Going against the Mob, somewhat in support of Haynesworth

[grego]

didnt read all 12 pages, but my opinion about how he is played is this-

logic would indicate that the coaching staff knows where to play him where he is most effective. thats why he wont play safety, corner or QB. you think mcnabb can come in here and say, "ya know, i think i'd be a good linebacker" an extreme example, but the point is, the player does not run the team. he is paid to play where the coach tells him, and the coach is paid to win games, which is what this is all about.

the coaches put him in the best position to help the team win- period. if he doesnt want to play there, then he is not interested in winning. (and of course he shouldnt have taken the money april 1st.)

taking the money makes him all about him (and the money) and not about winning football games, which is what he's actually paid to do.

[LD0506]

So basically this whole argument comes down to the "Well HE did it first!!" defense that we all tried.........oh.... in kindergarten? That's great, should be upheld all the way to the Supreme Court

[DeadExField]

don't care about the morality of any side. Point blank is, if you take the cash, you're committed. If Haynesworth didn't want in, why take the bonus cash?

[Ryman of the North]

In response to stevemcqueen stating that the 3-4 was

You state:

I'm not sure, but it sounds to me like you are of the opinion that the 3-4's time has come and gone.:whoknows:

no to almost anyone that me expressing that I disagree that the 3-4 was a more modern and effective defence especially not with the "proof" being shown.

[Ryman of the North]

So that makes it okay to sit down with the new GM and the new HC and look them in the eye and take a check to the bank with the promise to be a good team player. Never mentioning this speculation that you are basing your thread on at that time.

And your saying because Vinny and Snyder told him how he was going to be used originally that when the new HC was hired that did not changed anything including his expectations?

This defies all logic I have ever encountered in the workplace going back to 13years old mowing lawns.

Like I said, you have never been in the position to dictate terms the way Albert is, I somehow doubt that in your life you are extremely superlative at something marketable. Therefore in your relationship with "the man" you are in the same boat as 99% of the population.

Albert took the money agreed to in his contract, he got the money simply by being on the roster yes this was a dick move but it was a 21 million dollar dick move. It was also a dick move to promise that you will put someone in position to succeed and then hire a guy whose never had a #10 def let alone a #4.

Its rather simple, if a normal to solid player pulled what Albert did youd all be laughing but because the amount of money was obscene its somehow worse. the truth is that once they broke their word to him, he obviously had the attitude Screw them Ill get mine and they can pound sand? and unlike some I can understand, I am certain that in his mind he though " they wanna force me to play in a 3-4?, I'll get what I can while I can screw them."

[KDawg]

Didn't JC #17 say something was supposed to go down today? Damnit. Knew it wouldn't. Who wants anything to do with him at this point?

[Ryman of the North]

if we get anything decent offered to us I will be amazed. tbh thats the one thing about this that really bugs me, we will get no value for the best 4-3 dt in the league.

[SWFLSkins]

Like I said, you have never been in the position to dictate terms the way Albert is, I somehow doubt that in your life you are extremely superlative at something marketable. Therefore in your relationship with "the man" you are in the same boat as 99% of the population.

You somehow doubt that I am extremely superlative at something marketable?, well you doubt wrong my friend. And I am not tooting my own horn like an internet tough guy. I walk away from contracts all the time, I value a relationship and sometimes I don't feel the love. But I don't take the check and then not do the work as contracted, no matter the margin. I have morals.

And while the numbers are considerably lower I negotiate contracts at a higher quantity than that of an NFL player. Imagine if they had to contract on a per game basis, that is what I do. Maybe my reputation is of more value to me in future negotiations because of that.

I have no problem asking for what I am worth, and neither did he. One big diff though, I actually deliver as promised. Evidenced by the fact that in this economy I still have as much work as I want. When I look someone in the eye and shake their hands, it is as good as the ink on the paper.

Where is the value in Haynesworth word now? So based on that, who is more successful AH or Me? I guess I already know your answer.

BTW, I will be working next week for the check I already cashed, he won't.

[mistertim]

I am in partial agreement with Ryman.

Here is something that is not being mentioned. Isn't it possible the Shanahan and Allen basically orchestrated this from the beginning? I mean' date=' as soon as I heard the numbers 3-4 in that order, I thought, "Haynesworth is gonna be pissed." Surely they knew this too.

I don't think they ever really wanted him here. So, they decided to push the crazy man's buttons.

As for the player criticism...NFL players are sheep. By the time you reach this level, you have been forced to conform for so many years that it's next to impossible to even conceive of challenging management.[/quote']

I have some weird feelings about this whole thing. People on both sides seemingly changing their stories ex post facto, etc. For example, this whole time we have pretty much heard from the coaching staff that they want to move AH around to maximize his abilities; maybe some NT but also lots of DE (hell, I think in one interview Haslett even said he might play OLB sometimes and rush). AH said pretty much the same thing and said he had no problem with it because of that.

Now, things are seemingly getting twisted around as to who said what and when. The other day there was an article in the WaPo which quoted Shanny saying the he told AH that he could leave without the money, but if he took the money he expected him to be the best NOSE TACKLE in the NFL. Huh? That is the first time we've heard anything like that from the coaches. So now he is saying that they told him before that they wanted him to be a NT? Even though this is the very first we've ever heard something that declarative about it?

I'm not saying Shanny is lying or anyone else is, but there is no way to know what kind of crap is going on or has been going on behind the scenes...possibly for a while now. There are things about this whole situation that just seem a bit fishy to me. Unfortunately we are likely never to know what truly happened or when.

[SoulSkin]

Shanahan, according to Shanahan, said that he told AH that he expected him to be the best football player he could be...nt, de, or safety (which, I think was a thinly veiled shot at Lardsworth). He just said NT first.

[mistertim]

Shanahan, according to Shanahan, said that he told AH that he expected him to be the best football player he could be...nt, de, or safety (which, I think was a thinly veiled shot at Lardsworth). He just said NT first.

Ok. I'm just going by the article I read that directly quoted him as saying he told AH that if he took the money he expected him to be the best Nose Tackle (those specific words) in the NFL. I posted the link in another thread; if you really don't believe me I'll find it again. Perhaps it was taken out of context or some of the quote was missing, but it seemed relatively clear to me.

[SoulSkin]

Ok. I'm just going by the article I read that directly quoted him as saying he told AH that if he took the money he expected him to be the best Nose Tackle (those specific words) in the NFL. I posted the link in another thread; if you really don't believe me I'll find it again. Perhaps it was taken out of context or some of the quote was missing, but it seemed relatively clear to me.

I'm not trying to discredit anything you said. I just remembered seeing the video of his comments a few times, and I was recounting Shanahan's comments to the best of my recollection.

I'm positive he mentioned he expected him to be the best NT, DE, or safety (he'd have to lose some weight...that was the veiled shot I mentioned).

[scottie]

I would actually agree with the op in some ways.

Calling somebody an outright thief would mandate a criminal charge, which obviously won't happen in a NFL contract dispute. He was handed the money and he's trying to keep it.

Give it to him and let him walk for all I care at this point. Let this situation (hopefully) be the last major contract mistake that Snyder makes. I find myself still wanting Snyder to burn a bit on his mistakes as an owner. I really don't care enough about that 20 million dollars to hold Haynesworth personally responsible for the entire situation.

[mel25]

so are you sayin he should be able to keep the money AND leave? or are you sayin we should stay in the 4-3 because he wants us too? or am i leavin somethin out?

[scottie]

so are you sayin he should be able to keep the money AND leave? or are you sayin we should stay in the 4-3 because he wants us too? or am i leavin somethin out?

You're not responding to me, but I wanted to respond to you.

He earned the money as much as Deion Sanders. Let him keep it for all I care at this point. The only thing I want in the future out of our new regime is to never give such ridiculous contracts to players again.

Shanahan and Bruce tried their best to make something out of that money, and they will continue to try. It's not on them, and it's not necessarily on Haynesworth, either. He signed up to be on a different team than what we currently are.

[mel25]

You're not responding to me, but I wanted to respond to you.

He earned the money as much as Deion Sanders. Let him keep it for all I care at this point. The only thing I want in the future out of our new regime is to never give such ridiculous contracts to players again.

Shanahan and Bruce tried their best to make something out of that money, and they will continue to try. It's not on them, and it's not necessarily on Haynesworth, either. He signed up to be on a different team than what we currently are.

that's fair, but would you say that you are in support of haynesworth? if he gets away with it, so be it. but like others have said, if he wants out that bad, give the money back. if he wants the money that bad, play in the 3-4. it's just funny to me that he's trying to get both. he might get it, but it's pretty bold to even try. even the timing of the statement was bold, why wait until the day of the manditory mini camp?

[Arsenic]

Whatever.. AH did something cruddy. If you wanta back him then by all means do so. However, dont expect much support here.

[bedlamVR]

Like I said, you have never been in the position to dictate terms the way Albert is, I somehow doubt that in your life you are extremely superlative at something marketable. Therefore in your relationship with "the man" you are in the same boat as 99% of the population.

Albert took the money agreed to in his contract, he got the money simply by being on the roster yes this was a dick move but it was a 21 million dollar dick move. It was also a dick move to promise that you will put someone in position to succeed and then hire a guy whose never had a #10 def let alone a #4.

Its rather simple, if a normal to solid player pulled what Albert did youd all be laughing but because the amount of money was obscene its somehow worse. the truth is that once they broke their word to him, he obviously had the attitude Screw them Ill get mine and they can pound sand? and unlike some I can understand, I am certain that in his mind he though " they wanna force me to play in a 3-4?, I'll get what I can while I can screw them."

It doesn't surprise me the people who are aligning with you .

The mob mentality you talk about is nothing compared to the asshattery that spewed bile against Jason Campbell who did nothing but try to be the consumate professional and good team mate .

Albert Haynesworth is in no position to dictate terms . He is a player, a cog, in a much bigger scheme . It is like my left foot deciding it no longer wants to be my foot because it disagrees with my choice of footwear .

Bottom line . He took the money . He is under contract . He has NO leverage at all .

People keep saying the Redskins are not going to be able to get the $21 million bonus back I don't see that is a problem . In a normal year big Al would take up a roster space and valuable cap $$$$ but this season . The season with no cap there is no reason for the Skins to do anything . As long as they let him into the facility it sounds like the players have already turned on him so no one will care if big Al is practicing with the scout team . It is his career he is pissing away . If you remember Dan Snyder offered to by Coles a 50 inch plasma so he could watch the season at home . I am sure he wouldn't mind making an example of Albert Haynesworth .

IF anything big Al needs to think about how much that $21 million meens to him and if it is an issue about being played out of position then it is a small price to pay to ensure you can play in a system somewhere he can be the dominating force he wants to be .

LaVar Arrington did the same thing he ended up paying millions to be released .

He talked about being the next Reggie White but he will become a forgotten man . 2009 may be the last time he plays meaningful football .

The thing you fail to notice is that ever other player last year played in a 4-3 were they lied to ? London Fletcher is the consummate 4-3 MLB and he didn't throw his toys out the pram . He came to the Redskins to play in Gregg Williams defense . Was he lied to ? The players coming out to criticize Haynesworth are sheep they are professionals . To try and defend him is incomprehensible ....

[bedlamVR]

Didn't JC #17 say something was supposed to go down today? Damnit. Knew it wouldn't. Who wants anything to do with him at this point?

When was JC17 ever right ? Oh yes I remember when we traded Chris Cooley to the Patrio... oh wait that never happened . People keep backing him up saying he is an insider and to be honest he touts himself as that but I cannot remember a single thing he has predicted that actually happened ..

[MustangSteve]

I feel so sorry for Haynesworth having to go up against smaller centers who he could completely blow up into the face of QB's. In case you didn't notice, he was double teamed by them many times anyway.The man got 21 million and just doesn't want to work anymore, that's all this boils down to! I'm not feeling sorry for his lazy ass period!

[MustangSteve]

Whatever.. AH did something cruddy. If you wanta back him then by all means do so. However, dont expect much support here.

:point2sky This man speaks for us all!

[MaineSkin]

football is a team support....period. No DT or NT is remembered without a cchampionship. Albert needs to understand that he is not the only onne on the team with talent and him by himself is not a good defense. The hardest thing in life is to base decisions on the greater good and not yourself. Now, he wll not be traded and will not play this year. Shanahan will make sure they will never play against him and possible never pllay agan. Albert misses a year he will be worth nothing. How do you think this helps the CBA?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

When was JC17 ever right ? Oh yes I remember when we traded Chris Cooley to the Patrio... oh wait that never happened . People keep backing him up saying he is an insider and to be honest he touts himself as that but I cannot remember a single thing he has predicted that actually happened ..

Things he heard haven't panned out, but I still believe he gets information.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Snyder is the worst owner in sports. This unfortunate scenario is a direct result of Danny's incompetence. and short-sightedness. I'm not here to defend AH (he's not really defensible at this point) but don't fool yourself about where the real problem is.

[SKINchiefer]

If you go back and listen to Hayne****'s press conference for his signing, he sounded as if he didn't give a **** about anything other than his money and scrilla. Even his "even if I'm not making the play, others around me will" didn't sound legit. He is a walking, talking example of a piece of bull....