]

So when evidence comes in to dispel the "THERE IS NO MOSQUE!!!" screaming from the sympatizers, the next move is for those who disagree with the location of the proposed Mosque is to now be onboard because the corporate side of Fox News allegedly supports it. Wow I guess we should be lock step with them because we are a monolithic, bunch of lemmings who will support anything with GOP associated with it as the left does with Dems. Uhhh No I don't.]

Just because there is as prayer space in the planned Park51 center doesn't make it a Mosque, as much as a prayer space in a Jewish community center doesn't make it a synagogue, either. The link you provided in your previous post called it a "community center" because that's what it is.

Again, there's already a mosque in the area. Why won't you address that fact? Why is this ignored in all of the hsyteria?

I don't know why you are so passionately against THIS mosque when one isn't too far from it, and when it is obvious that more Western leaning Muslims are involved with this project. Western-leaning enough that he's involved with a channel that you and other right-wingers watch. Which is the strange irony about the reaction from the Fox-watching, anti-Park51 opposing crowd: They are actually helping to fund the Mosque when they watch Fox, contribute to its advertising dollars, buy books from its pundits, etc. But seeing how Fox News has actually promoted an anti-Park51 position (which means that you are actually marching lock-step with them), News Corp. is actually playing both sides of the game and riling up their right-wing base while scraping in bucks for their Saudi investor.

Oh, such irony. And the Right are totally oblivious to it.

On the Social justice in church topic, when a church's teachings are altered where christians in that church are supposed to now go with a collective salvation instead of individual, it should be pointed out.

Actually, those who preach social justice get their cues from Jesus Christ. Unless, of course you're talking about Supply-side Jesus, or if you're reading from the Conservative Bible, then Jesus (you know, the one who ran the money changers from the Temple) is a flaming capitalist who would oppose the idea of helping the less fortunate.

Collective salvation seems preached more in liberation theology, which is outside the Catholic church (and probably most churches in the U.S.).

Now you see churches who embrace "Social justice" in Maryland (Ft Washington, Prince Georges county) trying to convince its flock that illegal aliens are US Citizens or that they should do what they can to provide for them. Why would I defend the dumbing down of Christianity?

"Dumbing down"?

Wait -- I thought you wanted people to defend Christianity, but here you are finding reason to attack it. So, which is it? Defend Christianity? Attack Christianity? Maybe you don't like Catholics, or maybe you're really more concerned with defending Western culture (but saying "Christianity" has a nicer ring to it)? Or does Glenn Beck (the Mormon -- not exactly a standard Protestant faith) have to give us an approved list of which churches and doctrine is acceptable?

Definition of social justice (Hijacked progressive version): Forced redistribution of wealth with a hostility toward individual property rights, under the guise of charity and/or justice.

Social justice is the belief in equality -- legal, social, and economic. Here is a page which has a Catholic view on the subject:

http://www.osjspm.org/major_themes.aspx

[Burgold]

It's the same place they ****ed with me though it was done with a scalpel and drill, not a bullet. I couldn't talk for a month and I still have trouble when I'm tired 4 years later. I really doubt she can talk yet and I would think she's going to have a long slog when it comes to speech in particular. It's an amazingly fine set of movements that produces sound as speech and it takes so little to screw it all up. I hope she is.

Hopefully, her fine motor hasn't been impacted. If that's mostly intact she can communicate through sign or writing in the meantime. I once was working with a senior who you could tell was completely cognitively intact and with it, but had suffered a stroke and couldn't verbalize or use her hands. It was incredibly frustrating for her and anyone trying to help her. Such a wseet lady though.