Multiple Sources: Multiple shot including Congress Woman

[Baculus]

You're very late to the meeting Mr. Krugman and you haven't offered anything that has not been spittled before. Read the ENTIRE thread for a comprehensive understanding.

Sorry, but I have also been paying attention to the right-wing response -- I don't need to read a sixty page thread to gain a "comprehensive understanding." Either you are able or unable to respond to my post: If you can't rebute what I said, then maybe you need to familiarize yourself with what I am discussing.

Plus, Krugman had a different point then my own -- he is more pointed in his attacks. My (frustrated) response is that the right-wing is continually playing the victim, and after decrying the "politicizing" of the shooting, they are well launching into their own attacks.

Let me ask you this: Do you believe that Loughner has the "support" of the DNC?

---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 11:51 PM ----------

I mean, it's probably a good idea.

That may be true, but these egoists twisted the discussion so that it's all about them. "We're under attack and our safety is questionable." Not only that, but both Beck and Palin, especially Beck, are guilty of using heated language (with Beck flat-out fantasizing about murdering people).

[NavyDave]

It's how they always operate: it's the collective, with Rush Limbaugh as the Queen Bee.

---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 11:31 PM ----------

A bizarre remark after you excused away Dr. Tiller's murder.

You don't give a rat's arse about "hostile rhetoric" from the Right because you are too busy blaming liberals for all of society's ills.

Where did I excuse away his murder? Oh its because I didn't get weepy over his death by a nutjob.

If you remember I said I may have to consider being prochoice when it came to liberals, skinheads and human debris aborting their fetuses but that joke didn't go over well several years ago.

I don't blame liberals for all of society's ills, the Corrupt, the Greedy, both Soccer fans blackmailing ESPN to televise Snoreball, The power hungry, Stupid and Slackers have a hand in it too.

[Baculus]

Not at all. It's been here 1-2 days ago. Perhaps as early as 1 day after the shooting. It's in this thread. Check it out. Perhaps the sheriff need a class on professional introspection before he vomits his political predisposition o the world. Wouldn't that have been the smarter thing to do?

Have you demanded "professional introspection" from conservatives as well? Or does it only apply to sheriffs who make comments right after a shooting?

[aREDSKIN]

Sorry, but I have also been paying attention to the right-wing response -- I don't need to read a sixty page thread to gain a "comprehensive understanding." Either you are able or unable to respond to my post: If you can't rebute what I said, then maybe you need to familiarize yourself with what I am discussing.

Plus, Krugman had a different point then my own -- he is more pointed in his attacks. My (frustrated) response is that the right-wing is continually playing the victim, and after decrying the "politicizing" of the shooting, they are well launching into their own attacks.

Let me ask you this: Do you believe that Loughner has the "support" of the DNC?

---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 11:51 PM ----------

IMO it's fairly obvious that this criminal didn't have the support of anyone. If he did ( i'm referring to mental health help) then perhaps this entire episode could have been avoided.

[NavyDave]

I hear that some congress people have said they will start bringing guns to meet and greets

Yeah Heath Shuler but if his aim is anything like his throwing accuracy was, you might prefer going bird hunting with Dick Cheney

[DeaconBlue]

There is a reason why we can't have a rational discussion on this: Because the right-wing has become bat-**** crazy.

No. Check a mirror and reread your own posts. You are for damned sure just as responsible for your inabilty to have a rational discussion on this or any other matter as anyone on the other side of the debate. You are just as delusionally fixated on your own political ideology as any of your foes here. In the few days since this happened there has been little concrete known as to exactly where in the political spectrum this guy fell. Yet alot of folks seem to have decided that in the interim that they can blame who or whatever they like for this tragedy. I have seen calls for challenges to everything from the 2nd amendment to free speech and you wonder why people are concerned? Really? Oh well I geuss no tragedy should go to waste.

[Predicto]

I mean, it's probably a good idea.

It is a good idea.

But there was no need for Beck to discuss it openly (except maybe to further cast conservatives as the true victims here...) Why put that idea in the head of a new deranged attention-seeker?

[Baculus]

Where did I excuse away his murder? Oh its because I didn't get weepy over his death by a nutjob.

If you remember I said I may have to consider being prochoice when it came to liberals, skinheads and human debris aborting their fetuses but that joke didn't go over well several years ago.

I don't blame liberals for all of society's ills, the Corrupt, the Greedy, both Soccer fans blackmailing ESPN to televise Snoreball, The power hungry, Stupid and Slackers have a hand in it too.

This is what you said:

"Ah yeah the child murderer err the late, lateterm abortionist. Didn't bad people with bad aim tried to take him out before there was this rhetoric over a decade ago?

But yes it is wrong for vigilantes to correct what they perceive as societal wrong."

I mean, seriously, why do I bother? It is obvious that you have a whole filing cabinet of people you hate -- it is a fruitless conversation.

I will say this: You are entirely clueless to what "liberal" even means, and that is why your hatred is entirely saddening.

[aREDSKIN]

Have you demanded "professional introspection" from conservatives as well? Or does it only apply to sheriffs who make comments right after a shooting?

Perhaps it's just me but IMO a "professional" LEO and "shock Jocks" and or "talking heads" have vastly different roles & responsibilities. Some are paid to agitate and asunder some are not.

[RansomthePasserby]

But there was no need for Beck to discuss it openly (except maybe to further cast conservatives as the true victims here...) Why put that idea in the head of a new deranged attention-seeker?

Agreed.

[Baculus]

No. Check a morior and reread your own posts. You are for damned sure just as responsible for your inabilty to have a rational discussion on this or any other matter as anyone on the other side of the debate. You are just as delusionally fixated on your own political ideology as any of your foes here. In the few days since this happened there has been little concrete known as to exactly where in the political spectrum this guy fell. Yet alot of folks seem to have decided that in the interim that they can blame who or whatever they like for this tragedy. I have seen calls for challenges to everythiung for the 2nd amendment to free speech and you wonder why people are concerned? Really? Oh well I geuss no tragedy should go to waste.

Did you read a SINGLE thing I said? I am not trying to blame the shooting on conservatives. What I am decrying is the inability for some people to even talk about this issue, period. This should be a healthy conversation from both sides of the aisle, but in particular from one side of the aisle -- the Right -- that has been extremely over-the-top in their tone. It ain't the left who have been talking about "second amendment solutions" and accusing the other side of being "communists trying to destroy the country who must be stopped at all costs."

You guys act like the response from the Left is coming out of a total vacuum. It's absurd.

Try reading what I posted before replying; otherwise you are wasting both of our time.

[Bang]

Well, some ":good" news.. according to NBC news, apparently Arizona is rushing a bill thru to prevent the Westboro Loonies from protesting.

Hope it works.

~Bang

[Baculus]

Perhaps it's just me but IMO a "professional" LEO and "shock Jocks" and or "talking heads" have vastly different roles & responsibilities. Some are paid to agitate and asunder some are not.

Agitate and asunder -- Oh, you mean by agitating people to go shoot up liberal organizations, such as the TIDES foundation?

And I hear extreme political attacks from members of the GOP all the time, so, please -- enough. You're throwing stones in a glass house.

[NavyDave]

Do you really want to play the lame game of the one or two goods making one a Christian and ignoring everything else a person does?

I mean Pelosi goes to church, Tiller I think was in a church why would a person kill a good Christian attending church

So you are comparing a Late lateterm abortionist and a former majority house speaker who represents a segment in her district thats anti god to a guy who wore his faith on his sleeve sometimes too much?

Two goods? Dubba Ya increased entitlement spending and basically gave Ted Kennedy a blank check when it came to writing the Education bill at the time the largest ever (including the no child left behind act which he and Kennedy should be credited or blamed for depending on your point of view).

I do blame dubba ya for not getting drilling set up in Anwar when he had the chance which with climbing gas prices would have been a big good.

[Baculus]

IMO it's fairly obvious that this criminal didn't have the support of anyone. If he did ( i'm referring to mental health help) then perhaps this entire episode could have been avoided.

I said nothing about that in my posts. It is obvious the shooter is a loon. The entire thrust of my responses today has been the doubling-down of the right-wing response, which is, in their usual typical manner, to blame the Left for everything.

"The shooter was a leftist; the leftists are trying to use this shooting to attack and destroy the Tea Party; the sheriff is a liberal who hates conservatives; and it's the leftists who are really the violent ones."

Whatever.

---------- Post added January-12th-2011 at 12:12 AM ----------

One additional spin, which I found to be puzzling: Michelle Malkin, when talking about Loughner, said that he's "anti-government," which, to her, isn't "conservative," and then earlier today Glenn Beck describing Loughner as being a "big government liberal."

Apparently the echo chamber is malfunctioning because the talking points are starting to become inconsistent.

[NavyDave]

Well, some ":good" news.. according to NBC news, apparently Arizona is rushing a bill thru to prevent the Westboro Loonies from protesting.

Hope it works.

~Bang

If it doesn't hopefully there is a turnout so large that they can occupy the spot they are allowed to set up and are blocked from the view of the family and other mourners.

[Baculus]

So you are comparing a Late lateterm abortionist and a former majority house speaker who represents a segment in her district thats anti god to a guy who wore his faith on his sleeve sometimes too much?

I am sorry, but murdering someone is not wearing one's faith on a sleeve "too much" unless you're a radical Muslim . . . or Christian.

It's strange how religious radicalism seems to meet.

Two goods? Dubba Ya increased entitlement spending and basically gave Ted Kennedy a blank check when it came to writing the Education bill at the time the largest ever (including the no child left behind act which he and Kennedy should be credited or blamed for depending on your point of view).

That's not entirely true.

I do blame dubba ya for not getting drilling set up in Anwar when he had the chance which with climbing gas prices would have been a big good.

Maybe if Reagan had squashed the alternative fuel program two decades ago then we wouldn't have to drill in ANWAR (whose oil reserves is limited and would take time to reach the market).

[NavyDave]

This is what you said:

"Ah yeah the child murderer err the late, lateterm abortionist. Didn't bad people with bad aim tried to take him out before there was this rhetoric over a decade ago?

But yes it is wrong for vigilantes to correct what they perceive as societal wrong."

I mean, seriously, why do I bother? It is obvious that you have a whole filing cabinet of people you hate -- it is a fruitless conversation.

I will say this: You are entirely clueless to what "liberal" even means, and that is why your hatred is entirely saddening.

One nurse at Tiller's office admitted that several babies survived the initial abortion attempts didn't that make them a child during the time they were alive? I don't hate I do feel pity for alot of people tough.

Oh I know what today's version of liberal is considering I used to be one.

---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 07:25 PM ----------

Yum yum Grouper and pasta.

Ciao :D

[MrSilverMaC]

Perhaps it's just me but IMO a "professional" LEO and "shock Jocks" and or "talking heads" have vastly different roles & responsibilities. Some are paid to agitate and asunder some are not.

I'm curious, and I am not sure if this question has been posed to you or anyone sharing your opinions, but cops have for years now been speaking out against "gangster rap" and people generally on the conservative side of the spectrum agree that the rhetoric in rap and from the rap culture spurs violence and inspires violent acts. How then is this different? And if a sheriff has identified violent political rhetoric as a possible source of recent violence, why then is it wrong for him to say so if it is ok to mention other sources by LEO's?

[Baculus]

One nurse at Tiller's office admitted that several babies survived the initial abortion attempts didn't that make them a child during the time they were alive?

I don't know anything about this, but you'd think it would become a higher profile issue if this were true.

I don't hate I do feel pity for alot of people tough.

Hmm -- I never would have perceived your sentiments as pity, which tends to be ascribed to "bleeding hearts."

Christianity is supposed to be a religion of love, ain't it? Shooting someone isn't an example of that; it's what madmen do, as we have recently seen.

Oh I know what today's version of liberal is considering I used to be one.

Liberalism is a complex ideology. As an example of this, the small government, individualistic conservatism of the 21st century is a form of liberalism, at least the economic element that has been absorbed by conservatives. (A reality that many on the Right don't even realize while they demonize liberals). The U.S., in historical context, is a liberal democracy which extols freedom of speech, the right to freely assemble, democratic representation in governance, etc.: All features of liberalism.

Many liberals today are social liberals -- that's the difference. They believe that equality cannot be achieved while inequalities in education, economics, and health care exist, and they still believe in an egalitarian America, which used to be a common sentiment among Americans.

Social liberalism is not socialism. It is not communism. It is not fascism. A district branch of one of the West's most important ideology, for America would not even exist without liberalism.

[aREDSKIN]

I'm curious, and I am not sure if this question has been posed to you or anyone sharing your opinions, but cops have for years now been speaking out against "gangster rap" and people generally on the conservative side of the spectrum agree that the rhetoric in rap and from the rap culture spurs violence and inspires violent acts. How then is this different? And if a sheriff has identified violent political rhetoric as a possible source of recent violence, why then is it wrong for him to say so if it is ok to mention other sources by LEO's?

This sheriff specifically tied the violence of this man and right wing rhetoric. There is no tie. There wasn't when he conjectured about it there isn't now. IMO a professional LEO ,especially in a catastrophic case like this, needs to stick to the FACTS and no this own preconceived political irritants.

[10fttall]

I'm curious, and I am not sure if this question has been posed to you or anyone sharing your opinions, but cops have for years now been speaking out against "gangster rap" and people generally on the conservative side of the spectrum agree that the rhetoric in rap and from the rap culture spurs violence and inspires violent acts. How then is this different? And if a sheriff has identified violent political rhetoric as a possible source of recent violence, why then is it wrong for him to say so if it is ok to mention other sources by LEO's?

How is that different? Hmmm...I wonder... there might be some teeny differences...maybe the explicit and specific mention of guns, bragging about their type, talking proudly about using them on people, talking proudly about beatings, muggings, robbery, and physical retribution, talking proudly about treating women badly, talking proudly about using a plethora of illegal substances. Maybe, just maybe you can spot some differences between this and saying that someone's policies are detrimental to our country.

And the sheriff did not identify anything as the possible anything. He spouted off at the mouth ignorant of ANY actual facts. But he didn't let that stop him from making very serious allegations against people who he disagrees with politically. And his course of action was highly unprofessional. His continued bellyaching to this day, even though he is absolutely wrong and has not one bit of actual fact supporting him, is despicable.

[Dan T.]

I told myself I wasn't going to revisit this mess of a thread, but this was too good not to post:

TUCSON, Ariz. – One of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' doctors declared Tuesday she has "a 101 percent chance of surviving," as she made more progress, moving both arms and breathing on her own for the first time — just three days after a bullet shot through her brain. Doctors emphasize she is in for a long recovery, and her neurosurgeon repeated his cautionary phrase of "she's holding her own." But there was no denying what was clearly good news.

Giffords, a three-time Democrat, remains in critical condition at Tucson's University Medical Center where she was operated on Saturday after being shot during a meeting with constituents outside a Safeway supermarket. The attack killed six and injured 14 others. Six remained hospitalized. Giffords' improvement has been incremental, but impressive. Doctors previously reported she raised two fingers of her left hand and gave a thumbs-up when responding to verbal commands. Now they say she is moving her arms.

"She has a 101 percent chance of surviving," said trauma chief Dr. Peter Rhee said. "She will not die. She does not have that permission from me."

She also can breathe on her own but still has a breathing tube in place as a precaution, said her neurosurgeon Dr. Michael Lemole. In their briefing Tuesday, doctors also reversed themselves in describing the path of the bullet. They now believe she was shot in the forehead, with the bullet traveling the length of the left side of the brain, exiting the back. Doctors previously thought she had been shot in the back of the head. They came to the new conclusion after reviewing X-rays and brain scans and consulting with two outside physicians with experience treating combat victims.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot_giffords

[Burgold]

Wonderful news.

[RansomthePasserby]

Good to hear.