Going against the Mob, somewhat in support of Haynesworth

[Henry]

So we finally hold the front office accountable and clean house, replacing, um, to be nice, "unqualified people" with qualified people*, and now suddenly we should start questioning every move made by management and siding with a player that to this point has done nothing to warrant such defense?

Where's the logic in that? I mean, this is where we are drawing the line in the sand, because Haynesworth also doesn't support the change to a 3-4?

I don't think ANYONE is saying we should be siding with Haynesworth. Certainly not I.

What I'm saying (I think) is that Haynesworth is just a player. He's just not worth the amount of teeth gnashing and hair-pulling that's been going on lately. When the season starts, we'll move on without him (most likely) and life will go on one way or the other. What I'm concerned with is that 'going on' part. That's more important to me than what a jerk Haynesworth is. We spend so much time getting mad at the player in this situation. It's not worth it. I don't care about revenge. I want to win. For a long time.

It's not about sides. It's about this team making good moves and avoiding really really stupid ones in the future.

[angel2]

my beef with AH is the way he handled it. Non of us know the whole truth and what was said when he first signed. But I expect him to at least have the decency to handle his concerns and/or confusion in a professional manner.

Show up, see the system first hand. If you don't like it, then it's fair to speak up. And just keep it internal. Realize that the attention is on you for being the highest paid player and don't let it affect the team the way it did.

But he has a performance contract. I agree with you that Albert has handled this badly. I am inclined to agree with others who suggest Haynesworth is lazy. There's no way Big Albert can be characterize as the victim here. He misjudged the fan and media outcry. Not that he cares, I think.

I still believe he will be here this season.

[artmonkforHOF]

I dont view Big Al as the only bad guy in this situation. This is as much the Redskins front office's fault as it is Big Al's.

I keep bringing this up, yet no one seems to notice that no other NFL team was going to make an initial offer over $50mill, and let the bidding go up from there, but Danny boy jumped in with $100mil right away. He didn't even wait for another offer to be made to the big man that he could have beat.

That easily is one of the dumbest moves Dan has ever made. At the time of the signing, when a reporter asked Dan something along the lines of "did you not learn your lesson that laying out big money on long contracts for veteran players doesn't work?" and Dan's response was "what I learned was you do not sign a 33 year old to a 7 yr deal(reffering to Brunell); signing a young guy like Big Al to 7 years is a smart move"

When I read that originally I got scared because Dan thinks he has learned something yet he completely ignores other factors like a players mindset or work ethic, key things other teams look at before handing out big $, and thinks that as long as he has the talent he wants, the team will do well. Then you get a mess like this when you change schemes without talking to your "franchise" player.

This is as much Dan's fault, if not more of Dan's fault than Big Al's.

[HailGreen28]

Let me get this straight? you actually are trying to make a case for shanny being knowledgeable about defence? lmao

1- hes never run a 3-4 before as a head coach.

2- he hired a guy who is not exactly a world beater as a DC to make the swap.

3- the defence wasnt the problem this team had, not even remotely.

put down the cool aid and step away from the computer.

Whose cool aid? You're the one saying:

1. Someone in the league as long as Mike freaking Shanahan can't decide the 3-4 is best for his team?

2. Ex-Steelers Defense Coor., Saints HC 2000-2006 (won Saints first playoff game and one "NFL coach of the year" award. Promoted from Def Coor. to interim HC with the Rams 2006-2008. 6-0 as a USFL HC, even though upset in "playoffs" it speaks well of him. Like the Joe Gibbs "scrubs" teams always did well - is "Not exactly a world beater". That's technically accurate, but Haslett's a fine catch for us, especially as defensive coor.

3. I agree defense wasn't a problem last season, but it wasn't much of an asset either. Our "bend not break" defense" scared absoulutely nobody like Green Bay's, Pittsburgh's, NYG's do. And other teams were always finding holes in it, like ye olde WR slant in - while our CB played 10 yards off the LOS. Good defenses don't let the losing streak Lions score a TD on a 99 yd drive.

You're a good poster, Ry. You're just trying to hard to defend Fat *** Haynesworthless.

[grego]

I'm curious, what has Shanahan done that indicates he's gonna stick around for a long time? Trade picks for an old QB? Trade picks for a tackle?

well, i cant really think of a reason why he wouldnt. he clearly wants to coach. he could bail after a year of 2, but i'm not sure why we would think he would. gibbs was lured back, but shanahan didnt need much convincing. he was fired and he wants to prove he didnt deserve it (maybe he did for his GM role mistakes).

i have no problem saying snyder was too quick to fire schotty. besides him, you could say turner (losing record vs every team in the division for 7 years, but yes, snyder meddled), spurrier (resigned anyhow) and zorn all had it coming.

i think snyder trusts HC's who have shown they can win. he's known shanny a long time and probably respects and likes him almost as much as gibbs.

i just cant see shanny stepping down before 4 or 5 yrs or snyder firing him.

[TheLongshot]

I keep bringing this up, yet no one seems to notice that no other NFL team was going to make an initial offer over $50mill, and let the bidding go up from there, but Danny boy jumped in with $100mil right away. He didn't even wait for another offer to be made to the big man that he could have beat.

First off, I'm not sure where you got that information. Second, whatever the Redskins offered, it wasn't good enough because Vinny started talking to Chris Canty's agent pretty soon after midnight because he wasn't making headway with Haynesworth.

It is kinda ironic that Canty probably would have been a better fit under the current scheme than Big Al.

When I read that originally I got scared because Dan thinks he has learned something yet he completely ignores other factors like a players mindset or work ethic, key things other teams look at before handing out big $, and thinks that as long as he has the talent he wants, the team will do well. Then you get a mess like this when you change schemes without talking to your "franchise" player.

This is as much Dan's fault, if not more of Dan's fault than Big Al's.

I'm not sure what you are going to do when the player says all the right things at the time, but goes back on them when things don't go his way. Read the quotes from his introductory press conference and it sure seems like he understood what he was getting into.

[addicted]

I hate to do this, seeing as how much anger is still being thrown around in this thread, but I agree with Ryman.

Albert is acting like a selfish, classless, egotistical jerk, but the Redskins are not completely innocent victims here. How many times over these years are we going to blame the player? Why is never the Redskins' fault that Sanders only plays one season here, or that Trotter plays two, or that Arrington dissappears from the roster and pays us to leave, or that Bailey doesn't want to play here, or that Coles doesn't like our scheme or Lloyd is an attitude problem or ... am I leaving anyone out?

Every year it seems like some high-profile player has turned into a raging selfish lunatic and the poor old Redskins have no choice but to get rid of him and move on.

You know what? At some point you gotta stop blaming the rest of the world.

If there's one thing we should know by now, it's that Snyder is great at bringing people in and ... that's it. Once a player is here our record at maximizing his abilities is spotty at best. This latest fiasco is merely another example of that.

Ryman is correct that Haynesworth was signed to be the centerpiece of our defense.

Ryman is correct that switching to a 3-4 is a huge head-scratcher of a move.

Ryman is correct that Haynesworth has no incentive to work with us in good faith when we have clearly not done so on our end.

Now many of you raise the good point that an honorable man would not take the money and then demand a trade. That is all on AH. But we allowed ourselves to be put in this position, and seeing as we'll still be rooting for the Redskins years after Haynesworth is gone and forgotton I think it would behoove us to learn, finally, from this mistake and stop repeating it, rather than just continuing to rage at the latest selfish player that doesn't want to try and keep up with our changing schemes.

I will now proceed to duck and cover.

Don't duck and cover when you are right, you and Ryman need to post more because it's posts like this that are well thought out that make this forum fun to read.

[Dan T.]

The original post is the football equivilent of Texas Congressman Joe Barton apologizing to BP.

[HailGreen28]

The original post is the football equivilent of Texas Congressman Joe Barton apologizing to BP.

Hey, the federal government changes regulations, changes people enforcing the regulations, and lies to people all the time. The oil spill is obviously THEIR fault, not BP's. Just like Fat Al's pocketing the money and demanding a trade is obviously the Skin's fault. Am I right?

:evilg:

[Ryman of the North]

Whose cool aid? You're the one saying:

1. Someone in the league as long as Mike freaking Shanahan can't decide the 3-4 is best for his team?

2. Ex-Steelers Defense Coor., Saints HC 2000-2006 (won Saints first playoff game and one "NFL coach of the year" award. Promoted from Def Coor. to interim HC with the Rams 2006-2008. 6-0 as a USFL HC, even though upset in "playoffs" it speaks well of him. Like the Joe Gibbs "scrubs" teams always did well - is "Not exactly a world beater". That's technically accurate, but Haslett's a fine catch for us, especially as defensive coor.

3. I agree defense wasn't a problem last season, but it wasn't much of an asset either. Our "bend not break" defense" scared absoulutely nobody like Green Bay's, Pittsburgh's, NYG's do. And other teams were always finding holes in it, like ye olde WR slant in - while our CB played 10 yards off the LOS. Good defenses don't let the losing streak Lions score a TD on a 99 yd drive.

You're a good poster, Ry. You're just trying to hard to defend Fat *** Haynesworthless.

1- yes thats exactly what I am saying, Shannahan is an offense guy, he knows next to nothing about defence. worse yet he came to a team where defence was a STRENGTH on a very poor team and decided to ****can it and start over.

2- Haslett has never fielded a defence that ranked better than 12, ever. the teams who have done this swap and had it work all had GURUS doing the swap, Haslett is not a guru. hes a driver, like a journeyman QB, he is a solid motivator but not a great schemer.

3- I agree that last year our D could have been worlds better had we tweaked it a bit, our Dbs are overrated and we lacked a Sam who could cover as well as a FS. but we could have tweaked our blitz package, signed a solid sam, a serious stud at DE (either Kampman or peppers) moved Rak to DE and a cover FS and we would have addressed thatm instead we blew it all up to gamble that all the guys who dont fit can make the swap, in the meantime we pissed off our best player and now we wonder why.

I am not entirely on Alberts side, I understand tho why he is mad, I wish he would shut up and play ball but I know that he wont. believe me I wish it had gone done another way.

[Ryman of the North]

The original post is the football equivilent of Texas Congressman Joe Barton apologizing to BP.

Lmao, or its someone who isnt gonna start wanting to lynch someone just because the first torch was lit. The truth is that there are three sides to every story and the truth would be somewhere in the middle.

[letzgoterps]

Go back to Canada and keep your crazy opinions there.

[SWFLSkins]

Actually, what I heard was that Blache didn't want AH here. Perhaps something our front office might have wanted to take into account when thinking about signing him? :whoknows:

NO need to duck and cover Henry, you make some very good points and they are well spelled out. The OP has a tendency to polish his pedastal when making his opinion known. You are the perfect example of how ones opinion though differing from the majority could be presented. Good job man.

And yeah the Haynesworth move to me was the wrong move if you were not considering his feelings in the long term, he was clearly known as a princess. I don't blame Blache for not wanting him, unless of course you were going make him the cornerstone of your defense.

I think this front office is the right one to get the Redskins out of the decade of debacle considering the signings this year. Was the 3-4 switch the right one, I will wait and see, Haynesworth seems to be it's first victim. Could he have been good in it, well that was up to him and he sounded off with a very loud NO. Was there more damage done to the Redskins Defense by this or more damage to AH himself? I think the latter.

[SWFLSkins]

Lmao, or its someone who isnt gonna start wanting to lynch someone just because the first torch was lit. The truth is that there are three sides to every story and the truth would be somewhere in the middle.

True there, the only problem I have had with you is that you post sometimes as if your torch is the only one lit. It is clear to me that many are expecting this team to turnaround instantly and win immediately, that is not going to happen. It is also clear that some here don't like Shannahan's approach, but won't let it play out because of past performance by the team. That is understandable.

But they are forgetting the fact that we the Redskins fans actually got what we wanted, accountability. No longer will guys like Haynesworth skip camps or workouts and get a pass. No longer will positions be set in stone, see RB, DL and OL. Don't be mad, we the Redskins fans got what we said we wanted.

[SWFLSkins]

Go back to Canada and keep your crazy opinions there.

Pretty funny that was your 420th post, or was it? btw, I am a Canadian lover.

[KDawg]

Pretty funny that was your 420th post, or was it? btw, I am a Canadian lover.

They have top notch beer... and women. :thumbsup:

[RichmondRedskin88]

F Haynesworth

He's a football player. You play whatever position your ask to. When your getting played 100 mil you better play what your paid to play. I think most of us would clean the entire stadium before the game play the game and clean the stadium after the game for every Redskin home game for the rest of our lives to get a 100 mil. Redskin Nation has given Hayneworth every benefit of the doubt on every little bull**** thing he's done on and off the field no matter how screwed up it sounded. This is how he repays the Redskin Nation? He whines and cries that he doesn't get to play the position he wants. I say get as much money as you can back and than get his *** out of DC!!! I remember when Portis started running his mouth and I just shook my head every time my eyes wandered over my 26 jersey in the closet. Finally Portis learned to keep his mouth shut and play football, which I was very glad about cuz I would have hated my last memory of Portis to be him leaving DC cuz he wouldn't shut his trap. I'll be damned if I put up with another big head, over paid, loud mouth, whiny little *****. We've had enough of those in DC.

[KDawg]

F Haynesworth

He's a football player.

Not right now he's not. He's a log at the moment.

[LD0506]

Not right now he's not. He's a log at the moment.

Ok, is it wrong that I thought of this?

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[Hitman21ST]

Ok, is it wrong that I thought of this?

That almost desribes Haynesworth to a T, except for the

"it's better than bad, it's good!"

He rolls down stairs and over dogs, he's big and heavy. Yeah, it fits him.

[brasi]

Haynesworth is a big fat clown. Cut him.

[McD5]

Ryman, any thoughts on Fat Al stiffing a bank?

Please, share your glorious insights. I am sure he is just misunderstood. The victim in all of this.

[Ryman of the North]

Ryman, any thoughts on Fat Al stiffing a bank?

Please, share your glorious insights. I am sure he is just misunderstood. The victim in all of this.

Umm its simple, money dont buy brains.

LMAO, I think hes an ill educated lackwit (lol at his tennessee eductaion) who is a very athletic human being who has done some stupid things through a sense of entitlement.

Hes gotten through life by being good at football and his agent is a piss poor excuse for a human being who looks the other way when Albert does stupid stuff because if he tried to get Albert to act right hed get fired and lose his meal ticket. His whole life people have probably let him get away with stuff because he is good at football, this means he is frozen in his developement as a person, probably somewhere in his teens.

I did a paper on people who come from poverty backgrounds who go to middle and upper class due to athletics and the stats are quite enlightening. Al is a classic case of someone who had nothing suddenly having the ability to have anything. and yet people are surprised when a guy who never had enough money to go to a movie on the weekend as a kid defaults on a loan? HE HAS NO CONCEPT OF MONEY OR RESPONSABILITY.

I brought this exact thing up when Arenas defaulted on a 50 grand loan after signing his massive contract.

I also think that because he is frozen somewhere in adolescence that he reacted very poorly to the team giving him an ultimatum after breaking its word to him about making him the focal point and running a 4-3 tailored to his strengths. not only was this just beyond his ability to understand but beyond his ability to accept.

[skinnyfan57]

Ok, is it wrong that I thought of this?

I thought of this...

[Larry Brown #43]

I'm not sure what you are going to do when the player says all the right things at the time, but goes back on them when things don't go his way. Read the quotes from his introductory press conference and it sure seems like he understood what he was getting into.

This is pretty naive. Of course Al is going to say the right things when he wants to get paid and during the honeymoon period. He may be dumb, but he's got enough sense to know that.

There's a lot of due diligence that goes into making such a huge investment. If you take the player's word every time, you're going to get screwed more often than not.

Kevin Mawae recently said the way things have gone down with Albert here is no surprise to the people who played with him in Tennessee. Even London Fletcher figured out Al's M.O. after spending just a year with him: "Albert doesn't get the big picture. Even last year, if it doesn't benefit him football-wise, he doesn't like it."

You just have to talk to the right people and ask the right questions. I don't think you'd have to search too hard to find people with bad things to say about this guy.