Going against the Mob, somewhat in support of Haynesworth

[Ryman of the North]

well Larry the same could be said about the skins front office.They havent shown themselves to be trustworthy and this could kill us with free agents from now on

[grego]

well Larry the same could be said about the skins front office.They havent shown themselves to be trustworthy and this could kill us with free agents from now on

do you mean they arent trustworthy cuz they switched schemes? or something else?

[Est.1974]

The Bottom line is that Alberta CHOSE the skins based on what

.....they were going to pay him in the first 13 months of his contract.

AH had 6 weeks prior to the bonus being paid to find any 4-3 team and walk away from this organisation. I am sure plenty were interested, but not at the cost. So he stuck around for the money first. That was his #1 priority.

The guy tells the world its not about money, it's about being the best ever at his position. It that was the case, he'd now be at a 4-3 team on a poxy contract & Danny would still have his $21m.

[Sandman69]

well Larry the same could be said about the skins front office.They havent shown themselves to be trustworthy and this could kill us with free agents from now on

What has our new FO done to be dishonest? Sorry, switching coaches, who decides to change the scheme should NEVER have been a promise. If it ever was actually promised to the thief. I don't trust a word that fat **** says.

[SWFLSkins]

Umm its simple, money dont buy brains.

LMAO, I think hes an ill educated lackwit (lol at his tennessee eductaion) who is a very athletic human being who has done some stupid things through a sense of entitlement.

Hes gotten through life by being good at football and his agent is a piss poor excuse for a human being who looks the other way when Albert does stupid stuff because if he tried to get Albert to act right hed get fired and lose his meal ticket. His whole life people have probably let him get away with stuff because he is good at football, this means he is frozen in his developement as a person, probably somewhere in his teens.

I did a paper on people who come from poverty backgrounds who go to middle and upper class due to athletics and the stats are quite enlightening. Al is a classic case of someone who had nothing suddenly having the ability to have anything. and yet people are surprised when a guy who never had enough money to go to a movie on the weekend as a kid defaults on a loan? HE HAS NO CONCEPT OF MONEY OR RESPONSABILITY.

I brought this exact thing up when Arenas defaulted on a 50 grand loan after signing his massive contract.

I also think that because he is frozen somewhere in adolescence that he reacted very poorly to the team giving him an ultimatum after breaking its word to him about making him the focal point and running a 4-3 tailored to his strengths. not only was this just beyond his ability to understand but beyond his ability to accept.

Just one question, why did'nt you start with this as the thread^? (Sorry Mods for the big block of text)

[BigRuss703]

Albert Haynesworth is a Tool, If he ever wants another huge contract from another team or he wants a team to pick up his rediculously over-priced contract he'll suck it up and play and play the 3-4 for at least a year. Besides the 4-3 is the best thing for him, he gets so tired chasing quarterbacks around in the 3-4 that he can't stay on the field for any more than two consecutive plays.

Also I don't understand how anyone can defend this guy, who can't honor his contractual obligation, He has an agent and lawyers who I'm sure explained to him that any "promises" he wanted the redskins to make should have been made in writing and because that obviously didn't happen, he should be a MAN and honor his commitment. I wonder what would happen if I did this at my job? Do you think the military would allow me to break my commitment to service because I disagreed with the way my superiors were running the show? I'd be in the Brig Son

[Sandman69]

I can't wait until all Albert AintworthMuch threads go in the Around The NFL Forum!

**** that Fat ****!

[HailGreen28]

1- yes thats exactly what I am saying, Shannahan is an offense guy, he knows next to nothing about defence. worse yet he came to a team where defence was a STRENGTH on a very poor team and decided to ****can it and start over.

2- Haslett has never fielded a defence that ranked better than 12, ever. the teams who have done this swap and had it work all had GURUS doing the swap, Haslett is not a guru. hes a driver, like a journeyman QB, he is a solid motivator but not a great schemer.

3- I agree that last year our D could have been worlds better had we tweaked it a bit, our Dbs are overrated and we lacked a Sam who could cover as well as a FS. but we could have tweaked our blitz package, signed a solid sam, a serious stud at DE (either Kampman or peppers) moved Rak to DE and a cover FS and we would have addressed thatm instead we blew it all up to gamble that all the guys who dont fit can make the swap, in the meantime we pissed off our best player and now we wonder why.

I am not entirely on Alberts side, I understand tho why he is mad, I wish he would shut up and play ball but I know that he wont. believe me I wish it had gone done another way.

1. Shanny's been a head coach long enough to know more about the 3-4 than most of ES combined, including you and I. LOL.

2. Technically, Haslett had a 6th ranked defense with the Steelers in '97. And even though the stats actually regressed from there, the Saints hired him as HEAD COACH in 2000. Despite the stats, he got a better job AND was highly thought of around the league. Still is. Maybe he's the anti-Blanche, bad stats but better defense???

3. Dude, I'm not crazy about the 3-4 switch either. But the proof will be how the defense is in a couple years. And as far as the players now, how the defense performs this season. And while you expect everybody to say the right things, we aren't seeing anybody but Fat *** complaining.

And we haven't "blown it all up" for the 3-4. We got Carriker and Kemo for the 3-4. Set Rak and Wilson as a OLBs not DEs. And we have plenty of deopth at safety. That's at least as good a job as addressing our D as you posted above.

As far as "pissing off" our best player. HOW???? How did we "piss him off? Check out this article: link

(Haslett) “I think [Haynesworth] is the kind of guy where you have to sit down with him and kind of explain to him what you’re doing and where he fits in,” Haslett said. “I think he’s such a good athlete. I told him this the other day, ‘Don’t worry about what position you’re playing, you could play the nose, you could play end, you could play linebacker.’ “He’s a talented enough guy that he could probably do almost anything he wants. We’ll put him in the best position, to take advantage of the best of his qualities, and obviously what’s best for this football team. I think he would be scary if he was on a center or a weak guard.”

Now what excuse for Haynesworthless is there now?

He lied to the team and robbed us. That 21 mil could've helped us in a bunch of ways. NOBODY lied to Fat ***. That's the bottom line.

There's no excuse for Hayneworthless' behavior.

[Larry Brown #43]

well Larry the same could be said about the skins front office.They havent shown themselves to be trustworthy and this could kill us with free agents from now on

This is absurd. Even the president of the players association--whose job is to go to bat for a player, even when he's being unreasonable--has basically called Albert and idiot and his position indefensible. The idea that a bunch of players would refuse to play for the Skins because of their handling of the Albert situation is comical.

[Widget_5]

if you have ever played DT as a 3 tech you would know that playing NT is closer to playing Oline than being a 3 tech, if you havent then you just wont understand. as for a guy like dockett , he is never gonna get a 100 mil contract so its easy to say what he would do if he did.

I'm not sure if this has been clarified earlier, if so I apologise, as you've used the above twice so far, could you please explain what experience you have.

In my case I have played footbal for 20 years and I have played both DL & LB, you're right that there is a big difference, but I fail to see point you're clinging to.

I have also played in many different schemes (4-3, 4-4, 3-4, 5-2 & 46), and the one thing that never changed, regardless of the position or scheme is that football is a TEAM sport.

I have been asked to do a lot of different things, some I liked, a lot I didn't, but it didn't matter what I thought, it only mattered what the team needed from me.

London Fletcher put it best ... if you're a me guy, you're in the wrong sport (not actual quote).

Interested to hear your thoughts.

[Widget_5]

was there a point to that?

I keep my word, my point is that Danny broke his word to Albert first, I would assume that after that all bets were off.

Thanks for clearing that up for all of us ... Two wrongs do make a right ... I'm off now to pay back all the people that have ever wronged me, then claim the 'two wrongs now make a right' defense

[KDawg]

I'm not sure if this has been clarified earlier, if so I apologise, as you've used the above twice so far, could you please explain what experience you have.

In my case I have played footbal for 20 years and I have played both DL & LB, you're right that there is a big difference, but I fail to see point you're clinging to.

I have also played in many different schemes (4-3, 4-4, 3-4, 5-2 & 46), and the one thing that never changed, regardless of the position or scheme is that football is a TEAM sport.

I have been asked to do a lot of different things, some I liked, a lot I didn't, but it didn't matter what I thought, it only mattered what the team needed from me.

London Fletcher put it best ... if you're a me guy, you're in the wrong sport (not actual quote).

Interested to hear your thoughts.

Not to mention that playing NT is nothing like playing offensive line. You're trying to draw a double team, but if you can break through and make a play on a back you do it. You're not blocking linemen, you're trying to draw them to block you. It's really not that different than a 3-tech. A 3-tech drawing double teams is never bad for a team, either, as long as he's not getting driven three yards backwards. It's just a bit more difficult to double team a 3-tech because there are more down linemen attacking immediately. Which is why 3 techs are usually a bit smaller.

The difference between a 3 and a nose is often that you're playing a one-gap scheme versus a two gap scheme.

[slaga]

Fact of the matter is none of the former management team that promised Albert anything is running the show now, not even the owner. What exactly has the new management team done to lose Albert's trust? Albert isn't even giving the new management team an opportunity to show him how they want to use him. Albert has a contract to fulfill and he is definately showing up to accept his check so he should show for all mandatory functions. If Albert is so adverse to playing a 3-4, he should have had some verbage put into his contract, which he did not do.

I am waiting until training camp before I make any judgements about AH. Until then, it is just wait and see.

[SWFLSkins]

Not to mention that playing NT is nothing like playing offensive line. You're trying to draw a double team, but if you can break through and make a play on a back you do it. You're not blocking linemen, you're trying to draw them to block you. It's really not that different than a 3-tech. A 3-tech drawing double teams is never bad for a team, either, as long as he's not getting driven three yards backwards. It's just a bit more difficult to double team a 3-tech because there are more down linemen attacking immediately. Which is why 3 techs are usually a bit smaller.

The difference between a 3 and a nose is often that you're playing a one-gap scheme versus a two gap scheme.

So what we can gather from that, Fat Al did not want the additional work as a NT, thus futher diminishing his own stats and allowing others to make the plays. HUh.

And if this meant the team was more successful in the 3-4 then AH would not get his cred for his contribution. Huh. I get it, I get it, it is all about AL and his numbers and not the team's success.

[The Tris]

I'm not sure if this has been clarified earlier, if so I apologise, as you've used the above twice so far, could you please explain what experience you have.

Not to speak for Ryman, as I am sure he will chime in, but from following his discourse against the 3-4 since we announced the switch, this is what I have learned about Ryman of the North:

Ryman has played DL in both a 34 and a 43. IIRC, midway through his playing career (not sure if it was HS or college or CFL or what exact level), a new coach came in and switched from a 43 to a 34, and I believe Ryman was designated as the NT.

What followed from what he has said were injuries to him that shortened his career, and poor performance from the defense as a whole. Both he attributes to the switch to the 34.

Now I have no idea what the specifics are of the situation, but the bottomline is that Ryman has a personal experience that justifies a dislike of the 34 not simply as a scheme for our team, but as a philosophy as a whole.

So, it is a fact that for Ryman's situation the 34 was a bad idea. It is an opinion from Ryman that the 34 is a bad idea for the Redskins. His thoughts are pertinent, but also inherently biased.

[Hitman21ST]

So what we can gather from that, Fat Al did not want the additional work as a NT, thus futher diminishing his own stats and allowing others to make the plays. HUh.

And if this meant the team was more successful in the 3-4 then AH would not get his cred for his contribution. Huh. I get it, I get it, it is all about AL and his numbers and not the team's success.

:point2sky All Al's been about his entire career is what will get him the stats. I misunderstood him when he said he wanted to be the best ever. I thought he meant he wanted to be considered the best player ever at that position by giving his team the most success and racking up decent stats.

What he REALLY meant was that he just wants his name at the top of the stat sheets when all is said and done, team success be damned.

[KDawg]

So, it is a fact that for Ryman's situation the 34 was a bad idea. It is an opinion from Ryman that the 34 is a bad idea for the Redskins. His thoughts are pertinent, but also inherently biased.

This speaks volumes about his opinion on Haynesworth and the role of a nose tackle.

Now it all makes sense, especially coming from that perspective. Bias or not, it makes sense.

[Taylor4Life]

I had a crazy dream last night that AH did a total 180 and was OK with the 3-4. In my dream he lined up at the LE position rather than NT. I can dream can't I?

[Ryman of the North]

I'm not sure if this has been clarified earlier, if so I apologise, as you've used the above twice so far, could you please explain what experience you have.

In my case I have played footbal for 20 years and I have played both DL & LB, you're right that there is a big difference, but I fail to see point you're clinging to.

I have also played in many different schemes (4-3, 4-4, 3-4, 5-2 & 46), and the one thing that never changed, regardless of the position or scheme is that football is a TEAM sport.

I have been asked to do a lot of different things, some I liked, a lot I didn't, but it didn't matter what I thought, it only mattered what the team needed from me.

London Fletcher put it best ... if you're a me guy, you're in the wrong sport (not actual quote).

Interested to hear your thoughts.

I Have played football since I was 7 years old (we had a lot of americans in the small town im from because of the oilfield) honestly tho, I played QB until high school at which time I was moved to OLB/ DE because I was 6-3 250. So previous to that I wouldnt have known the difference. in my time I have played QB, FB, RB, TE, OG, OT, SB, DE, DT , OLB, MLB, and punted. I am flat out telling you that NT and 3 tech are different worlds period. anyone who says otherwise is a moron who has never played both.

I moved to 3 tech DT in my last season in high school and its where I also played in College and semi pro, in 2000 I led the Alberta football League in sacks and tackles while we played a 4-3 double eagle defence. (ends out wide) I would jump between End and tackle and even did a little punting and played Oline. I was 6-4 and 3/4 and weighed 325 pounds (down from 365) and at the time I ran a 4.89 40 yard dash. The Edmonton Icemen at the time had only won 2 games in 2001 2-8) but we lost almost every one by one score usually 7-0 or 14-7 (our offence was the worst of any team ive ever played on the two games we won were won by myself scoring on a fumble return and the other on an int return). That season I won the most Valuable lineman in the league award after leading the league in Sacks and tackles.

We hired a new coach who decided that we should run a 3-4 because I was much bigger than most linemen in the league, He never bothered to watch film or he would have seen that as big as I was I was all about technique and first step, double teams by a guard and RB often would fail because id already be in the backfield not just by overpowering people but by out quicking them.

Anyway we went from #2 in defence to #7 out of 8 teams, I lasted 4 games in, I managed to still put up some good stats with 4 sacks and 21 tackles but that was a far cry from what I had been averaging as a 3 tech. more importantly the TEAM tanked because once I was out injured with a shoulder, knee and ankle injury as well as a broken hand, the defence went right south and we started getting blown out with regularity. I suffered from being on the field more (more sustained drives meant more reps) from being double teamed by linemen on almost every play and from getting physically beat up.

I figured it cost me at least 2 years off of my effective playing career. if I could go back I would have told the coach to go screw his hat.

In University we ran a 4-3 for most of the year and then the DC decided that he would take advantage of my size and at practice he tried to install a 3-4 I told him why it wouldnt work but went along with it for a while, of course I reinjured my shoulder and that ended that experiment, when i recovered in time for the playoffs he wanted to do it again and I flat out refused.

I have been the DC for the semi pro team I play for now for 5 seasons, we have never ranked lower than #2 and we have been very efective despite being pretty undersized on the line, im nowhere near as mobile anymore after an achilles and knee injury but I can still play the NT spot in a 4-3 with short spurts of 3 tech, we have won 3 national championships in 7 years running a modified 4-3 defence.

Now before people start mouthing off about how selfish I am, Ive played injured, played hurt, played multiple positions and this season I am coming off broken ribs from last year and ive put on weight (about 335 atm) we just had 2 olinemen go down with serious knee injuries and I played the entire game at Guard, We averaged 10 yards a carry after that so now I will most likely be playing Oline for the rest of the season despite not liking it.because I like winning Ill do it, and tbh playing Oline is far easier on the body than playing DT. but then again im not getting paid a hundred million. I dont blame Albert at all for not wnating to play in a 3-4 or for collecting a 21 million bonus that was owed, what I blame Albert for is acting like an idiot and handling it very poorly.

as for the 3-4, if you have the proper personelle it can be a very solid scheme, but it takes a very experienced coach to evaluate 3-4 players. just being big and strong and athletic does not mean you will be a good NT or an effective one, and looking at our roster I dont see a NT (maake is coming off an achilles tear) I dont see a true 3-4 DE other than Carriker and perhaps daniels who is old and fragile now. and dont even get me started on our LB's.

[brianm23]

I am waiting until training camp before I make any judgements about AH. Until then, it is just wait and see.

Just curious. After his past and everything he's done up to now, why are you still waiting before you make a judgment? I think it's a no brainer at this point.

[KDawg]

Ryman, I only take issue in one part with you above post.

You say, "but it takes a very experienced coach to evaluate 3-4 players" implying that Shanahan and Haslett aren't experienced enough, yet you take a crack at your evaluation at the end.

I respect what you do/have done, big time. But I'm not sure you're more qualified than they are to make those decisions. I know I'm certainly not.

[Ryman of the North]

Ryman, I only take issue in one part with you above post.

You say, "but it takes a very experienced coach to evaluate 3-4 players" implying that Shanahan and Haslett aren't experienced enough, yet you take a crack at your evaluation at the end.

I respect what you do/have done, big time. But I'm not sure you're more qualified than they are to make those decisions. I know I'm certainly not.

I honestly dont think Im able to evaluate expertly without more extensive film, based on what I have seen I would stand by my opinions , but I also dont think that Shannahans opinion about defence is any more valid than mine and he has pretty much borne that out. The man is brilliant at offence tho.Haslett at least has been a coordinator (albeit a marginal one) at the pro level and at the risk of sounding like a dcik, I would stack my opinions against his. What I have found is that often, obsessive fans who are knowledgable about football often know as much or more than some coaches.

My experience coaching has been limited to high school, college (as a dline coach) and semi pro as a coord and dline coach and linebackers coach. and one year as a scout for the CFL. I have given talks at the football alberta coaching clinics mostly dealing with odd and even 4 man fronts and how they relate to linebacker responsabilities and coverages. I also am considered to be an expert on whats called the rocket offence in canadian football and I actually wrote that chapter of the coaching handbook for football albertas level 3 coaching. Canadian football is a lot like yours but its more complicated than simply adding an extra man pell mell lol.

[Widget_5]

I Have played football since I was 7 years old (we had a lot of americans in the small town im from because of the oilfield) honestly tho, I played QB until high school at which time I was moved to OLB/ DE because I was 6-3 250. So previous to that I wouldnt have known the difference. in my time I have played QB, FB, RB, TE, OG, OT, SB, DE, DT , OLB, MLB, and punted. I am flat out telling you that NT and 3 tech are different worlds period. anyone who says otherwise is a moron who has never played both.

I moved to 3 tech DT in my last season in high school and its where I also played in College and semi pro, in 2000 I led the Alberta football League in sacks and tackles while we played a 4-3 double eagle defence. (ends out wide) I would jump between End and tackle and even did a little punting and played Oline. I was 6-4 and 3/4 and weighed 325 pounds (down from 365) and at the time I ran a 4.89 40 yard dash. The Edmonton Icemen at the time had only won 2 games in 2001 2-8) but we lost almost every one by one score usually 7-0 or 14-7 (our offence was the worst of any team ive ever played on the two games we won were won by myself scoring on a fumble return and the other on an int return). That season I won the most Valuable lineman in the league award after leading the league in Sacks and tackles.

We hired a new coach who decided that we should run a 3-4 because I was much bigger than most linemen in the league, He never bothered to watch film or he would have seen that as big as I was I was all about technique and first step, double teams by a guard and RB often would fail because id already be in the backfield not just by overpowering people but by out quicking them.

Anyway we went from #2 in defence to #7 out of 8 teams, I lasted 4 games in, I managed to still put up some good stats with 4 sacks and 21 tackles but that was a far cry from what I had been averaging as a 3 tech. more importantly the TEAM tanked because once I was out injured with a shoulder, knee and ankle injury as well as a broken hand, the defence went right south and we started getting blown out with regularity. I suffered from being on the field more (more sustained drives meant more reps) from being double teamed by linemen on almost every play and from getting physically beat up.

I figured it cost me at least 2 years off of my effective playing career. if I could go back I would have told the coach to go screw his hat.

In University we ran a 4-3 for most of the year and then the DC decided that he would take advantage of my size and at practice he tried to install a 3-4 I told him why it wouldnt work but went along with it for a while, of course I reinjured my shoulder and that ended that experiment, when i recovered in time for the playoffs he wanted to do it again and I flat out refused.

I have been the DC for the semi pro team I play for now for 5 seasons, we have never ranked lower than #2 and we have been very efective despite being pretty undersized on the line, im nowhere near as mobile anymore after an achilles and knee injury but I can still play the NT spot in a 4-3 with short spurts of 3 tech, we have won 3 national championships in 7 years running a modified 4-3 defence.

Now before people start mouthing off about how selfish I am, Ive played injured, played hurt, played multiple positions and this season I am coming off broken ribs from last year and ive put on weight (about 335 atm) we just had 2 olinemen go down with serious knee injuries and I played the entire game at Guard, We averaged 10 yards a carry after that so now I will most likely be playing Oline for the rest of the season despite not liking it.because I like winning Ill do it, and tbh playing Oline is far easier on the body than playing DT. but then again im not getting paid a hundred million. I dont blame Albert at all for not wnating to play in a 3-4 or for collecting a 21 million bonus that was owed, what I blame Albert for is acting like an idiot and handling it very poorly.

as for the 3-4, if you have the proper personelle it can be a very solid scheme, but it takes a very experienced coach to evaluate 3-4 players. just being big and strong and athletic does not mean you will be a good NT or an effective one, and looking at our roster I dont see a NT (maake is coming off an achilles tear) I dont see a true 3-4 DE other than Carriker and perhaps daniels who is old and fragile now. and dont even get me started on our LB's.

Hi Ryman,

Firstly, Kudos to you dude, very impressive.

Secondly, Thanks for the info, as I said I asked about your experience as you had mentioned twice about 'if you've played before' as I was just curious.

Thirdly, I wasn't questioning your team loyalty or commitment.

I appreciate there is a huge difference between a 3 tech and a nose (as I also said, I have played both as well) and I understand that he may be upset and anxious about the change.

I don't think anyone can dispute that he has a right to be anxious, but we're in agreement that what has annoyed everybody is the way he has handled himself.

The worst thing is that Albert doesn't even know what the scheme is all about, as he hasn't even showed up.

As a DC yourself, surely if you made a decision to change your D and one of your players didn't want to be a part of it, you would at least want your player to talk to you about it so you can discuss it.

So I can agree with you that Albert has a right to be anxious about playing in a new scheme, but that's about it.

Although, there's no rule that say's we need to agree.

[nemocystem]

invalid argument...

whispered promises do not a contract make......

he signed on the dotted line, THE END.

[slaga]

Just curious. After his past and everything he's done up to now, why are you still waiting before you make a judgment? I think it's a no brainer at this point.

I have been a disgruntled employee. That never stopped me from putting my best foot forward and getting my job done the right way even though I was not happy. So far Albert has accepted the money he was owed from the contract he signed with the Skins. He Skipped OTA's which are voluntary and 1 mandatory mini-camp. I really don't care if he wants to be traded or not. If he shows up in shape and does his best once he gets here, and gets the job done even though he doesn't like it, so be it. He played about the same percentage of snaps for the Skins as he did previously for the Titans. Blache's system required Albert to play gap filler where the Titans allowed him to freelance so his drop in stats do not seem as bad to me as they do to others here. Hopefully Haslett will utilize his talents better than Blache.

Until he reports out of shape, refuses to go to training camp, holds out, buys his way out of DC, gets traded, steals MY lunch money, etc. I will withhold judgement. He is childish and selfish but the worst thing he has done this offseason is skip 1 mandatory mini-camp and demand to be traded. Don't get me wrong, I do not like him as a person but as a player, he hasn't actually quit yet so until then...

In case you don't realize it, I am a glass is half full kind of person. Even though the Skins were down 13-0 on Monday night with about 4 minutes to play (and the Skins were playing horribly that night), I was watching the game intently when Brunell threw not 1 but 2 deep passes...