The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, samy316 said:

In a draft that many are labeling as the worst draft in modern history.  The Wizards really are a joke in every possible way.  They picked the wrong year to start tanking.  Should’ve begun the tanking process last year, might’ve ended up with Wemby, or any player that ended up being drafted in the top 5.  No player in this years draft comes close to anyone that was drafted last year.  The Wizards will have to be this bad (or worse) next year, since next years draft will have better prospects.

 

They have to know that and imagine trading the pick if it's high but not useful as they need to be will be on the table.

 

My bigger concern is player development, is anyone on the team better then start of the season besides maybe Dani?

Edited April 8 by Renegade7

[@DCGoldPants]

59 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

They have ro know that and imagine trading the pick if it's high but not useful as they need to be will be on the table.

 

My bigger concern is player development, is anyone on the team better then start of the season besides maybe Dani?

 

Not really, that's why Wes was moved from the HC spot and I imagine they will be hiring a new coaching staff in the offseason. Someone they feel will be there through some development years.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

They have ro know that and imagine trading the pick if it's high but not useful as they need to be will be on the table.

 

My bigger concern is player development, is anyone on the team better then start of the season besides maybe Dani?

Corey Kispert?

 

Having arguably a breakout season.

 

Has added the ability to slash to the basket.

 

I didn't think he'd ever be able to do that.

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

Corey Kispert?

 

Having arguably a breakout season.

 

Has added the ability to slash to the basket.

 

I didn't think he'd ever be able to do that.

 

Breakout?

 

He's averaging 13 ppg right, he was averaging 11 last year.

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kispeco01.html

 

At some point towards end of last year he was averaging what Beal was, close to 23 ppg.  major disappointment in my book he's barely averaging half that.

 

You want to make case he's improving, sure, I guess, numbers technically support that.  Be nice as a 1st round pick he's averaging at least 15 next season, 20 by year 5.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

30 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Breakout?

 

He's averaging 13 ppg right, he was averaging 11 last year.

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kispeco01.html

 

At some point towards end of last year he was averaging what Beal was, close to 23 ppg.  major disappointment in my book he's barely averaging half that.

 

You want to make case he's improving, sure, I guess, numbers technically support that.  Be nice as a 1st round pick he's averaging at least 15 next season, 20 by year 5.

You seem to be focused primarily on the ppg and that's fine.

 

Imo, his overall game has expanded.

 

 

Some neat stats I just found:

 

 

Edited April 8 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Renegade7]

@BRAVEONAWARPATH

 

Breakout is a strong word, I feel it's appropriate to start there.

 

To make sure I'm on same page. Is that stat you posted focused on attempts or makes? 

 

Edit: his 3pt make % is down from last year, .424 down to .381

Edited April 8 by Renegade7

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

@BRAVEONAWARPATH

 

Breakout is a strong word, I feel it's appropriate to start there.

 

To make sure I'm on same page. Is that stat you posted focused on attempts or makes? 

Attempts and the made percentage.

[Destino]

Is it time to start talking about how bad this draft class is?

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@BRAVEONAWARPATH

 

Breakout is a strong word, I feel it's appropriate to start there.

 

To make sure I'm on same page. Is that stat you posted focused on attempts or makes? 

 

Edit: his 3pt make % is down from last year, .424 down to .381

I can see where you're coming from in regards to "Breakout". I'll just say he's expanded his game.

 

 

And yeah, I noticed his percentage is down.

 

Still above league average but down nonetheless.

Just now, Destino said:

Is it time to start talking about how bad this draft class is?

It's BAD....but there's a few guys I'm intrigued by.

 

Alexandre Sarr for example.

[Fergasun]

Kuzma needs to be traded at the deadline next year. Deni and Corey can fill his production.  Not sure what's going on with the Wizards on the defensive end.  

 

Although, end of the year performances should really be discounted.

[Hersh]

49 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

Kuzma needs to be traded at the deadline next year. Deni and Corey can fill his production.  Not sure what's going on with the Wizards on the defensive end.  

 

Although, end of the year performances should really be discounted.

 

Kuzma needs to be traded this off-season and Corey either this off-season or at the deadline. Aside from Deni, Bilal and Vuc, there is no one likely to be here long term nor should be. The tanking part of this rebuild is likely to continue for 2 more seasons. 

[Renegade7]

Can't jus keep accumulating assets, at what point will building culture matter?

 

Kuz says he wants to be here, how many players in the NBA can we say that about?

 

Path of least resistance would be we get #1 pick in a terrible draft so NBA can say they didn't forget about us and we draft Sarr.  At some point have to keep count of how many first round picks we already have on the roster and what veterans would help not interfere with their development but not leave too much pressure on them.

 

Kuz isn't a player that can be built around as a the focal point, but he seems overwhelmed because we asking him too do too much and it directly interferes with being able to get the most out of him.  Constantly trading our players that do have value and giving up on the 1st round picks we have still contributing will push this rebuild into next decade.

 

One more year of intentionally not being competitive may be understandable, two more years is basically The Process.

[Ball Security]

Keep tanking for Braylen Davis. Anything less would be uncivilized.

[mhd24]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Can't jus keep accumulating assets, at what point will building culture matter?

 

Kuz says he wants to be here, how many players in the NBA can we say that about?

 

Path of least resistance would be we get #1 pick in a terrible draft so NBA can say they didn't forget about us and we draft Sarr.  At some point have to keep count of how many first round picks we already have on the roster and what veterans would help not interfere with their development but not leave too much pressure on them.

 

Kuz isn't a player that can be built around as a the focal point, but he seems overwhelmed because we asking him too do too much and it directly interferes with being able to get the most out of him.  Constantly trading our players that do have value and giving up on the 1st round picks we have still contributing will push this rebuild into next decade.

 

One more year of intentionally not being competitive may be understandable, two more years is basically The Process.

Oh, they are tanking for two mor years at least.  That Knicks pick is top 8 protected in 2026.  

[Fergasun]

@Renegade7

We are in the process right now.  Even the Spurs with Wemby need another young stud.. 

 

NBA is a "bust to boom" process or "mid to mid".  It's been a good 5 to 7 years of "mid to mid". Do you really want them to go back to mid?  

[Renegade7]

45 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

@Renegade7

We are in the process right now.  Even the Spurs with Wemby need another young stud.. 

 

NBA is a "bust to boom" process or "mid to mid".  It's been a good 5 to 7 years of "mid to mid". Do you really want them to go back to mid?  

 

I'm so tired of this debate.

 

Winning organizations draft where they draft and focus heavy on building winning culture and player development.

 

Intentionally losing in order to hopefully win is still one of the top 10 dumbest things I've ever heard.  Philly is now a struggling 7th seed. I'm not impressed by their results enough to want to replicate.

 

It's lazy to lose to get players at the detriment of the players we already have.  It's a recipe for the few decent ones we do have going elsewhere to be quality role players for other teams, Wizards are basically a farm system right now.

 

 

Edited April 8 by Renegade7

[Renegade7]

Because I made @gbear cry, I have to come back and say I have hope for the future given the money jus gave new training facility in DC practically next door to the arena.

 

Having something state of the art and not shared would be a big deal towards player development and the reputation our current facilities are completely unattractive to outside free agents.

 

Nobody thinks they can come here and get better, that could change soon, but it also has to change.

[ixcuincle]

51 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

@Renegade7

We are in the process right now.  Even the Spurs with Wemby need another young stud.. 

 

NBA is a "bust to boom" process or "mid to mid".  It's been a good 5 to 7 years of "mid to mid". Do you really want them to go back to mid?  

yes 

 

Everyone points to Philly being the prime example of the Process, but what happened to Detroit and Charlotte and Orlando? They have been ass for many years, tanking for guys like Paolo Banchero, Cade Cunningham and even Lamelo on Charlotte. How good are they?

 

What makes you all think drafting one player in a weak draft is going to change things? Yes, the rebuild is going to take several years. And it would have taken less time had they kept Porzingis, didn't trade Gafford. Beal, fine, trade him. But that was it. Trading anyone else was dumb. Especially Gafford.

 

I don't like the Warriors but they built everything from the ground up. Curry, Thompson, Draymond. And we can't even develop one player? Why would you want to draft #1 and #4 or #5 next year, have several top 10 picks, and then miss out. That's what Sacramento did for nearly 10 years. They drafted top 10 for ten years and had zero playoff appearances.

 

Better we stayed mid, be 40-40, sneak into the playoffs, than go 15-70 for like 3 straight years. That will legitimately kill a franchise. Look what it did to the Pistons

Edited April 8 by ixcuincle

[CRobi21]

Need to keep this tank going into 2025 and position ourselves for Cooper Flagg. Pretty sure he's committed to Duke and should be a one and done

[Hersh]

34 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

yes 

 

Everyone points to Philly being the prime example of the Process, but what happened to Detroit and Charlotte and Orlando? They have been ass for many years, tanking for guys like Paolo Banchero, Cade Cunningham and even Lamelo on Charlotte. How good are they?

 

What makes you all think drafting one player in a weak draft is going to change things? Yes, the rebuild is going to take several years. And it would have taken less time had they kept Porzingis, didn't trade Gafford. Beal, fine, trade him. But that was it. Trading anyone else was dumb. Especially Gafford.

 

I don't like the Warriors but they built everything from the ground up. Curry, Thompson, Draymond. And we can't even develop one player? Why would you want to draft #1 and #4 or #5 next year, have several top 10 picks, and then miss out. That's what Sacramento did for nearly 10 years. They drafted top 10 for ten years and had zero playoff appearances.

 

Better we stayed mid, be 40-40, sneak into the playoffs, than go 15-70 for like 3 straight years. That will legitimately kill a franchise. Look what it did to the Pistons

 

 

First, Porzingis was going to opt out. He wasn't staying so there was no keeping him. Now on to the rest.

 

Orlando is currently the 3 seed and will finish in the 2-6 range. OKC spent two seasons being intentionally terrible after the PG trade and they are locked into a top-3 seed in the loaded West. The Spurs now have a generational talent. 

 

Charlotte and Detroit have core pieces that are always injured. They might be better if they were healthy but they've also had bad drafts. Tanking doesn't work if you don't have a good front office. The 76ers not drafting Tatum is an all time blunder in their process. 

 

Teams only win in the NBA with elite talent. The Wiz lack that and when they tried to be mid, they sucked at it and missed the playoffs in an awful conference. They are finally on the right path. It's going to be painful for a couple of season, but they will load up with high end talent and be better than they've been in the recent past. 

 

 

18 minutes ago, CRobi21 said:

Need to keep this tank going into 2025 and position ourselves for Cooper Flagg. Pretty sure he's committed to Duke and should be a one and done

 

Or Ace Bailey. A top-2 pick next season is hugely important. 

[Hersh]

Let's also get into the myth that other teams are just great at drafting no matter where they are in the draft. If you don't think the Beal no-trade clause didn't set the Wiz back a few years, you don't know recent NBA history. 

 

Timberwolves draft KAT and Ant #1 overall in different years. They are first in the West. 

 

OKC was able to trade PG for a haul that included SGA and they drafted Chet #2. They've done a lot in trades. 

 

Boston drafted Tatum #3 and Brown at #3. They got a huge haul in trades. 

 

Pelicans got AD #1 then Zion #1. 

 

Kings got Fox #5

 

Dallas got Luka #3

 

Memphis got Ja #2 and Jackson Jr. #4. 

 

Unless you are a place that stars want to go, like LA, Phoenix or Miami, you are far more likely to build a winner with high draft picks. Yes, you could get fluky like Denver or the Bucks, but that's the exception to the rule. 

 

[Ball Security]

3 hours ago, Destino said:

Is it time to start talking about how bad this draft class is?

It really is. I remember at the beginning of the season, the talk was Isiah Collier (USC G) and Ron Holland (G League) at the top of the draft. They may not even be lottery picks and it’s not because other guys are really shooting up the boards. Reed Shephard being mocked at #3. Really? Cody Williams? Gets shut out in the play in game. Filopowski gets dominated by Burns in the tournament.

 

Of the college guys, I really like Shannon, but he has some legal red flags. Clingan is showing that he can stretch out. I like him, but see him as a strong supporting guy, not a star.

 

FWIW, I’m really bad at predicting how prospects will turn out. 😂

[Renegade7]

10 minutes ago, Hersh said:

Let's also get into the myth that other teams are just great at drafting no matter where they are in the draft.

 

Nobody gets them all right, no one is sayin that.

 

But it's hard to get quality players once you get past the lottery and took work to get those players to their potential.

 

It takes great scouting, player development, and coaching in order to do that.  You can have three lottery picks in a row and waste all of them if you don't even try to do those three things.  You also at some point have to build around what you get right, not jus hit once.

@Hersh

 

I gotta come back for rest of your post, because in that list I see about one or two lottery picks per team, so why are we talking about trying to get three losing seasons for three or more lottery picks?

 

Cleveland was a "destination" city when folks were ring chasing when LeBron was there, not anymore.  You make yourself into a destination city by being a contender, not the climate or how much taxes.

[Warhead36]

We're gonna end up with the number 1 pick in what'll be the worst class since 2001, ironically one of the other times we got the number 1 pick. Sandwiched between two franchise game changers.

[abdcskins]

Drafting is the name of the game.  There is no other way around it, because no free agents want to sign here.  Aside from that, as Renegade mentioned, player development is essential.  We gotta somehow get better with what we currently have.  We need to get a good coaching staff.

 

It is a long bleak road, sad to say.